The Result of My Search for a Great MiSTer Display

[Zeosstud]

Would love to see some pics of your cocktail cabinet if you have any..
Enjoy!!

[RevolvingDork]

Sure thing, here are some photos of my ( still very much a work in progress ) cocktail cabinet.

I still need to formally mount everything, including the car speakers I'm using for audio which currently just lie inside the box.

[Zeosstud]

Super cool.. I am gonna have to build one I think..

[PikWik]

could someone with this monitor run time pilot 84 in low lag mode (vsync_adjust=2)
and report back if the core works without constantly re-syncing, due to the variable pixel clock ?

[lamarax]

In case you want to use the suggest filter too, and do not want to go into every game and set it up one at a time..
add this line to your mister.ini

vfilter_default='Scanlines (Bright)/Brightness 130%/SL_Br_130_070_Soft.txt'

-Zeosstud

I settled on using a tad less blurry filter (SL_Br_130_060_Soft) in general. The juggle between shimmering and crispness is a fine one

Don't forget to set your panel to 'scenery mode' from the hard presets... I've never witnessed such vibrant colors on a TFT before, and this combined with a "poly" gamma setting (2.7 seems the sweet spot for my elderly eyes ), is something to behold!

[lamarax]

could someone with this monitor run time pilot 84 in low lag mode (vsync_adjust=2)
and report back if the core works without constantly re-syncing, due to the variable pixel clock ?

Runs fine on my end (set 1). Although it doesn't seem to have a 'flip screen' setting, and in my situation ccw rotation is the most practical

[edit] syncs @ 60.6Hz for me throughout (just tested set 2 also)

[PikWik]

In case you want to use the suggest filter too, and do not want to go into every game and set it up one at a time..
add this line to your mister.ini

vfilter_default='Scanlines (Bright)/Brightness 130%/SL_Br_130_070_Soft.txt'

-Zeosstud

I settled on using a tad less blurry filter (SL_Br_130_060_Soft) in general. The juggle between shimmering and crispness is a fine one

Don't forget to set your panel to 'scenery mode' from the hard presets... I've never witnessed such vibrant colors on a TFT before, and this combined with a "poly" gamma setting (2.7 seems the sweet spot for my elderly eyes ), is something to behold!

i personally prefer using SNES specific (soft) scanlines, with a pure gamma setting of gamma_115

to me, thats the most natural look for arcades that simulates a believable CRT look.
the gamma setting slightly saturates the colors, and the soft scanlines give a sense of bloom and much needed roundness to the sharp edges of the raw picture

[lamarax]

i personally prefer using SNES specific (soft) scanlines, with a pure gamma setting of gamma_115

to me, thats the most natural look for arcades that simulates a believable CRT look.
the gamma setting slightly saturates the colors, and the soft scanlines give a sense of bloom and much needed roundness to the sharp edges of the raw picture

Hey, just tested this 'combo'. It does indeed look crt-appropriate ( ), but seems a little blurry to me

[Milspex]

I might have to snatch one up too.

How quickly does it sync to custom modelines?

[_ben_w]

Thanks for the tip on this one - after a lot of research I've decided to give this one a go, it's a little bit pricier in the UK but still seems like a great option compared to what else is out there.
Arrives tomorrow.

[Another-Frank]

Same here, I've just ordered at Amazon.de and it's only 236€ currently. I have a BVM 20F1, but changing its alignment via menu every time I change a core is tedious, let alone going tate with this heavy thing. If image quality is close, and input lag not noticeable (to me), it'll stay.

Thanks for sharing your experience RevolvingDork.

[lamarax]

Same here, I've just ordered at Amazon.de and it's only 236€ currently. I have a BVM 20F1, but the changing its alignment via menu every time I change a core is tedious, let alone going tate with this heavy thing. If image quality is close, and input lag not noticeable (to me), it'll stay.

Thanks for sharing your experience RevolvingDork.

You're not going to regret it, I'm vouching for that monitor!

