The Result of My Search for a Great MiSTer Display

[RevolvingDork]

I became a newly minted MiSTer owner over the holiday. Like many of you, I've been thoroughly enjoying the combination of gaming and tinkering that the platform encourages.

Finding the best possible display involves wading through a matrix of tradeoffs, but I've been so happy with when I landed I wanted to share my results in case they can help out other folks on the hunt!

I have my MiSTer mounted in a cocktail cabinet, so I play a lot of vertical / TATE games.

My display wishlist included:

• Lowest possible input latency
• Integer scale-friendliness
• Wide viewing angles
• Something I could actually purchase in a reasonable timeframe

A big part of me wanted to dive into the world of CRTs, but tube hunting during the age of COVID-19 seemed like a dicey proposition. The ideal display is one that could be mailed to my house without a specialized shipping service.

I found a wonderful ( and remarkably affordable ) option in the Asus ProArt PA248QV. It's a 24.1" IPS panel ( with a 27" sibling ) that looks incredible. It turns out that 1200p WUXGA is a fantastic resolution for classic games! Here are some of the things I love about it:

• 1200p means perfect integer scaling at 5x for the vast majority of classic games
• Wide IPS viewing angle works great for cocktail usage
• Variable refresh rate support means it can perfectly match the weird frequencies of any classic game in low latency vsync_adjust=2 mode
• 16:10 feels a lot closer to 4:3 than 16:9 does ( much less letterboxing )
• Can actually be purchased readily for under $200 through most online retailers: https://www.newegg.com/asus-pa248qv-24- ... -_-Product

Needless to say, I highly recommend this display to anyone who loves classic arcade games!

I like to run it with a bright, soft 70% scanline filter. Here are some photos of me running DoDonPachi in its funky 57.4Hz refresh rate natively!

[muthuxmut]

nice find.
i dont want to limit myself to a single display so ive got a couple of MiSTers hooked up to different displays
smallish crt, largish plasma, a wildly inappropriate massive ultrawide lcd, and have a ipad3 retina on the slow boat (excited to try this one out)

[Insert Disk Two]

Two things:

1. Does it support 50hz like Amiga and C64 natively? (No stuttering on scrolling)

2. With the exclusion of DoDonPachi nothing is 240p, but less. I find 1080p with cropping a better solution.

[Newsdee]

I have the older model of the ProArt (PA246Q) which I've used for many years. It's also a 1920x1200 display which is a rare aspect ratio.

I really like it, but I recently upgraded to a wider screen for work (3440x1440). I now run my main MiSTer as half of that screen, which is pretty good for regular display and TATE (1720x1440). My ASUS PA is still around, so I might use it for a TATE setup later on.

[RevolvingDork]

Two things:

1. Does it support 50hz like Amiga and C64 natively? (No stuttering on scrolling)

2. With the exclusion of DoDonPachi nothing is 240p, but less. I find 1080p with cropping a better solution.

1. I'm not a C64 expert, but I booted up Turrican and took a test video with a dinky webcam. It scrolled quite smoothly to my eye, and the monitor was matched at 50.1Hz.

WIN_20210223_18_03_16_Pro.jpg (211.64 KiB) Viewed 40373 times

2. That is also a good option! I like anything running at integer scale so scanline filters don't cause inconsistencies.

I have the older model of the ProArt (PA246Q) which I've used for many years. It's also a 1920x1200 display which is a rare aspect ratio.

I really like it, but I recently upgraded to a wider screen for work (3440x1440). I now run my main MiSTer as half of that screen, which is pretty good for regular display and TATE (1720x1440). My ASUS PA is still around, so I might use it for a TATE setup later on.

That sounds great, 1440 is also a very nice vertical resolution!

