Real Floppy Drive

[toastboy]

I've got stuck trying to find a suitable level converter off-the-shelf.
There's this - https://www.technobotsonline.com/mdfly- ... 3v-5v.html
Which has enough channels to support the 7-outputs and 5-inputs, but is it appropriate for this? What about pullup resistors? Are they needed with this board?

I'll be the first to admit that I have a make-it-up-as-I-go-along approach to electronics, but my hope is that if I can get this working, anyone with a soldering iron can do the same.

[ByteMavericks]

Thinking aloud, would it be possible to use this work as the basis for improving the disk activity light to reflect MOTOR_ON as it does in the Amiga - rather than DMA_ON which is what it does now if I understand correctly - and secondly to pass more signals back up to the ARM side with a view to adding in floppy sounds? (Or is that not possible due to the way HDMI is provided by the core?)

Apologies for my ignorance, keen to learn!

[retrorepair]

Thinking aloud, would it be possible to use this work as the basis for improving the disk activity light to reflect MOTOR_ON as it does in the Amiga - rather than DMA_ON which is what it does now if I understand correctly - and secondly to pass more signals back up to the ARM side with a view to adding in floppy sounds? (Or is that not possible due to the way HDMI is provided by the core?)

Apologies for my ignorance, keen to learn!

This would be a simple change but Sorg likes DMA as it's more lively.

I think original behaviour would be preferred personally as DMA doesn't always seem to reflect the disk activity correctly.

This is probably discussion for another topic though.

[LamerDeluxe]

I agree that you'd want the drive light to act like the one of a real Amiga.

[arglmauf]

Cheers. I've got a Amiga 500 Case with keyboard on my workbench that just begs to be filled with the MiSTer. Adding a proper floppy to it would be the icing on the cake:D

Any plans the floppy patch will eventually find its way into the core? Or will this stay an enthusiasts project?

[retrorepair]

Posting patches & compiled binaries with updated write code.

Could you possibly look to get some of the floppy controller improvements merged?

There's no reason they shouldn't be if they achieve more accurate behaviour.

[retrorepair]

Oh, and that argh ao486 note: density select pin is not needed for that. It should work both for DD and HD disks in DOS.

Sorry, not trying to be nitpick.. but just to discover something every day: back in the day, I thought this PIN was needed to format a DD 360K 5"1/4 floppy disk inside a HD 1,2M floppy drive. Is it true or false? I could imagine that 3,5" drives can just auto-configure themselves by checking the second hole, but I can't remember "an hole" for 5 1/4 HD floppies (instead, I could remember that you can force HD format on a SD, of course with disasters coming in seconds).

Also.. THANKS for your updated pinout!

Finally - again - a request for help.
I checked out CD4050B schematic (the only chip I have to do level conversion here):
cd4050b.gif

I looked at I/O schematic (I think you also pointed out) and the output seems open-collector. In input, I don't think I will need anything to get a stable logic. So my proposal is this one (ex. for a single input and a single output):

cd4050b-levelconversionexample.gif

Do you think it's ok?

Did you get anywhere with this?

[Lukage]

Posting patches & compiled binaries with updated write code.

Could you possibly look to get some of the floppy controller improvements merged?

There's no reason they shouldn't be if they achieve more accurate behaviour.

To be completely honest, I just can't figure out how to integrate it properly and not compromise any other MiSTer functionality.

For some past months I was busy with other projects, but was still investigating other possibilities of floppy connection. Because it is not possible for unmodified user port to shift signals with enough speed, it is not possible to create cheap simple interface just for user port how it was proposed before.

Right now, I do tend more to STM32 version of floppy controller, like using Greaseweazle, and use USART on STM32 for floppy data, which is completely possible for user port to handle. Or just plug the Greaseweazle unmodified via USB, and lose some functionality, like drive clicks, but gain some more functionality, like usage of raw disk files in MiSTer emulators.

Has anyone used my floppy code and tested it sucessfully ?