Be sure to crank up the sharpness (ignore the 'vivid pixel' thing; it's awful in that it puts an expanded black border around pixels), and select the 'scenery' color preset. I wouldn't bother with black level, as it cancels the preset above. You also don't need to activate 'adaptive sync', VRR just works out of the box with the MiSTer. There's also this "trace free" setting which supposedly lowers response time (gray on gray? who knows); don't mess with it as it introduces flickering (inserts black frames). Pick your favorite filter and enjoy!

If it'd be me, I'd designate this particular panel as the "official MiSTer" one. It's verified for the lowest input lag a TFT can have (9.2ms)

The trend is for the ipad3 panel to take the crown, but that's a pathetic 9.7" screen, albeit at a higher 4:3 non-standard resolution which won't of course do integer scaling.

PS: If you're worried about 224p output letterboxing, there's an 'overscan' setting as well

[Another-Frank]

That's all valuable setup info, many thanks! Saves me some trial and error time and probably headache

[mr-box]

anybody recommend a bigger screen 32-42inch that is good for mister

[_ben_w]

Absolutely! I had to experiment for a while to work it out, but here's my video_mode line:

Code: Select all

video_mode=1920,48,32,80,1200,3,6,26,154128

I haven't found a weird refresh rate that didn't work natively yet, but I will definitely update if I do.

Thanks for sharing this - not really having experience of editing the .ini file can I just ask a question, I thought I changed my video mode using this code but it still says 1920x1080 not 1920x1200 when I load into something - I assume I got something wrong. Can you confirm exactly where I add this text in the .ini file?

[RevolvingDork]

Thanks for sharing this - not really having experience of editing the .ini file can I just ask a question, I thought I changed my video mode using this code but it still says 1920x1080 not 1920x1200 when I load into something - I assume I got something wrong. Can you confirm exactly where I add this text in the .ini file?

As is my understanding, it doesn't matter *where* you put it in the .ini file, as long as it's on its own line. You do, however, need to make sure there aren't any OTHER "video_mode=" lines in the .ini. Check to see if there are any other lines that start with "video_mode=" and delete them -- that might be the problem.

[RedRocket7]

Hello,

First of all thanks for the Display recommendation. The screen was really affordable and look awesome.
I followed your video settings instruction but I have some minor trouble.

In some games the refresh rate does not adapt perfectly.
For exemple Dodonpachi runs at 57.O, Dig Dug 60.9.

Do i have to set something on the display ?
Maybe you can share your .ini so I can test it ?

Thanks a lot.

[PikWik]

anybody recommend a bigger screen 32-42inch that is good for mister

a 32" gaming PC monitor will not be cheap, but i would recommend the 27" version of the new acer nitro series, Acer Nitro XF273 Sbmiiprx.
exceptional response time and input lag, colors are great, and it easily tates in both directions.

i also think stats of these monitors may help people make a better decision on monitor buying, rather than a biased opinion from someone on a message board. i can only speak to the 2 monitors talked about in this thread, but i do think these comparisons will help people get an idea about what theyre buying.

i want to note, the proart display was not created to be a gaming monitor. proart displays are targeted to graphic designers which can be used for gaming. the noticeable difference comparing the nitro and the proart is the response time, which will be a visible slight ghosting (color trails on fast moving objects).

-----------------

Asus ProArt PA248QV
https://www.rtings.com/monitor/reviews/ ... ay-pa278qv NOTE, this is a review of the 27" version, which may be different than the 24")
Resolution - 1920×1200 (16:10)
Refresh Rates Supported - 48hz-75hz
VRR - Adaptive Sync (FreeSync compatible)
Rotation - Yes, both 90 & -90 (VESA compatible)

Color - Adobe RGB 74.5 % (sRGB 95.8 %)
Color Depth - 8 Bit
Input Lag @ 60Hz - 9 ms
Response Time @ 60Hz - 12.4 ms

Release Date - May 15, 2020
Average Price - $210 USD

-----------------

Acer Nitro XF243Y Pbmiiprx
https://www.rtings.com/monitor/reviews/ ... y-pbmiiprx
Resolution - 1920×1080 (16:9)
Refresh Rates Supported - 20hz-144hz (165hz in extreme mode)
VRR - FreeSync
Rotation - Yes, both 90 & -90 (VESA compatible)

Color - Adobe RGB 76.0 % (sRGB 99.4 %)
Color Depth - 10 Bit
Input Lag @ 60Hz - 9.3 ms
Response Time @ 60Hz - 9.3 ms

Release Date - October 14, 2020
Average Price - $200 USD

[lamarax]

This panel just works.

