Why is the default layout flipped from the Neo Geo CD Pad?
Why is the default layout flipped from the Neo Geo CD Pad?
I am genuinely curious and ignorant to the reason for this. Looking at the OEM original control pads, the layout is:
CD
AB
But on a regular controller set up with the SNES layout in the MiSTer controller config, it defaults to this:
DC
BA
Now to make things more confusing of course, the Neo Geo mini pads have their own unusual layout, but it doesn't match the Neo Geo core default either. There are also different community layouts for things like KOF or Metal Slug, from what I'm seeing, but again, I didn't see a correlation there either.
Personally I think I'd default to the original hardware layout if it was my choice (and obviously anybody can change the layout manually after the fact), but I'm curious why the current layout is what it is?
CD
AB
But on a regular controller set up with the SNES layout in the MiSTer controller config, it defaults to this:
DC
BA
Now to make things more confusing of course, the Neo Geo mini pads have their own unusual layout, but it doesn't match the Neo Geo core default either. There are also different community layouts for things like KOF or Metal Slug, from what I'm seeing, but again, I didn't see a correlation there either.
Personally I think I'd default to the original hardware layout if it was my choice (and obviously anybody can change the layout manually after the fact), but I'm curious why the current layout is what it is?
Re: Why is the default layout flipped from the Neo Geo CD Pad?
It's probably matching A to A, B to B regardless of position. Obviously that doesn't line up right when A is on the left.
There's a setting in mister.ini to match the buttons based on their position rather than the names:
There's a setting in mister.ini to match the buttons based on their position rather than the names:
Code: Select all
; Defines internal joypad mapping from virtual SNES mapping in main to core mapping
; Set to 0 for name mapping (jn) (e.g. A button in SNES core = A button on controller regardless of position on pad)
; Set to 1 for positional mapping (jp) (e.g. A button in SNES core = East button on controller regardless of button name)
gamepad_defaults=0
- Newsdee
- Top Contributor
- Posts: 873
- Joined: Mon May 25, 2020 1:07 am
- Has thanked: 104 times
- Been thanked: 239 times
Re: Why is the default layout flipped from the Neo Geo CD Pad?
I just checked, and positional mapping is not implemented for the Neogeo core.
Basically this part of the core config string:
Code: Select all
J1,A,B,C,D,Start,Select,Coin,ABC
Re: Why is the default layout flipped from the Neo Geo CD Pad?
Interesting, so is this an issue I should bring up on github?Newsdee wrote: ↑Sat Dec 25, 2021 4:53 amI just checked, and positional mapping is not implemented for the Neogeo core.
Basically this part of the core config string:should have two versions (jn and jp).Code: Select all
J1,A,B,C,D,Start,Select,Coin,ABC
- Newsdee
- Top Contributor
- Posts: 873
- Joined: Mon May 25, 2020 1:07 am
- Has thanked: 104 times
- Been thanked: 239 times
Re: Why is the default layout flipped from the Neo Geo CD Pad?
This is one of the few things I know how to fix
Can you try this binary and let me know if it works for you?
- Attachments
-
- NeoGeo_positional_20211225.rbf
- (3.52 MiB) Downloaded 211 times
Re: Why is the default layout flipped from the Neo Geo CD Pad?
Do you mean remap the buttons? If you do, I'm aware of how to remap it, I was looking to fix the issue. Why not fix it at the core level if possible?
-
- Posts: 102
- Joined: Thu Aug 19, 2021 4:07 am
- Has thanked: 2 times
- Been thanked: 41 times
Re: Why is the default layout flipped from the Neo Geo CD Pad?
That's framing it as something to "fix". Neo Geo layout I'm finding out is very much a personal preference. Unless someone is using the arcade layout in the usual straight line, everyone likes to define the buttons in different ways. Sometimes people even remap based on the game; fighting game vs run and gun, as an example. For a 4 button face layout, I personally would put A on the bottom, B on the left, C on the right, and D on the top. Makes for a nice thumb rock for run and gun and keeps the weak attacks on the "bottom" of the 4 buttons and strong attacks on the "top" of the 4 buttons for fighting games. And people using 6 button controllers may really be shaking it up.