[matbird]

Hello! I was wondering if you'd seen this... Looks very interesting, does it have any potential utility for MiSTer? https://youtu.be/aJ0g7lQQVus

[limi]

Definitely looks like the missing hardware piece for MiSTer’s hardware compatibility for Amigas. Since there’s an integration into WinUAE, it would be great to see if this could be made to work with the Minimig core.

Developer’s web site: https://amiga.robsmithdev.co.uk

GitHub repository: https://github.com/RobSmithDev/ArduinoFloppyDiskReader

[retrorepair]

It would need to replace the core's floppy controller but I don't see why it shouldn't work.

If it works on an emulator, it should actually work better with the amiga core (no host system with timing constraints).

I wondered if this had been noticed over here

[Caldor]

Yeah, that new development that allows floppy disks to be used with WinUAE ought to be something that could be used for the MiSTer as well, and I am guessing it could be used for more than just the Amiga core but giving it different firmwares to run.

I am certainly thinking about getting a Greaseweazle now. I have the SuperCard Pro and that was the main reason I did not invest in one yet, but... there is just something nice about having direct access to physical floppy disks.

[bazza_12]

I did comment to Neil on Twitter, if the drive worked on MiSTer but he said as it was a WinUAE device it wouldn't work. There must be some jiggery-pokery that can be done to get it to work. It would defo scratch a retro itch to have a floppy drive that could read Amiga (or even ST) disks

[Caldor]

I did comment to Neil on Twitter, if the drive worked on MiSTer but he said as it was a WinUAE device it wouldn't work. There must be some jiggery-pokery that can be done to get it to work. It would defo scratch a retro itch to have a floppy drive that could read Amiga (or even ST) disks

Yeah, from what I understand its right now a custom version of WinUAE that does this, but if the creators of that can explain how they got it to work, I suspect it could also be done for FPGAs... well, that would be pretty awesome if it could anyway

[ByteMavericks]

This is great, however it’s very tightly coupled to winuae from what I can see. The minimig core floppy interface seems to request and pass sectors. I assume winuae and the new code are between them emulating and passing flux to the Paula/floppy module of winuae… there’s definite advantages to adding to the minimig to arm interface - not least including sounds!

[Caldor]

I was looking into issues with IPF and using such floppy images with Minimig was a problem because of how the core accesses disks, so maybe its a problem to read copy protected disks this way... and this whole solution is advanced enough to support copy protected disks. I think that might be a problem if this is the case.

But then, the floppy solution that was made for Minimig and tested earlier in this thread, could it be used for copy protected floppy disks? Was that tested?

[retrorepair]

The core's floppy controller I believe would be replaced by this so shouldn't matter

[Caldor]

The core's floppy controller I believe would be replaced by this so shouldn't matter

It could, but I am asking whether it has to or maybe already has been, to get the current solution to work.

[JimDrew]

Yeah, that new development that allows floppy disks to be used with WinUAE ought to be something that could be used for the MiSTer as well, and I am guessing it could be used for more than just the Amiga core but giving it different firmwares to run.

I am certainly thinking about getting a Greaseweazle now. I have the SuperCard Pro and that was the main reason I did not invest in one yet, but... there is just something nice about having direct access to physical floppy disks.

Does the current Minimig pull the low-level floppy code from Replay? If so then that gives you .scp image file support where you can load copy-protected disk images. I am working on the FloppyBridge for WinUAE. There are already a variety of other emulators and utilities that support using the SuperCard Pro hardware to read/write disks directly.

[toastboy]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aJ0g7lQQVus

RMC coverage of Rob Smith's work-in-progress flux-level USB drive.

Waiting list page for orders is here https://amiga.robsmithdev.co.uk/waiting. Rob guestimates price about £60 plus shipping.

To be entirely clear, it does not integrate with mister, and there are no announced plans to do so.

