DVD Player Core?

[hiddenbyleaves]

Would it be possible to have a fpga core of a dvd player which loads up iso files? It would be cool to load up some old discs and see them in rgb on a crt.

[Bas]

Possible? Sure. But don't hold your breath for one. Other options are far easier. Like getting an old player for next to nothing second hand.

[dshadoff]

I think that anybody who has the skills to write this would already have several more interesting projects lined up before looking at something like this.

[Hodor]

I don't see the point. Today's DVDs players are cheap and easy to find.

[Slipard]

There is one planned, but it won't be released after the HDMI HDR Laserdisc core.

And, yes, I am just kidding here.

If you want RGB out of a DVD on a CRT, your best bet is just to buy a DVD player and use a RGB cable to your CRT screen.

Although, truth be told, a DVD player core would be a good way to someone to introduce himself to FPGA programming.

[TLPD-AVW]

Couldn't a generic DVD player core be a stepping stone towards a Nuon core? Or is Nuon's CPU too powerful to be replicated on DE-10 Nano?

[alanswx]

We actually do need an mpeg2 player for laserdisc and things.

[dshadoff]

Laserdisc did not use mpeg2 - although somebody extracting the data from laserdisc may want to compress it and could conceivably choose that.
Motion JPEG cores already exists, and is suitable for video of the laserdisc era (and is also a compression which was not used on laserdisc).

But having said all this, a DVD player includes a lot more than just a video decoder. It seems like the perfect "industrial, effort with no profound feeling of accomplishment" type chore.

[hiddenbyleaves]

Maybe its just me but I think it would be immeasurably cool to be able to load up an iso of Jaws or Halloween with the menus and special features etc. on an old tv from the MiSTer. Would it be a difficult thing to do relative to the console/arcade stuff?

[Slipard]

Laserdisc did not use mpeg2 - although somebody extracting the data from laserdisc may want to compress it and could conceivably choose that.
Motion JPEG cores already exists, and is suitable for video of the laserdisc era (and is also a compression which was not used on laserdisc).

But having said all this, a DVD player includes a lot more than just a video decoder. It seems like the perfect "industrial, effort with no profound feeling of accomplishment" type chore.

MPEG2 was used in many emulators for games like Daphne for playing laserdisc games using official DVDs of the animation parts.
So you actually can justify developing a DVD player core for MiSTer, in order to get all the LD games playable, as they either got an official DVD release or the LD parts have been captured using MPEG2.
Obvisously, you wouldn't need a full featured DVD player for these games, but once the users will se LD games playable, you can bet many will ask for the full package.

And, in the end, I rest my case about the DVD player as a way to learn FPGA programming. It would very well be an accomplishment for someone programming his first core.

Maybe its just me but I think it would be immeasurably cool to be able to load up an iso of Jaws or Halloween with the menus and special features etc. on an old tv from the MiSTer. Would it be a difficult thing to do relative to the console/arcade stuff?

Difficult, not really, and I could see it as a way to try turn MiSTer into another Kodi, so giving it some thought, it could be an interesting direction, maybe not porting Kodi to the MiSTer, but turning the MiSTer as the one stop TV box for everything, with a full GUI, ability to stream video and music, of course the video game cores we are almost all here for, etc.

But this is quite a full Pandora box I am talking about.
(And, nope, I don't mean Pandora box as the shitty emulation boxes, but the original one, quite more dangerous.)

[dshadoff]

I never said it couldn't - or even shouldn't - be done.
You are free to work on it - the most motivated person would be a person who has a particular use case in mind.

[Moondandy]

Well I suspect we will get some form of video playing functionality in the not too distant future. It is needed to be able to make a core for the Action Max https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Action_Max

The Sega Saturn has a VCD card that allowed it to play VCDs (this was mpeg1 240 video on a CD, a cheap precursor to the DVD that was popular in Asia).
https://segaretro.org/Video_CD_Card
Whether someone will add this to the Saturn core once it arrives, and if there would even be space, is a question. However it does also provide improved cut scenes for several Japanese games that support it.

With a DVD player, I wonder if a decent audio player would be the first step - i.e. a core for a higher end CD player.

