Coleco Adam Core?

[kamshaft]

Anyone know if this is even a thought at this point in time?

[pcfreak324]

You can play Adam games on the Colecovision core as long as they are in cartridge format. Floppy and tape loading is not supported and would be very difficult to implement (at least that is what gyurco told me in 2018).

[Captain_Red_B]

I am working on an ADAM Compatible Core for a private project.
My concern is with a company such as those who produce the Colectorvision Phoenix, takes other peoples work then uses it in their product.
If you look at the history they use a modified MiSTer Colecovision and Atari 2600 core which are freely available yet they make money selling the Phoenix.

I would like to add, in a factual matter, if they create their own cores then where are the ADAM and Intellivision cores?
In the few years Phoenix has been released that they have never written them so that should explain things.
Also, they have their cores on github and they are almost a one for one listing as the MiSTer cores modified to be used with their custom graphics core.
So you tell me...

[Captain_Red_B]

BTW, ADAM has a several 6801's. One in each peripheral. Printer, keyboard, disk drives and the tape drives which in order to save space was half on the main board with the rest of the drive as a plug in.

The Phoenix has no ADAM net connection for either the disk drive or DDP's so all their software would have to be used via SD Card so in reality all they have to do is patch the original game in order to bypass the call to the hardware. Pixelboy already did that when he pirated the ADAM Super Games.

[LamerDeluxe]

Would be great to have a proper ADAM core. It wasn't a common system and probably not many of them are still around. Interestingly our small local toy store had one for sale in the eighties, I was quite intrigued by it at the time. So odd that the power supply is housed inside the printer.

[bmack36]

I am working on an ADAM Compatible Core for a private project.
My concern is with a company such as those who produce the Colectorvision Phoenix, takes other peoples work then uses it in their product.
If you look at the history they use a modified MiSTer Colecovision and Atari 2600 core which are freely available yet they make money selling the Phoenix.

I would like to add, in a factual matter, if they create their own cores then where are the ADAM and Intellivision cores?
In the few years Phoenix has been released that they have never written them so that should explain things.
Also, they have their cores on github and they are almost a one for one listing as the MiSTer cores modified to be used with their custom graphics core.
So you tell me...

Neither of Phoenix cores was developed from "Mister" Source. The Coleco core started based of ZX-UNO colecovision core and was ported by the zx-uno porter. This core has been almost completely re-written and the source is available on Github. The atari2600 is based on the ZX-uno core and was done prior to the Mister Core. There was still a lot of work that went into the 2600 core to make it work with the Phoenix Hardware.

[bmack36]

I would like to add, in a factual matter, if they create their own cores then where are the ADAM and Intellivision cores?
In the few years Phoenix has been released that they have never written them so that should explain things.
Also, they have their cores on github and they are almost a one for one listing as the MiSTer cores modified to be used with their custom graphics core.
So you tell me...

If you actually compared the cores for the colecovision you would see they are very different in implementation and structure, but I guess that doesn't fit your narrative.

[pgimeno]

If you look at the history they use a modified MiSTer Colecovision and Atari 2600 core which are freely available yet they make money selling the Phoenix.

There's no problem with the fact they're making money, as long as they respect the license.

Many people believe that the spirit of the GNU Project is that you should not charge money for distributing copies of software, or that you should charge as little as possible—just enough to cover the cost. This is a misunderstanding.

Actually, we encourage people who redistribute free software to charge as much as they wish or can. If a license does not permit users to make copies and sell them, it is a nonfree license. If this seems surprising to you, please read on.

> https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/selling.html

It may sound to you like they are profiting from your work. Well, they took the work of assembling a certain amount of parts into hardware and sell that hardware. They profit from all this work, and people buy it because they appreciate this ready-made system. That's my view at least. If your software is GPL, and they use it, and modify it, and you want to benefit from their changes, and they don't want to give you the changes, THEN you have reasons to complain.

[Captain_Red_B]

Maybe I said to much.
But the reality is that they DID use MiSTer cores because I have analyzed the source and even the commenting was exactly the same as well as the revision dates. At least the versions I picked up from not only the MiSTer sources but the Phoenix github page.
Look, I do not own those cores and my version incorporates improved 6801's along with an ADAMNet port to use original hardware.
But, at the end of the day I am not about to release my version just so others can make money off of other peoples hard work.
If the creators of the Coleco cores are OK with theirs being exploited for profit then let them go after the perpetrators.

I have also wrote a 16k BIOS that goes along with it and runs at 20mhz so you might not be able to use it anyway.
That WILL BE copywrited and it will not end up on Milli's archive or Atari Age to be passed around like a pirated MSX rom converted to be used on the SGM.