[PikWik]

i am also in the camp of nostalgia for CRTs (i have a couple that i use with original consoles) but the upkeep, weight, and inevitable issues with them which require pricey/timely repairs has deterred me to find the best gaming computer monitor.

https://www.rtings.com/monitor/reviews/ ... /under-200

that has a bunch of solid recommendations for reasonably priced gaming monitors,
and i just picked up the Acer Nitro XF243Y Pbmiiprx for $149 not too long ago.

i cannot say enough good things about the Nitro XF243Y. using it for the short time i have, it has sold me on using a computer monitor for my mister setup, vs a HDTV or CRT. i can run the mister in low lag mode on everything, and the Nitro XF243Y is at the top of the list when it comes to lowest input lag available from modern computer monitors, with .5ms response time and 9ms input lag tested
(https://www.rtings.com/monitor/tools/table/48931)

it has worked with everything ive thrown at it, from amiga @ 50hz, to the problematic section-z and double dragon refresh rates, and of course the 1st gen cave titles (dodonpachi) with their non-standard refresh rates.

colors are bright, pixels are sharp, the motion is instantaneous with zero ghosting, and imo the bang-for-the-buck is among the best for a 1080p computer monitor.

i wanted an expensive PVM/PBM or a VGA monitor from the 90s to be my main MiSTer monitor,
but after seeing how well this Acer Nitro has performed, and exceeded my expectations, im glad i didnt spend a small fortune on a PVM/PBM

[Fallon]

Any thoughts on this as a Mister display?:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B082TPQ6ZL

I like the idea of it being simple to rotate for vertical games, and not being chained to a desk with a traditional monitor.

[FoxbatStargazer]

My experience is that rotation is way less appealing on a 16:9 monitor, with those huge black bars on top and bottom, more noticable than having them on the side. I would look for a 4:3 LCD for rotation.

[noel]

I also have a 1200p monitor and i'm very happy with it. But as mentioned by "Insert Disk Two", the games rarely used the 240p resolution but only a part of it.

Genesis games will use 224p resolution, so you won't get a full screen image in 5x mode.... It's a bit frustrating to get 80 lines of black bars. It would be nice to get the crop feature for 1200p resolution too, as they made for 1080p.

[FoxbatStargazer]

6x cropped would be 180p, that would cut pretty far into the usable area for most consoles and arcades. The crop mode only makes sense for 1080p because of the sheer amount of wasted space, which isn't true for other common panel resolutions like 720p, 1200p or 1440p, which are all multiples of 240p.

[PikWik]

My experience is that rotation is way less appealing on a 16:9 monitor, with those huge black bars on top and bottom, more noticable than having them on the side. I would look for a 4:3 LCD for rotation.

that was my initial thinking too, and i researched the "best" 4:3 monitors some time ago.
the 2 i found recommend the most were the LP2065 or the 2007FP
(which both use the same panels)

i do want to mention the NEC P212 as well, but if youre paying that kind of money for a LCD, $800-$1,000, you may as well get a PVM.
and it has a 8ms response time, and questionable input lag...

now, i have the LP2065, IPS version, and it is a wonderful 1600x1200 LCD monitor and im very sure during its release in 2006, it was a beautiful monitor.
the problem is, a monitor from 2006~2007 definitely shows it age.
the colors are washed out, the response time is 8ms (some sites report 16ms) and the input lag is ~20ms.

again, im sure for its time it was a beast, but current computer monitors outclass it in every way.
and yes, it did satisfy my OCD to see "better" integer scaling in 4:3, and how wonderfully it TATE'd dodonpachi, but my gameplay suffered from using the LP2065.

the difference in image quality and performance was quite apparent the moment i used the Acer Nitro XF243Y Pbmiiprx compared to the LP2065.
colors are vibrant, dynamic range is great, motion is instant with no ghosting, and the input lag is "snappy".

now, i need the best performing monitor for the games i play on the mister (SHMUPS, kaizo SMW rom hacks, fighting games)
but other people may be just fine with a LP2065 or a 2007FP if 4:3 is a must for your setup

[jandrogo]

Great pics @RevolvingDork. Although is not a 15KHz crt, monitor images look really faithful. What filter/options are you exactly using? I am testing the external filters and gamma and I am not yet satisfied

I want to upgrade to a 1440p 27” monitor, to fill the vertical space and integer pixel scaling in retro and more actual gaming (480-720p)
Currently I am using a 1920x1080 that gives black borders in horizontal and vertical with integer scaling.. more or less a tiny 31x20 cm image

[RevolvingDork]

Great pics @RevolvingDork. Although is not a 15KHz crt, monitor images look really faithful. What filter/options are you exactly using? I am testing the external filters and gamma and I am not yet satisfied

I have "Scandoubler Fx" set to "None".
The filter I'm using is: "Scanlines (Bright)" -> "Brightness 130%" -> "SL_Br_130_070_Soft". That soft edge really reminds me of a nice, warm CRT.