I'm sure there are other ones which would beat it on paper specs, but who cares if the job is done 100%?

We're talking about the MiSTer here, not the latest HDR gaming @ 240Hz

[edit] How many times should one iterate that freesync doesn't work without a dedicated driver *sigh*

[Another-Frank]

Got mine yesterday and set everything up according to the recommended setting from this thread. I had my Sony BVM 20F1E right next to it so I could compare and adjust the picture even further to match the BVM. I think I'm very close with some extra adjustments and I'm happy to share once consider it final. The still image with the right filter applied is so close that I would call it a day. However, two things I don't like:

1) Running the 240p test suite via TurboGrafx-16 core gives me a vertically stretched image at the 320x224 resolution (the circle of the Linearity picture looks like an egg), and a perfect image ratio at 256x224. Is this because the video_mode is set to be perfect for 256x224, and if I run anything else I'll have to change the video_mode setting?

2) Running the Scroll Test of the suite, the video gets quite blurry (especially the gras stripe at the bottom since it's moving fastest). On my BVM, the entire image stays crystal clear no matter how fast I scroll and when my eyes follow and focus an object, it's sharp. Is this something we have to accept and this panel (or any panel) can't do better, or could there be a setting that I haven't enabled/disabled yet?

[RevolvingDork]

Hello,

First of all thanks for the Display recommendation. The screen was really affordable and look awesome.
I followed your video settings instruction but I have some minor trouble.

In some games the refresh rate does not adapt perfectly.
For exemple Dodonpachi runs at 57.O, Dig Dug 60.9.

Do i have to set something on the display ?
Maybe you can share your .ini so I can test it ?

Thanks a lot.

Here's my current .ini file in full, hope it helps! I haven't made any changes to the monitor's settings. One thing to keep in mind: I'm using an HDMI -> HDMI cable to connect the MISTer to the monitor.

Code: Select all

[MiSTer]
key_menu_as_rgui=0     ; set to 1 to make the MENU key map to RGUI in Minimig (e.g. for Right Amiga)
forced_scandoubler=0   ; set to 1 to run scandoubler on VGA output always (depends on core).
ypbpr=0                ; set to 1 for YPbPr on VGA output.
composite_sync=0       ; set to 1 for composite sync on HSync signal of VGA output.
vga_scaler=0           ; set to 1 to connect VGA to scaler output.
hdmi_audio_96k=0       ; set to 1 for 96khz/16bit HDMI audio (48khz/16bit otherwise)
keyrah_mode=0x18d80002 ; VIDPID of keyrah for special code translation (0x23418037 for Arduino Micro)
vscale_mode=1          ; 0 - scale to fit the screen height.
                       ; 1 - use integer scale only.
                       ; 2 - use 0.5 steps of scale.
                       ; 3 - use 0.25 steps of scale.
vscale_border=0        ; set vertical border for TVs cutting the upper/bottom parts of screen (1-399)
;bootscreen=0          ; uncomment to disable boot screen of some cores like Minimig. 
;mouse_throttle=10     ; 1-100 mouse speed divider. Useful for very sensitive mice
rbf_hide_datecode=0    ; 1 - hides datecodes from rbf file names. Press F2 for quick temporary toggle
menu_pal=0             ; 1 - PAL mode for menu core
hdmi_limited=0         ; 1 - use limited (16..235) color range over HDMI
                       ; 2 - use limited (16..255) color range over HDMI, for VGA converters.
direct_video=0         ; 1 - enable core video timing over HDMI, use only with VGA converters.
fb_size=0              ; 0 - automatic, 1 - full size, 2 - 1/2 of resolution, 4 - 1/4 of resolution.
fb_terminal=1          ; 1 - enabled (default), 0 - disabled
osd_timeout=30         ; 5-3600 timeout (in seconds) for OSD to disappear in Menu core. 30 seconds if not set.
                       ; Background picture will get darker after double timeout
osd_rotate=0           ; Display OSD menu rotated,  0 - no rotation, 1 - rotate right (+90°), 2 - rotate left (-90°)                  