[bmack36]

Maybe I said to much.
But the reality is that they DID use MiSTer cores because I have analyzed the source and even the commenting was exactly the same as well as the revision dates. At least the versions I picked up from not only the MiSTer sources but the Phoenix github page.
Look, I do not own those cores and my version incorporates improved 6801's along with an ADAMNet port to use original hardware.
But, at the end of the day I am not about to release my version just so others can make money off of other peoples hard work.
If the creators of the Coleco cores are OK with theirs being exploited for profit then let them go after the perpetrators.

I have also wrote a 16k BIOS that goes along with it and runs at 20mhz so you might not be able to use it anyway.
That WILL BE copywrited and it will not end up on Milli's archive or Atari Age to be passed around like a pirated MSX rom converted to be used on the SGM.

Any similar code is due to being based off the same Colecovision core that was written by Arnim Laeuger (not involved in the Mister project) in 2006 . This is the core that all FPGA colecovision cores are based off of (as far as I am aware). But like I mentioned, most of the core has been re-written and shared publicly so that cv cores on other projects can reference. Just so you are aware, we reached out to Arnim Laeuger before we released sources and he approved of the source and licenses changes we released.

We also worked with devs on the Mist/mister side as well to point out some issues in the Mist/Mister implementation. I believe those changes were fixed on the Mist side, but I am not sure they ever made it onto the Mister branch.

But I guess it is just easier to paint someone as stealing things for profit.

[Captain_Red_B]

BMACK36
I do not care either way.
I have no dog in the collectorvision fiasco that is plagued with issues they can not solve.
I LOOKED at both the Atari 2600 cores and they were identical 100% at the time I examined them.
Same with the Colecovision minus the F18 9938 or whatever it is graphics addon core.

The BIOS is unlicensed the HDMI is unlicensed and the only reason why there are no ADAM, Intellivion or anything else for that thing they built is because no one wrote the cores for them to steal and alter to fit their system.

As far as I know I am the only one with a second generation ADAM working the bugs out on a 20mhz based system in order to use the old software for compatibility. I am also the only owner of a working CPM 3.1 working on the stock ADAM.
I also have the missing 6801 stock Disk Drive source code.

What is it with you people over at Atari Age that keeps on believing that you have to share code.
Every last one of them are pirates right down to Toby selling Donkey Kong Arcade against Nintendo's cease and desist order.
I guess it is not technically selling if it is given away for free as long as you pay to get into their secret collectorvision club.
Same with the Pink Panther and the rest.

[akeley]

As far as I know I am the only one with a second generation ADAM working the bugs out on a 20mhz based system in order to use the old software for compatibility. I am also the only owner of a working CPM 3.1 working on the stock ADAM.
I also have the missing 6801 stock Disk Drive source code.

What is it with you people over at Atari Age that keeps on believing that you have to share code.
Every last one of them are pirates right down to Toby selling Donkey Kong Arcade against Nintendo's cease and desist order.
I guess it is not technically selling if it is given away for free as long as you pay to get into their secret collectorvision club.
Same with the Pink Panther and the rest.

You complain about paying, secret clubs, and even sharing, but I fail to see how working on a "private project" is supposed to be any better from these models. How does that benefit anybody but a handful of elitists? Aren't you pirates too, just on a smaller scale?

Or, what's the point of telling us about it, if we can't have it anyway?

I really don't care much about these modern-retro dramas, but this is some bizarre logic.

[Captain_Red_B]

Akeley

There was a question asked and I did my best to answer it with the reasons why. People create these cores from blood, sweat and tears just for someone, sometimes outside of jurisdiction, to steal then use them in their own projects for profit.

How am I an elitist or a pirate because I refuse to share MY hard work with someone who just wants free stuff.
How about you go online, learn how to develop an FPGA core and write a Coleco ADAM core.
Youtube is full of examples and there you go, your free class in doing it yourself.

If you look at all the emulators out there like COLEM, EmuTwo, CoolCV, MAME and the others they stop at Colecovision.
Use, some can run ADAM but they use hacks to get around the 6801 code to run the disk and DDP drives.
Mame is a bit better but they are an exception.
Even the SSD drives that came from Eric Pearson library does not read disk drive images like it was real hardware.
It took me a year of work just to get it right as well as trying to adjust he timing to work at 20mhz.

Sorry, I am not just going to give that away at this time.

[bmack36]

BMACK36
I do not care either way.
I have no dog in the collectorvision fiasco that is plagued with issues they can not solve.
I LOOKED at both the Atari 2600 cores and they were identical 100% at the time I examined them.
Same with the Colecovision minus the F18 9938 or whatever it is graphics addon core.

The BIOS is unlicensed the HDMI is unlicensed and the only reason why there are no ADAM, Intellivion or anything else for that thing they built is because no one wrote the cores for them to steal and alter to fit their system.

