Destruction Derby 2

[Captain FPGA]

There anyway to fix the slowdown? At first I thought it was the screen resolution but I can't find the file or setting where to adjust the size. Heard the game is supposed to work, there must be a way to make it run better.

[ToothbrushThreepwood]

The min cpu specs are 90MHz Pentium. There’s no way to fix that.

[Captain FPGA]

Can anyone else confirm this game isn't working? Couldn't find it on the compatibility list.

[SuperBabyHix]

The game runs as expected. It requires a much more powerful CPU than what the ao486 core has. You have to remember back in the day just meeting the minimum system requirements didn't guarantee the game would run at what we now consider "playable" frame rates. The Mister core falls below even the minimum requirements for this game.

[Captain FPGA]

The game runs as expected. It requires a much more powerful CPU than what the ao486 core has. You have to remember back in the day just meeting the minimum system requirements didn't guarantee the game would run at what we now consider "playable" frame rates. The Mister core falls below even the minimum requirements for this game.

Wow you just blew my mind! Sure I knew about games requiring minimum spec requirements, I thought that translated to if you're playing something like Overwatch with 4 GB of RAM then prepare for 25 frames per second. You know something low but reasonable that wouldn't hurt the experience.

Your telling me there were games released back then which ran at like 9 frames per second, so long as they met the minimum system requirement that was acceptable?

This thing playable on OG XBOX? Lol! If a custom port doesn't exist for Xbox then my only recourse is DOS emulator or grab the PSX,Saturn,N64 rom.

[Chris23235]

This was what the game looked on a Pentium 120 without 3D-Acceleration

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i0EjmeCNRyA

[FPGA64]

The original Xbox came out in 2001. The Pentium was released in 1993. The Mister is a 486 without a FPU and no 3d Acceleration.

The core is the limits of what the DE10 can do. Any 3d games are laregly beyond its capability.

[Captain FPGA]

The original Xbox came out in 2001. The Pentium was released in 1993. The Mister is a 486 without a FPU and no 3d Acceleration.

The core is the limits of what the DE10 can do. Any 3d games are laregly beyond its capability.

Understood, I'll just find another way to play it.

[ToothbrushThreepwood]

The original Xbox came out in 2001. The Pentium was released in 1993. The Mister is a 486 without a FPU and no 3d Acceleration.

The core is the limits of what the DE10 can do. Any 3d games are laregly beyond its capability.

Understood, I'll just find another way to play it.

Just wait for Robert/FPGAzumSpaß to work his magic and the PS1 core to release, then you can play the PS-version of DD2, which is identical to the PC version as I recall.

[SuperBabyHix]

Your telling me there were games released back then which ran at like 9 frames per second, so long as they met the minimum system requirement that was acceptable?

Yes, that is how it was. Was it acceptable? Not really, but that's just how it was. I guess things have changed for the better in that regard.
But you also have to put it in to context of what was considered acceptable performance back then. A 3D game running at 15 FPS was considered playable. Star Fox on the SNES, which was a highly praised game at the time, rarely tops 15FPS. The 3Dfx Voodoo blew peoples minds because it ran Quake at 640x480 at 30 FPS...30.

There are going to be exceptions to every rule, but for the performance level of the ao486 core you will probably be hard pressed to get great performance out of most 3D games made past 1993 or 94. And that's not a slight to the amazing work on the core. It has great features, compatibility, and performance as long as your expectations are realistic.

[Captain FPGA]

Your telling me there were games released back then which ran at like 9 frames per second, so long as they met the minimum system requirement that was acceptable?

Yes, that is how it was. Was it acceptable? Not really, but that's just how it was. I guess things have changed for the better in that regard.
But you also have to put it in to context of what was considered acceptable performance back then. A 3D game running at 15 FPS was considered playable. Star Fox on the SNES, which was a highly praised game at the time, rarely tops 15FPS. The 3Dfx Voodoo blew peoples minds because it ran Quake at 640x480 at 30 FPS...30.

There are going to be exceptions to every rule, but for the performance level of the ao486 core you will probably be hard pressed to get great performance out of most 3D games made past 1993 or 94. And that's not a slight to the amazing work on the core. It has great features, compatibility, and performance as long as your expectations are realistic.

Things really are different back then. The core itself is amazing for the little engine that could, the de10 nano. I'm amazed and perplexed by the standards from way back then. Never played SNES Star Fox so I can't relate, I do have the N64 version though.

The original Xbox came out in 2001. The Pentium was released in 1993. The Mister is a 486 without a FPU and no 3d Acceleration.

The core is the limits of what the DE10 can do. Any 3d games are laregly beyond its capability.

Understood, I'll just find another way to play it.

Just wait for Robert/FPGAzumSpaß to work his magic and the PS1 core to release, then you can play the PS-version of DD2, which is identical to the PC version as I recall.

That or I can download it for my PSIO. At least until he gets the infamous PSX Mister core up and running.

Were there any substantive differences between the PS1 version port the AO486 version?

[ToothbrushThreepwood]

Your telling me there were games released back then which ran at like 9 frames per second, so long as they met the minimum system requirement that was acceptable?

Yes, that is how it was. Was it acceptable? Not really, but that's just how it was. I guess things have changed for the better in that regard.
But you also have to put it in to context of what was considered acceptable performance back then. A 3D game running at 15 FPS was considered playable. Star Fox on the SNES, which was a highly praised game at the time, rarely tops 15FPS. The 3Dfx Voodoo blew peoples minds because it ran Quake at 640x480 at 30 FPS...30.