; 1 - enables the recent file loaded/mounted.
; WARNING: This option will enable write to SD card on every load/mount which may wear the SD card after many writes to the same place
;          There is also higher chance to corrupt the File System if MiSTer will be reset or powered off while writing.
recents=0

; lastcore - Autoboot the last loaded core (corename autosaved in CONFIG/lastcore.dat) first found on the SD/USB
; lastexactcore - Autoboot the last loaded exact core (corename_yyyymmdd.rbf autosaved in CONFIG/lastcore.dat) first found on the SD/USB
; corename - Autoboot first corename_*.rbf found on the SD/USB
; corename_yyyymmdd.rbf - Autoboot first corename_yyyymmdd.rbf found on the SD/USB
;bootcore=lastcore    ; uncomment to autoboot a core, as the last loaded core.

; 10-30 timeout before autoboot, comment for autoboot without timeout.
bootcore_timeout=10

; Option to load the custom font. Format is plain bitmap 8x8.
; Supported sizes of font:
;   768 bytes - chars 32-127 (only alpha + numeric)
;  1024 bytes - chars 0-127
;  1136 bytes - chars 0-141
;  up to 2048 - only chars 0-141 will be used.
; if first 32 chars are empty (for sizes 1024 bytes and more) then they are skipped.
font=font/myfont.pf

; USER button emulation by keybaord. Usually it's reset button.
; 0 - lctrl+lalt+ralt (lctrl+lgui+rgui on keyrah)
; 1 - lctrl+lgui+rgui
; 2 - lctrl+lalt+del
; 3 - same as 0 (lctrl+lalt+ralt on keyrah)
reset_combo=0

; set to 1 for DVI mode. Audio won't be transmitted through HDMI in DVI mode.
dvi_mode=1

; 0 - 1280x720@60
; 1 - 1024x768@60
; 2 - 720x480@60
; 3 - 720x576@50
; 4 - 1280x1024@60
; 5 - 800x600@60
; 6 - 640x480@60
; 7 - 1280x720@50
; 8 - 1920x1080@60
; 9 - 1920x1080@50
;10 - 1366x768@60
;11 - 1024x600@60
;12 - 1920x1440@60
;13 - 2048x1536@60
;
; custom mode: hact,hfp,hs,hbp,vact,vfp,vs,vbp,Fpix_in_KHz
;   video_mode=1280,110,40,220,720,5,5,20,74250
;video_mode=0
video_mode=1920,48,32,80,1200,3,6,26,154128

; set to 1-10 (seconds) to display video info on startup/change
video_info=10

; Set to 1 for automatic HDMI VSync rate adjust to match original VSync.
; Set to 2 for low latency mode (single buffer).
; This option makes video butter smooth like on original emulated system.
; Adjusting is done by changing pixel clock. Not every display supports variable pixel clock.
; For proper adjusting and to reduce possible out of range pixel clock, use 60Hz HDMI video
; modes as a base even for 50Hz systems. 
vsync_adjust=2

; If you monitor doesn't support either very low (NTSC monitors may not support PAL) or 
; very high (PAL monitors may not support NTSC) then you can set refresh_min and/or refresh_max
; parameters, so vsync_adjust won't be applied for refreshes outside specified.
; These parameters are valid only when vsync_adjust is non-zero.
refresh_min=48
refresh_max=75

; These parameters have the same format as video_mode.
; You need to supply both PAL and NTSC modes if you want vsync_adjust to switch between
; predefined modes as a base. This will reduce the range of pixel clock.
;video_mode_ntsc=0
;video_mode_pal=7