[ByteMavericks]

I think the interface between fpga and arm would need a complete rethink… not impossible, but definitely not trivial

[Kung-Fu]

I can confirm that I just tested Rob Smith's Arduino Floppy Reader Writer works, just like the video you probably saw. I built one from his public plans where I used an Arduino Nano 3 and an external floppy drive. I booted into a beta of Winuae from a real floppy drive and a real Amiga floppy! I also booted into PiMiga 1.5 on the Raspberry Pi 4 on a dev chain of Amiberry which also loaded the same disk I used for Winuae, and again it booted and ran normally. This is now a reality. Now go grab your floppies out of the trash and fire them up!

Cheers!

Kung-Fu!

[-N2]

for interfacing a Floppy Drive have a look at the chip used on later model PC motherboards, they used a Low Pin Count interface. the parts are still available.

https://www.viatech.com/en/silicon/lega ... ls/vt1211/

[RobSmithDev]

I know this thread has been a little quiet. I'm the developer who did the WinUAE work with real floppy drives. After I finish adding Supercard Pro and HD support, I'm planning on picking up the gauntlet on the MiSTer. Won't be for about a month or so, and I don't even own one yet.
Just thought i'd give you the heads up. Not wanting to tread on anyone's toes, looks like there has been some interesting progress which I can take a look at and am willing to work with whoever wants to! I just want to help to work towards a great solution.

[mahen]

Yay, great news Thanks for considering this

[arglmauf]

Thanks for considering. Let's hope you can figure something out. Amiga just isn't quite the same without the carpal tunnel syndrome inducing floppy swap experience:)

[multisystem]

I know this thread has been a little quiet. I'm the developer who did the WinUAE work with real floppy drives. After I finish adding Supercard Pro and HD support, I'm planning on picking up the gauntlet on the MiSTer. Won't be for about a month or so, and I don't even own one yet.
Just thought i'd give you the heads up. Not wanting to tread on anyone's toes, looks like there has been some interesting progress which I can take a look at and am willing to work with whoever wants to! I just want to help to work towards a great solution.

Hi Rob,

Great to hear this news. (it's Richard from Heber here - we talked a few months back) - Super excited you are investigating the Floppy support in MiSTer.

If we can assist with any testing or hardware prototypes / help, just let me know.

The MiSTer Multisystem is launching shortly, that has a number of possible expansion add-on ports we could use if the Arduino/serial/USB route does not give you a way forward for the MiSTer and Minimig core - direct FPGA connection or via the USER port may be a viable option.

Cheers,

Richard.

[bazza_12]

Thanks for considering. Let's hope you can figure something out. Amiga just isn't quite the same without the carpal tunnel syndrome inducing floppy swap experience:)

blame floppy swapping.. but we all know

[RobSmithDev]

Hi Rob,

Great to hear this news. (it's Richard from Heber here - we talked a few months back) - Super excited you are investigating the Floppy support in MiSTer.

If we can assist with any testing or hardware prototypes / help, just let me know.

The MiSTer Multisystem is launching shortly, that has a number of possible expansion add-on ports we could use if the Arduino/serial/USB route does not give you a way forward for the MiSTer and Minimig core - direct FPGA connection or via the USER port may be a viable option.

Cheers,

Richard.

Hi Richard, yes remember you I agree that this is unlikely to be a USB solution, but rather some kind of add on board. Far too early to say to be honest. I’ll post more when I understand more.

[Caldor]

I know this thread has been a little quiet. I'm the developer who did the WinUAE work with real floppy drives. After I finish adding Supercard Pro and HD support, I'm planning on picking up the gauntlet on the MiSTer. Won't be for about a month or so, and I don't even own one yet.
Just thought i'd give you the heads up. Not wanting to tread on anyone's toes, looks like there has been some interesting progress which I can take a look at and am willing to work with whoever wants to! I just want to help to work towards a great solution.

Nice I have a SuperCard Pro, so I look forward to test this. Also got a GreazeWeasel on the way. When I first heard about this working with WinUAE, my first thought was that it might also work for the MiSTer or at least a Raspberry Pi. That certainly would add something extra interesting to my Pi + Keyrah in an Amiga 1200 casing setup, if it could also have a floppy drive added to it.