Personally, I think anyone that is familiar with the Neo Geo controls will be remapping immediately to their preference. For anyone else coming in more blind to Neo Geo games, I think lining up A and B to A and B on the Nintendo layout makes sense. Keeps in line with the usual accept and cancel buttons, as well. That's why I don't see it as something needing to be "fixed". When even SNK doesn't have a standard layout, I think it's fine if the MiSTer core is doing what makes sense for its platform.
Re: Why is the default layout flipped from the Neo Geo CD Pad?
Yeah, I hear you there, and that makes a lot of sense. I guess my point is- all things being equal (i.e. there are many different layouts that people prefer), why not default to the original OEM layout that came with the consoles? Some people might not like it, but that's true of any layout, and at least that one is what many people grew up withDevilHunterWolf wrote: ↑Sat Dec 25, 2021 6:22 pmThat's framing it as something to "fix". Neo Geo layout I'm finding out is very much a personal preference. Unless someone is using the arcade layout in the usual straight line, everyone likes to define the buttons in different ways. Sometimes people even remap based on the game; fighting game vs run and gun, as an example. For a 4 button face layout, I personally would put A on the bottom, B on the left, C on the right, and D on the top. Makes for a nice thumb rock for run and gun and keeps the weak attacks on the "bottom" of the 4 buttons and strong attacks on the "top" of the 4 buttons for fighting games. And people using 6 button controllers may really be shaking it up.
Personally, I think anyone that is familiar with the Neo Geo controls will be remapping immediately to their preference. For anyone else coming in more blind to Neo Geo games, I think lining up A and B to A and B on the Nintendo layout makes sense. Keeps in line with the usual accept and cancel buttons, as well. That's why I don't see it as something needing to be "fixed". When even SNK doesn't have a standard layout, I think it's fine if the MiSTer core is doing what makes sense for its platform.
That's just my line of thinking, it'd be like growing up with the SNES and then the buttons are all jumbled
From a preservation standpoint it seems the most logical choice to me
- Newsdee
- Top Contributor
- Posts: 873
- Joined: Mon May 25, 2020 1:07 am
- Has thanked: 104 times
- Been thanked: 239 times
Re: Why is the default layout flipped from the Neo Geo CD Pad?
Positional mapping is a feature of the platform, currently not used in the core. It is relative to a SNES gamepad so mapping to a Neogeo CD controller is the most naturalDevilHunterWolf wrote: ↑Sat Dec 25, 2021 6:22 pm I think it's fine if the MiSTer core is doing what makes sense for its platform.
Has anybody tried my build with gamepad_defaults=1 ?
Re: Why is the default layout flipped from the Neo Geo CD Pad?
A friend of mine did unsuccessfully but I'll try later, with the holiday my availability will be randomNewsdee wrote: ↑Sat Dec 25, 2021 6:45 pmPositional mapping is a feature of the platform, currently not used in the core. It is relative to a SNES gamepad so mapping to a Neogeo CD controller is the most naturalDevilHunterWolf wrote: ↑Sat Dec 25, 2021 6:22 pm I think it's fine if the MiSTer core is doing what makes sense for its platform.
Has anybody tried my build with gamepad_defaults=1 ?
Re: Why is the default layout flipped from the Neo Geo CD Pad?
Just tried it and it works beautifullyNewsdee wrote: ↑Sat Dec 25, 2021 6:45 pmPositional mapping is a feature of the platform, currently not used in the core. It is relative to a SNES gamepad so mapping to a Neogeo CD controller is the most naturalDevilHunterWolf wrote: ↑Sat Dec 25, 2021 6:22 pm I think it's fine if the MiSTer core is doing what makes sense for its platform.
Has anybody tried my build with gamepad_defaults=1 ?