Has anyone looked to see if there are any FPGA CD or DVD player integrations people have done elsewhere for a hobby or university course etc.? If so you could potentially look at porting that to MiSTer.

[Slipard]

I never said it couldn't - or even shouldn't - be done.

Me neither.

[hiddenbyleaves]

Mentions of Kodi or all in one set top boxes evoke a kind of messy, convoluted stretched out thing which I think people recoil from in terms of the MiSTer. Maybe I am mistaken but there is a real purity to it at the moment which people might feel protective about. Some of the reactions to the recent retro arch news point to this. However I do think that a recreation of a well regarded dvd player or high end cd player would fit in.

Is there some other easy way to play an iso on an old tv through rgb scart?

[LamerDeluxe]

For a CD-i core, an MPEG-1 decoder would also be handy.

[MiSTer_Kirk]

Is there some other easy way to play an iso on an old tv through rgb scart?

But why would anyone want to do that ?
Not trying to be funny, or anything. But, for years, we've been asking for better quality, higher definition movies, and now we have them with Blu-Ray Disks, or H265-encoded rips, or remastered movies using original celluloid transfers and computer processing for removing noise/grain/colour correction...etc... Why would you want to go back to low resolution movie watching ?
Bizarre. I do understand wanting a laserdisk mpeg core for Daphne games, that would be good to have Space Ace, or Dragon's Lair...etc..

[FoxbatStargazer]

Not everything out there has been re-released, and it may not be trivial to connect your computer to a 15khz CRT to view the DVDs in their proper interlaced format. This is a little like telling someone to play modern ports/remakes of games on flat panel instead of using a Mister with CRT. Granted far more movies get re-released because its easy to print but there are still many that do not.

I'm not sure how much sense programming the Mister makes vs. picking up readily available DVD players but there is definitely value in playing old formats on their intended displays, same as we use the Mister for old games on CRT.

[MiSTer_Kirk]

But their original format wouldn't have been interlaced DVD, it would have been 35mm/70mm celluloid film. And then there are the aspect ratios such as anamorphic, Academy format, Super 35, etc... viewing these on a 4:3 CRT TV isn't how it was meant to be viewed.
I mean, I wouldn't watch Star Trek the Motion Picture on a poor quality VHS rip, on a CRT. I would watch it on Blu-ray which was taken from the 35mm print, and in it's theatrical 2.35:1 aspect ratio - that was how it was supposed to be viewed.
I'm not trying to create an argument here, everyone is fully entitled to the way they view content. But surely there are better systems out there that still don't have a core, such as Philips CDi, 3DO, lots of 80s machines. I would love to see a GPU like the 3DFX Voodoo, or even S3 Virge.

[dmckean]

You're forgetting about the countless number of TV series that were recorded on video tape (like every single Norman Lear sitcom for instance). 15Khz interlaced video is their native format. These shows often look like crap on your HDTV but look OK on a CRT.

[Slipard]

Mentions of Kodi or all in one set top boxes evoke a kind of messy, convoluted stretched out thing which I think people recoil from in terms of the MiSTer. Maybe I am mistaken but there is a real purity to it at the moment which people might feel protective about. Some of the reactions to the recent retro arch news point to this. However I do think that a recreation of a well regarded dvd player or high end cd player would fit in.

I hear your concern here and you are quite right to bring it up on the table.
But I believe there is also an easy way to avoid such issues: options to activate parts or not.

Kodi is going too far, I believe. But a simple GUI with a small series of options you can activate ou deactivate in the settings would be nice:
- Video Games
- Movies
- Music
- Pictures
- Settings

And you would be done. Only want to play video games, then, in the Settings, you just activate the Video Games and it boots straight to video games. No menu before, the MiSTer you love is kept intact. It can even be the default settings, so that most users don't even have to know and think about it.

Add a second menu, then your startup is these two icons.
Add all, you have the four icons on startup and that's all (with a Settings small icon always available somewhere, like in a corner).
A button could be kept pushed at startup to directly go to the selected core.
And, for each core, things would be kept simple, by example for Video Games, the list of cores available. For Movies, the list of Movies available.