; 1-10 (seconds) to display controller's button map upon first time key press
; 0 - disable
controller_info=6

; JammaSD/J-PAC/I-PAC keys to joysticks translation
; You have to provide correct VID and PID of your input device
; Examples: Legacy J-PAC with Mini-USB or USB capable I-PAC with PS/2 connectors VID=0xD209/PID=0x0301
; USB Capable J-PAC with only PS/2 connectors VID=0x04B4/PID=0x0101
; JammaSD: VID=0x04D8/PID=0xF3AD
jamma_vid=0x04D8
jamma_pid=0xF3AD

; Disable merging input devices. Use if only player 1 works.
; Leave no_merge_pid empty to apply this to all devices with the same VID.
;no_merge_vid=0x045E
;no_merge_pid=0x028E

; Speeds in sniper/non-sniper modes of mouse emulation by joystick 
; 0 - (default) - faster move in non-sniper mode, slower move in sniper mode.
; 1 - movement speeds are swapped.
sniper_mode=0

; Uncomment following option if you don't want to see a second line for long file names in listing.
;browse_expand=0

; 0 - disable MiSTer logo in Menu core
logo=1

; Custom shared folder for core supporting this feature (currently minimig and ao486 only)
; Can be relative to core's home dir or absolute path.
; Path must exist before core start to use it, or it will fail.
; Make sure USB device is mounted before use shared folder on USB!
shared_folder=

; Custom aspect ratio
;custom_aspect_ratio_1=16:10
;custom_aspect_ratio_2=1:1

; use specific (VID/PID) mouse X movement as a spinner and paddle. Use VID=0xFFFF/PID=0xFFFF to use all mice as spinners.
; spinner_throttle with base value 100 gives one spinner step per one tick. Higher value makes spinner slower.
; Lower than 100 makes spinner faster. Negative value gives opposite direction.
;spinner_vid=0x1BCF
;spinner_pid=0x0005
;spinner_throttle=-50

; Default filters for video scaler and audio. Paths must be relative to scaler/audio filter filders without leading slash.
;vfilter_default=LCD_Effect/07.txt
;afilter_default=LPF2000_3tap.txt

[grizzly]

2) Running the Scroll Test of the suite, the video gets quite blurry (especially the gras stripe at the bottom since it's moving fastest). On my BVM, the entire image stays crystal clear no matter how fast I scroll and when my eyes follow and focus an object, it's sharp. Is this something we have to accept and this panel (or any panel) can't do better, or could there be a setting that I haven't enabled/disabled yet?

2, Sounds like your seeing one of the drawbacks of LCD panels.
Which is this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Display_motion_blur

[RevolvingDork]

1) Running the 240p test suite via TurboGrafx-16 core gives me a vertically stretched image at the 320x224 resolution (the circle of the Linearity picture looks like an egg), and a perfect image ratio at 256x224. Is this because the video_mode is set to be perfect for 256x224, and if I run anything else I'll have to change the video_mode setting?

I did notice this on the 240p test suite on TG-16 as well, but it looks like individual games run at different resolutions. I was able to alter this by playing with the core's settings ( specifically, the "Audio & Video" -> "Scale" / "Overscan" settings ). It looks like the majority of TG-16 games run at 256×240, but you might need to do some tweaking on a game-by-game basis.

2) Running the Scroll Test of the suite, the video gets quite blurry (especially the gras stripe at the bottom since it's moving fastest). On my BVM, the entire image stays crystal clear no matter how fast I scroll and when my eyes follow and focus an object, it's sharp. Is this something we have to accept and this panel (or any panel) can't do better, or could there be a setting that I haven't enabled/disabled yet?

I believe this is a "feature" of LCD panels at large. There's actually a setting in the monitor to tweak this -- check out Menu -> Image -> Trace Free. I believe the default is "40", and the higher you go the less blurring you'll get ( at the cost of more ghosting ).