As far as I know I am the only one with a second generation ADAM working the bugs out on a 20mhz based system in order to use the old software for compatibility. I am also the only owner of a working CPM 3.1 working on the stock ADAM.
I also have the missing 6801 stock Disk Drive source code.

What is it with you people over at Atari Age that keeps on believing that you have to share code.
Every last one of them are pirates right down to Toby selling Donkey Kong Arcade against Nintendo's cease and desist order.
I guess it is not technically selling if it is given away for free as long as you pay to get into their secret collectorvision club.
Same with the Pink Panther and the rest.

You really lose all credibility with this post. The cores could never be 100% identical as the hardware is drastically different between Mister and Phoenix. Just take a look at the main cv file from both:

https://github.com/CollectorVision/Phoe ... vision.vhd
https://github.com/MiSTer-devel/ColecoV ... onsole.vhd

You also have several facts wrong in your post like Toby selling DKA. Toby is part of Collectorvision not Opcode Games which got the C&D from Nintendo.

To reiterate nothing has been "Stolen". That is not how open source works. Then according to your definition of stolen, a lot of Mister cores would be Stolen as they were not the original target device of the base core (which is not really the case, as with the Phoenix)

To also be clear no one has asked you for your code or for your help.

[pgimeno]

I get it, you don't want to give your code for free. Well, sell it or keep it for yourself. You don't have an obligation to reciprocate to the community for all you get for free. It's just good manners, but you don't have to.

[ericgus09]

Pity ..

But like the Taylor's TRS8 Coco3 de-10 core that first came out .. it was also not released, stayed closed source and was only later available if you payed for it via being a paid patron, and while it was great for a short while, someone else has just released an alternative open TRS80 Coco3 core and that now will be the one people talk about, getting all the focus and attention and being welcomed into the family of mister cores, it will also now get future updates (like the new scan-line/shadow mask enhancements and such) things the first closed coco3 core is likely never to get and eventually will get to the point where it wont even run on the latest mister revision, the closed core is eventually going to fade away into obscurity since its not really an official core now and likely with each update to the mister base will become less and less able to run.. I have no doubt the same thing will play out here, eventually *someone else* .. WILL create an open ADAM core and they will be the one noticed for doing it.. I respect this persons choices but honestly it seems that this task is better left to someone else hopefully in the near future who is in agreement with the prerequisites for mister core creation/development etc. and doesnt mind releasing it to the open source community like all the others that have preceded it and ones that will come after it in the future.

[Captain_Red_B]

Pity ..

But like the Taylor's TRS8 Coco3 de-10 core that first came out .. it was also not released, stayed closed source and was only later available if you payed for it via being a paid patron, and while it was great for a short while, someone else has just released an alternative open TRS80 Coco3 core and that now will be the one people talk about, getting all the focus and attention and being welcomed into the family of mister cores, it will also now get future updates (like the new scan-line/shadow mask enhancements and such) things the first closed coco3 core is likely never to get and eventually will get to the point where it wont even run on the latest mister revision, the closed core is eventually going to fade away into obscurity since its not really an official core now and likely with each update to the mister base will become less and less able to run.. I have no doubt the same thing will play out here, eventually *someone else* .. WILL create an open ADAM core and they will be the one noticed for doing it.. I respect this persons choices but honestly it seems that this task is better left to someone else hopefully in the near future who is in agreement with the prerequisites for mister core creation/development etc. and doesnt mind releasing it to the open source community like all the others that have preceded it and ones that will come after it in the future.

Is this not how it works?
Develop a better version that you can sell cheaper or give away.

[Captain_Red_B]

BMACK36

https://github.com/CollectorVision/Phoe ... vision.vhd
https://github.com/MiSTer-devel/ColecoV ... onsole.vhd

You also have several facts wrong in your post like Toby selling DKA. Toby is part of Collectorvision not Opcode Games which got the C&D from Nintendo.

To reiterate nothing has been "Stolen". That is not how open source works. Then according to your definition of stolen, a lot of Mister cores would be Stolen as they were not the original target device of the base core (which is not really the case, as with the Phoenix)

To also be clear no one has asked you for your code or for your help.

All I can say is WOW...
I've met some people but once in a while someone just speaks without doing the research first.

[ericgus09]

Is this not how it works?
Develop a better version that you can sell cheaper or give away.