Another important thing for scanline usage IMO is setting vscale_mode=1 in the INI -- this forces vertical integer scale, so you'll never use vertical interpolation. I really only get bothered by vertical interpolation when using a scanline filter, but your preferences may vary.

One more thing to play with on some console cores are the overscan options. Those effectively alter the vertical resolution you're working with, showing parts of the screen that CRT-bound games never expected to be displayed.

Other folks in this thread are correct that 224p games will have 80 lines of letterboxing on a 1200p display. Those don't bother me in practice, but I totally get that it could be irritating for some.

[lamarax]

[...]I found a wonderful ( and remarkably affordable ) option in the Asus ProArt PA248QV.[...]

Hi RevolvingDork,

You've convinced me in ordering this particular monitor, mostly because of the sync results (without the need of a driver).

Could you please share your custom "video_mode=" line for achieving 1920x1200? There's not an .ini preset for that particular resolution.

[edit] hmm.. seems like I jumped the gun without doing my research :

PA248QV.jpg (450.89 KiB) Viewed 39305 times

(*from the manual)

There's no way the MiSTer can support that in native 1920x1200 res. So, what magic modeline did you use to get the results in your pics? Could you please post your working .ini?

[slaps]

I've been eyeing the Acer ConceptD 24" for many of the same reasons listed for the Asus. It's $300 at Costco right now, not on sale, but I've been keeping an eye on a price drop. I like the wooden base a lot.

[metalfacemark]

I use a dell 2007 on a monitor arm, i think its almost the perfect display, i do have a couple of CRT's as well but i dont find the picture much noticeablly worse for stuff with filters on.

[MiSTer_Kirk]

I use a dell 2007 on a monitor arm, i think its almost the perfect display, i do have a couple of CRT's as well but i dont find the picture much noticeablly worse for stuff with filters on.

WTF ? Seriously ?
I have the same Dell right next to my Philips CRT and the Dell looks utter shite compared to the Philips.
I just don't get how anyone can play these old games on a LCD, they look shite.

[mapf]

There are at least two different panels that were used in the dell 2007fp monitor, if I am not mistaken. This was the main reason why I switched my search to other models. I like the IPS panel in the HP lp2065 that I found locally.

[PikWik]

i dont want to bash anyone's monitor choices, and i am trying to stay as unbiased as possible

i have both versions of the LP2065, the TFT and a IPS.
way back when i was building my LCD MAME cabinet (2016) i saw the majority of people were recommending to either get the LP2065 or a 2007FP and i sprung for the LP2065.

at the time i got it in 2016, it seemed like a wonderful monitor, and i still have one of my LP2065 in the MAME cabinet (which is now only used for SF3 third strike). again, im very sure these monitors were top of the class in 2006, but basically anything in the ~$200 range of modern gaming monitors will be an improvement as far as dynamic range, response time and input lag, over a LP2065/2007FP.

added to that, the bulb life on those aging LP2065/2007FP monitors is getting extreme.
as an example, one of my LP2065s has a little over 9,000 hours of bulb life, and the other one is almost at 30,000 hours of bulb life reported on the monitor's OSD. to put that into perspective, an average bulb life for an LCD is ~40,000 hours.

just from a place of future proofing and planning ahead, getting an LED gaming monitor will serve you in the long run, 5-10 years from now, versus opting for a LP2065/2007FP.

thats my 2cents, and im only sharing my personal experience with all of this monitor buying.
i understand the importance of finding a 4:3 monitor, and was in the same boat myself.
but, good 4:3 monitors just dont exist anymore, and any modern day gaming monitors are leaps and bounds above a monitor from 2006.

now, all that is assuming youre looking for the best performing monitor for your MiSTer.
if youre just looking for a 4:3 monitor that plays video games, then by all means track down a LP2065/2007FP and be done.

[metalfacemark]

I use a dell 2007 on a monitor arm, i think its almost the perfect display, i do have a couple of CRT's as well but i dont find the picture much noticeablly worse for stuff with filters on.