[RedRocket7]

Here's my current .ini file in full, hope it helps! I haven't made any changes to the monitor's settings. One thing to keep in mind: I'm using an HDMI -> HDMI cable to connect the MISTer to the monitor.

Thanks for sharing !
I tried your .ini with a fresh Mister install via update_all and Dodonpachi. It still lock at 57.0 instead of 57.2.
I switched to a VGA cable and it lock at 57.2.
Si I though maybe it's an HDMI cable problem but I tried with 3 different one and got the same result.

The display settings are stock too, so I'm kinda lost.

[PikWik]

Running the Scroll Test of the suite, the video gets quite blurry (especially the gras stripe at the bottom since it's moving fastest). On my BVM, the entire image stays crystal clear no matter how fast I scroll and when my eyes follow and focus an object, it's sharp. Is this something we have to accept and this panel (or any panel) can't do better, or could there be a setting that I haven't enabled/disabled yet?

im using the aforementioned acer nitro XF243Y,
but can also confirm the scrolling isnt as sharp, compared to the scrolling on my CRT with test suite 240p loaded with a SD2SNES and an original console.

the acer nitro stays as sharp as my CRT for the first couple scrolling speeds, using the scroll test with the sonic background, but as the scrolling gets cranked up, the bottom grass gets blurry.
mind you, i dont know of any games that scroll pixels that wildly, and the games i do play most often (SHMUPS, SMW rom hacks) are as sharp as they need to be and movement blur is not noticeable during gameplay.

this blur/motion test would be different if i was running the acer nitro in a native 120hz+ mode, and i would not expect scrolling to blur the way it does at the ~60hz of the SNES test suite. running a computer monitor at 120hz versus 60hz is a night and day difference, specifically when comparing things like movement/pixel blur.

i know you said you were using a BVM, but im using a consumer grade CRT from the mid 2000s. my consumer CRT is not an example of a pristine CRT, it has distortions, and is quite blurry in general (the text on the test suite is hard to read/mushy, even with my TV's sharpness set at a decent level).

the acer nitro displays the mister in razor sharp pixels and even if the frantic hyper scrolling of the test suite is blurry, i have no desire to use the CRT as my main monitor, compared to the versatility of a modern PC monitor that can easily tate in both directions.

[Another-Frank]

im using the aforementioned acer nitro XF243Y, but can also confirm the scrolling isnt as sharp, compared to the scrolling on my CRT with test suite 240p loaded with a SD2SNES and an original console.

I returned the Asus since I don't like the blurred picture when scrolling. It wasn't only during the Sonic scene, I also noticed some blur and even stutter when playing GnG for the short time I had it. On top of that, I wanted to use it for my current gen consoles when our main TV is occupied, but the Asus stretches the 1080p image instead of using letterbox, what a shame. The picture is great and I can see why it's great for many other people.

Maybe I'll give the XF243Y a go, it would be interesting to see how noticeable the blurriness is. But since I seem to be picky about the topic, I'll probably just keep using the BVMs for retro gaming after all. Their picture quality is flawless for this type of content.

[Zeosstud]

Yeah, I think just keep using the BVM.. Those of us getting an LCD have basically just given up on the whole BVM / PVM and are doing the best we can with things we can actually get our hands on and afford.. Game on sir!!

[PikWik]

yes, what zeo said.

for me, i needed something that could be easily incorporated into an all-in-one cabinet i was building, and the need for rotating in both directions, and supporting all the weird refresh rates, was paramount. the XF243Y does just that, and i havent had any problems with it.

------

in an ideal world, i would have 3 BVMs/PVMs, one for each rotation, with 3 separate mister's connected in dedicated cabinets,
but i dont have that kind of money or space

[akeley]

The BVM/PVM hype is the curse of CRT gaming. You really don't need to spend hundreds of dollars on one of these to have a good CRT experience. Decent consumer sets (such as Trinitrons, but not only) can have outsdanding display quality and cost you either nothing or the price of a few beers.

[grizzly]

cost you either nothing or the price of a few beers.

And a broken back