Yea but his private "better" version is falling behind in terms of features, compatibility and frankly recognition.. its rapidly getting to the point where no one will want to run it since it slowly breaking from all the changes to the mister base and it will no longer run, or run well/with bugs/crashing with the most current mister build .. Also the new open version is starting to surpass it in nearly every facet as others are contributing updates, features and enhancements (being open you can have this). From what I can see, he is unable (or unwilling) to keep up with the base mister changes on his own to his private closed source core, falling behind, and being unwilling to open his source and request it to be in the main mister source it will keep falling behind since its not considered an "official" core and is therefor outside it .. in the long run it doesn't really work long-term though and in this case its painfully apparent. Users are unlikely to want to maintain a dedicated antique build of the mister core just to run this one out of date private core for any length of time. I suppose he could abandon the "mister" framework and roll his own, but then its not really a mister core at that point and keeping it closed, he can't really leverage any of the mister sources either.

I still stand by what I say, eventually someone WILL come out with an open core and it will become part of the mister mainline source.. its not really "if" so much as "when" now given the sheer number of other platforms and systems already in the mainline and/or being worked on in the pipeline.

And there are already a number of other open mister cores one could use as a base to start to build one.

[Captain_Red_B]

Thank you everyone for the great debate, if you want to call it that, but I did not come to this site for this reason.

It turned into gas lighting which I thought was over with in this day and age but I was wrong.

How many innovators and creators have been thrown off Atari Age or the ADAM FB Page trying to defend their work because it is a threat against Collectorvision, Pixel Boy, Eduardo Mello and a few others. Somehow it turns out to be the same players over and over.
Ban, Censor, whatever. I know of 11 creators that have been stifled in the last 2 years.
Well, this is why you are stuck with pretty much nothing new other than the ADAM FUJI-NET device.

You want to know why there is no new open source ADAM core well look in the mirror buddy!

So, in order to save face and not say something to get me banned I'm done with this spirited debate. Thank you for your input.

[Captain_Red_B]

Is this not how it works?
Develop a better version that you can sell cheaper or give away.

Yea but his private "better" version is falling behind in terms of features, compatibility and frankly recognition.. its rapidly getting to the point where no one will want to run it since it slowly breaking from all the changes to the mister base and it will no longer run, or run well/with bugs/crashing with the most current mister build .. Also the new open version is starting to surpass it in nearly every facet as others are contributing updates, features and enhancements (being open you can have this). From what I can see, he is unable (or unwilling) to keep up with the base mister changes on his own to his private closed source core, falling behind, and being unwilling to open his source and request it to be in the main mister source it will keep falling behind since its not considered an "official" core and is therefor outside it .. in the long run it doesn't really work long-term though and in this case its painfully apparent. Users are unlikely to want to maintain a dedicated antique build of the mister core just to run this one out of date private core for any length of time. I suppose he could abandon the "mister" framework and roll his own, but then its not really a mister core at that point and keeping it closed, he can't really leverage any of the mister sources either.

I still stand by what I say, eventually someone WILL come out with an open core and it will become part of the mister mainline source.. its not really "if" so much as "when" now given the sheer number of other platforms and systems already in the mainline and/or being worked on in the pipeline.

And there are already a number of other open mister cores one could use as a base to start to build one.

I have 4 FPGA development platforms.
This is a commercial project but do not lose faith.
Somehow I always come through and MiSTer has not been ruled out.
ADAM is a love from my childhood and this has been a 2 year project at this point.
I have to recover some costs so unless someone writes an open source version you will have to wait for mine.
3D Printers, Boxes, Labels and employees cost $$ brother.

[pgimeno]

This is a commercial project but do not lose faith.
Somehow I always come through and MiSTer has not been ruled out.

Are you planning on writing your own MiSTer-compatible framework as e.g. Jotego has done? If not, then you should either offer your project's source code, or consider MiSTer as ruled out. This is an important question because it will determine whether your project is on-topic on this forum. If it won't be available for MiSTer then it's off-topic.

[german_user]

I'm not a software developer and I certainly don't know the connections, especially as far as the Adam or Coleco story is concerned. As an outsider and Mister user, I can certainly say that the Mister project wouldn't be as successful if everyone thought and acted like that. The open source idea has made this really successful.
If everyone thought only of profit, the project would certainly be dead long ago. I don't really want to say more about it.

[ron]

Here: viewtopic.php?f=14&t=4758

Regards

[alanswx]

First release of an open source Adam Core is up.. Exciting! Let us know what the bugs are.

[ericgus09]

still stand by what I say, eventually someone WILL come out with an open core and it will become part of the mister mainline source.. its not really "if" so much as "when" now given the sheer number of other platforms and systems already in the mainline and/or being worked on in the pipeline.

Well that didn't take as long as I thought it would .. !

[mrcoleco]

Hi, this core does not support writing to disk (DSK) or tape (DDP) images. As a result, games on tape/disk all hang when they reach the high score table at the end of a single successful round of play. In addition, applications are not usable. Might someone out there be able to add the ability to write to disk and tape images, so that all software will be usable? Thank you.