But that would need a dedicated team passionate about having a simple yet effective GUI maintained (although, once done, there wouldn't be the need for much maintenance).

Most importantly: I really see that happening in a distant future, like when most video games cores are done, ie. all known issues are closed, timings accurate, etc.
Or maybe sooner if a dedicated team would tackle the job, understanding that messy and convoluted are not acceptable. But I would be quite surprised to see Sorg allow for such a thing.

Is there some other easy way to play an iso on an old tv through rgb scart?

Yes: a Kodi box.
No, seriously, playing ISO can be done with a multimedia box, Kodi or anything else, like Chinese cheapest, that supports ISO. Can be quite cheap, so there is not really a need for a DVD player in MiSTer for just that usage. But, along with a Daphne port, that would be nice to have, almost mandatory, like the ability to just play all the DVD cinematics without playing the game (there's a crowd for that).
Mind you, Road Avenger on the Mega CD even had an option to do that.

[retrorepair]

Is there some other easy way to play an iso on an old tv through rgb scart?

But why would anyone want to do that ?
Not trying to be funny, or anything. But, for years, we've been asking for better quality, higher definition movies, and now we have them with Blu-Ray Disks, or H265-encoded rips, or remastered movies using original celluloid transfers and computer processing for removing noise/grain/colour correction...etc... Why would you want to go back to low resolution movie watching ?
Bizarre. I do understand wanting a laserdisk mpeg core for Daphne games, that would be good to have Space Ace, or Dragon's Lair...etc..

I have a box set of GamesMaster on DVD (classic UK video game themed show) and playing these on a CRT is almost like watching them live again.

The CRT hides a lot of the encoding artifacts (these are taken from VHS so there's a lot, despite best efforts).

I've tried watching this box set on a LCD and it's just painful.

At the moment I've got a DVD player hooked up to my 29" Trinitron and it looks great, but it's a slow, old, bulky item I'd be happy to resign to the loft in favour of a media player on MiSTer.

FYI btw, what makes a DVD/CD player high end is the DAC and it's output stage. Yes, a lot of the quality does come from the ICs doing the decoding but essentially, it's irrelevant if the DAC etc are crap.

If it were any incentive at all, a Nuon player would give it some sort of legitimacy. I've never played Tempest 3k but I'd LOVE to

[hiddenbyleaves]

My fault, maybe I was not clear enough. I have no intention of watching Star Trek: The Motion Picture

However, I might actually be interested in looking at the treatment it got on DVD. The menus, menu transitions, special features, menu music and sfx, hidden content etc. I even might take a look at some awful pan and scan while I slowly shake my head. People worked on these things and designed them. The industry at the time was crazy, unsure about whether people would buy movies again they packed the discs with crazy stuff. I cant help it I am interested in it. I am not saying people should stop doing what they are doing and do this, just that I personally think it would be cool to be able to look at and archive.

[hiddenbyleaves]

I found this:

https://twitter.com/ultraembedded/statu ... 6191576064

[MiSTer_Kirk]

I have a box set of GamesMaster on DVD (classic UK video game themed show) and playing these on a CRT is almost like watching them live again.

Me too. I also have them on VHS, and they're the original recordings I made back in the 90s, along with an almost complete Bad Influence, Bits, Computer Show on Sky, etc.. But, I'm not hankering for a watch on their original medium, I actually want to archive them to my PC and then try and remaster them with avisynth and some clever filters and scripts. I would die for copies of the original master tapes, if they're still intact.

However, I might actually be interested in looking at the treatment it got on DVD.

Then buy a cheap DVD player, it will do the job as it was intended.

[redsteakraw]

Just saying many of the later models of DVD players had HDMI and Component out so getting crystal clear video was never really a problem for even some of the cheaper DVD players. Being a gamer You also had the PS2(component / RGB output) and the XBox and the PS3 which added Blu Ray and the XBox 360 which also plays DVDs pretty good. Seeing as the MiSTer and FPGA systems may not be able to replicate the PS2 or XBox anytime soon and both of them have great homebrew and soft / hard mods such as backing up and playing games off of a hard disk or network drive I would suggest killing two birds with one stone and get / mod a PS2 or XBox. Mind you XBox has XBMC and can run a host of emulators. Also the PS3 and XBox 360 have both Digital and analog outputs making them match some of the same outputs supported by MiSTer.