WTF ? Seriously ?
I have the same Dell right next to my Philips CRT and the Dell looks utter shite compared to the Philips.
I just don't get how anyone can play these old games on a LCD, they look shite.

Yes, seriously. Ive got a Philips diamondtron CRT as well, does the CRT look better, yes, does it look much better? No. The benefit of being able to swivel the screen for vertical arcade games wins out for me.

I have the IPS 2007, not the PVA one.

[MiSTer_Kirk]

does it look much better?

Yes it does. At least, on my Philips CM8833 Mk2, it does.

The benefit of being able to swivel the screen for vertical arcade games wins out for me.

But you lose in having a shite picture. Seriously, no LCD/LED monitor compares to a 15khz CRT monitor/TV. These old games were made for CRT tech, on modern LCD tech they look shite. And don't get me started on Mister's utter shite "Scanlines", they're just lines on your screen and look nothing like a CRT scanlines. Now, you can play how you like, I'm not here to judge you for that. But, don't go thinking they look anywhere like a CRT.

[BasketSnake]

Some of us has the AOC 24G2U - it's a great option.

[RevolvingDork]

[...]I found a wonderful ( and remarkably affordable ) option in the Asus ProArt PA248QV.[...]

Hi RevolvingDork,

You've convinced me in ordering this particular monitor, mostly because of the sync results (without the need of a driver).

Could you please share your custom "video_mode=" line for achieving 1920x1200? There's not an .ini preset for that particular resolution.

Absolutely! I had to experiment for a while to work it out, but here's my video_mode line:

Code: Select all

video_mode=1920,48,32,80,1200,3,6,26,154128

I haven't found a weird refresh rate that didn't work natively yet, but I will definitely update if I do.

I was also concerned about the throughput of my HDMI cable, so to give it a little more headroom I turned on DVI mode ( which simply stops sending audio data through the cable ):

Code: Select all

dvi_mode=1

Other things to keep in mind for the Asus ProArt: I used vsync_adjust=2 to match the core's native output and set the min/max refresh rates according to the monitor's manual specs:

Code: Select all

vsync_adjust=2
refresh_min=48
refresh_max=75

Hope that helps! Let me know if you have any other configuration questions.

[Newsdee]

set the min/max refresh rates according to the monitor's manual specs:

Code: Select all

vsync_adjust=2
refresh_min=48
refresh_max=75

I completely missed that setting existed! I have to try and see if it helps with blank screens I've been having with some cores.

[lamarax]

Thank you @RevolvingDork!

It was an adventure really to have it ordered (along with a VESA arm), but it should be here next week.

For those defending the merits of a CRT; yes you're right, I've both an old Mitsubishi multisync DV-I monitor @ 1600x1200 to use, plus an old Philips PAL TV, which behaves only with Ricardo's VGA to SCART cable in selected (50Hz) running cores.

Having an LCD which will sync natively with everything without much hassle was my holy grail, as I don't have much space and time to spare with bulky and quirky CRTs.

And I've grown up in the 80s

[Zeosstud]

I have ordered one also.. thanks for doing a fair amount of leg work..

[Zeosstud]

Mine showed up, your instructions were spot on, did not try to reinvent the wheel, just set things up the way you said to and I am pretty satisfied at the moment..

Appreciate your time and effort sharing this.

-Zeosstud

[lamarax]

I should say this panel is impeccable. It copes with every weird output you throw at it. Even does tate in both cw and ccw rotations!
The "hardcoded" color profiles and modes of operation are awesome as well!

Its embedded speakers sound tinny through HDMI, but that's something to be expected and no one cares after all

Thank you @RevolvingDork once again for your suggestion and leg work required to come up with the optimal settings!

vsync_adjust=2 gang for life!

[Zeosstud]

In case you want to use the suggest filter too, and do not want to go into every game and set it up one at a time..
add this line to your mister.ini

vfilter_default='Scanlines (Bright)/Brightness 130%/SL_Br_130_070_Soft.txt'

-Zeosstud

[RevolvingDork]

I'm glad it's working out for you folks too!

Thank you for the vfilter_default setting, that will come in handy. Here's to weird refresh rates on an LCD!