[LamerDeluxe]

PS2 Doesn't do RGB output with DVDs, you'll get a green display.

[elvis]

Is there some other easy way to play an iso on an old tv through rgb scart?

Caveat: I work in film/TV/media as well as digital perseveration (amongst other industries).

DVD is MPEG2 compressed, but more importantly 4:2:0 YUV and interlaced. There's very little to be gained in playing these via RGB/SCART over S-Video, and in some cases it's even worse as the natural smoothing offered by "worse" connections helps. There's a reason CVBS and S-Video we popular connectors, despite the fact that it somewhat ruins the look of our old games. Likewise interlacing is an abomination in old games, but perfectly fine for video displayed on a CRT and viewed from a distance.

Additionally, there's no low latency requirement for video. "Lag" in the terms we use in video games (latency between controller input and video output) is non existent in video, and as long as video and audio sync, everything is fine.

I'm very much in love with the MiSTer project, but sometimes discussions on these forums fall under the banner of "just because you can, doesn't mean you should". I happily use a number of cheap SBCs as media players in my games rooms for playing 4:3 SD content on CRTs. You can purchase $10-$20 devices like "Orange Pi" hardware, install LibreElec and have a functioning, simple to use media player for CRTs in minutes (with perfect modelines and better centering options as well).

Perhaps for the uberminimalists who utterly insist on only having a single device hooked up to a single CRT as the upper limit to their setup complexity, this thread makes sense. To me, who's got all manner of devices in their three games rooms, from MiSTers to real consoles and computers to real arcade machines to small SBC boards and more, just use the best tool for the job instead of trying to hammer more things into devices that don't need to be "everything and the kitchen sink".

If someone absolutely wants to spend their time writing a "DVD player core" for fun or education, more power to them. But honestly, there exist cheaper and easier solutions right now that are completely competent for the requirement of MPEG2 4:2:0 interlaced video playback on a CRT, and there's really no urgency for MiSTer to tackle that.

[Hackshed_Carl]

Personally I don't see the problem with having a DVD player core, or an MP3 player core, or a chip tune player core. They would all add an additional feature to an already amazing platform and while it might not quite fit into the overall vision of a retro gaming/computing platform, it would at least be an option for those that would use it.
So with my above statement, I have to disagree with the comments saying "Just buy a DVD player", you could always counter that with "Just buy a SNES"

On the other hand, realistically, It won't happen unless someone sits down to write it, just the same as every other core.
The reason we have so many amazing cores on the platform is because so far, the people with the skill set to write cores focus on the cores *they* want to use or have an interest in writing.

That's not to say that you can't make the suggestion in the forum like the OP did but simply expecting the core to appear because you want it isn't how it works.

My best suggestion would be to start to look at how FPGA programming works. Once / If you start to get the basics down, your next step would be to join the dev-talk channel on the Discord server and start chatting with the devs.
The people in that channel are genuinely nice folk to talk to and if you show that you're willing to learn something new, I imagine that many of them would offer support and guidance with your development.

Quick note on the above..... the dev-talk channel ins't a place to jump in to and start demanding cores or features, it's a place to discuss actual development of FPGA related works.

Hope this post comes across as the well intended post it's supposed to be and not the ramblings of a mad man.

[elvis]

So with my above statement, I have to disagree with the comments saying "Just buy a DVD player", you could always counter that with "Just buy a SNES"

Price and availability are dramatically different, however (certainly outside of Japan and North America). And for software solutions of each, quality and latency differ dramatically also.

I don't think these statements are comparable as a result.

[Hackshed_Carl]

I agree with that, my statement was simply used as an example.
That way purely me "sitting on the fence" for that particular argument.

Edit :-

"Sitting on the fence" may not be the correct term here. I was simply trying to offer a counter point to that particular statement.
I like to think of the forums as a form of discussion rather than a form of argument.