There are going to be exceptions to every rule, but for the performance level of the ao486 core you will probably be hard pressed to get great performance out of most 3D games made past 1993 or 94. And that's not a slight to the amazing work on the core. It has great features, compatibility, and performance as long as your expectations are realistic.

Things really are different back then. The core itself is amazing for the little engine that could, the de10 nano. I'm amazed and perplexed by the standards from way back then. Never played SNES Star Fox so I can't relate, I do have the N64 version though.

Understood, I'll just find another way to play it.

Just wait for Robert/FPGAzumSpaß to work his magic and the PS1 core to release, then you can play the PS-version of DD2, which is identical to the PC version as I recall.

That or I can download it for my PSIO. At least until he gets the infamous PSX Mister core up and running.

Were there any substantive differences between the PS1 version port the AO486 version?

Not really. It wasn’t a port as much as the game was designed for both platforms from the beginning. Graphics were better and less buggy on PS than the the PC versions, according to https://destructionderby.fandom.com/wik ... on_Derby_2

[Chris23235]

That or I can download it for my PSIO. At least until he gets the infamous PSX Mister core up and running.

Were there any substantive differences between the PS1 version port the AO486 version?

Like many games back in the day the PC version supported a higher resolution then the PSX version.

Destruction Derby supported up to 800x600 pixels while the PSX version ran in fixed 320x240. As textures weren't in a higher resolution on the PC this resulted "only" in worse aliasing on the PSX but as the game ran on a TV back then this wasn't such an issue. As far as I know the PC version only had 256 colours (at least in SVGA), while the PSX version showed its grahpics in 16 Bit.

[Captain FPGA]

That or I can download it for my PSIO. At least until he gets the infamous PSX Mister core up and running.

Were there any substantive differences between the PS1 version port the AO486 version?

Like many games back in the day the PC version supported a higher resolution then the PSX version.

Destruction Derby supported up to 800x600 pixels while the PSX version ran in fixed 320x240. As textures weren't in a higher resolution on the PC this resulted "only" in worse aliasing on the PSX but as the game ran on a TV back then this wasn't such an issue. As far as I know the PC version only had 256 colours (at least in SVGA), while the PSX version showed its grahpics in 16 Bit.

What about the performance you guys? Let's say I have a high powered Pentium or higher PC how does that stack up to the PSX version? By the sound of it the AO486 version gives you a higher resolution than Playstation.

[Chris23235]

You can judge the performance of the game by the video I posted earlier. A Pentium 120 was pretty decent in 1995. The performance of the game on such a machine was okay, but as PC games in 1995 hadn't support for hardware 3D-Accelaration everything had to be done by the CPU and so wasn't anything near 60 FPS in a game like Destruction Derby 2. 3D-Games in general where targeting 30 FPS but usually failed to accomplish this frame rate.

Usually a fast Pentium gave you about the same performance as the PSX when running the game in 640x480 but not with the same features as the PSX (transperancy, 16 Bit colour depth).

[throAU]

Your telling me there were games released back then which ran at like 9 frames per second, so long as they met the minimum system requirement that was acceptable?

Dude.... in the early era of 3d graphics (early 90s, late 80s), it was not uncommon to see frame rates of 5 FPS in some games.

I'm not even joking, go see some video of say, Amiga 500 flight simulators. Or hard drivin'. Or even say, F-19 stealth fighter running on a 286.

It was acceptable because that's all there was. That's all the hardware was capable of running. We played like that back in the day because that's all we had.

And yeah even most PS1 games targeted 30 fps. And the PS1 had dedicated 3d hardware, the PC did not.

[H6rdc0re]

Only hope for significantly better performance on the Mister is hybrid emulation. Using one of the ARM cores for CPU code and the FPGA for GPU/Sound emulation perhaps even allowing for a simple 3D accelerator. A single ARM A9 Cortex should be able to run with performance comparable to Pentium 2 or maybe even a low Pentium 3. The real question is if anyone is willing to do all that work. Perhaps we might get a FPU implementation on the FPGA in future as there's still some room on the FPGA.

Would it be possible to use a Raspberry Pi to do run the CPU code in combination with the Mister running the GPU and Sound? Perhaps something like that could be the solution.

[Neocaron]

Only hope for significantly better performance on the Mister is hybrid emulation. Using one of the ARM cores for CPU code and the FPGA for GPU/Sound emulation perhaps even allowing for a simple 3D accelerator. A single ARM A9 Cortex should be able to run with performance comparable to Pentium 2 or maybe even a low Pentium 3. The real question is if anyone is willing to do all that work. Perhaps we might get a FPU implementation on the FPGA in future as there's still some room on the FPGA.

Would it be possible to use a Raspberry Pi to do run the CPU code in combination with the Mister running the GPU and Sound? Perhaps something like that could be the solution.

foft is back at it with the Amiga, and it seems to be very promising, so the idea of someone making an hybrid a0486 or Pentium would be mindblowing...
The easiest would probably be an overcharged ao486 that could clock super high, then add FPUS. This would be enough to run many many games in software mode. 3D acceleration would be the next big thing (running on the fpga). Anyway the future is bright for the Mister, who could have imagined we would get PSX and Saturn 3 years ago? Maybe in 5 years time we will have an hybrid N64 core, who the hell knows

[throAU]

I doubt you'll get pentium performance out of the ARM based HPS running x86 emulation.

You'll get reasonable amiga performance via 68k emulation is my bet, but pentiums are a LOT faster than 68k, particularly at floating point.

Maybe I'll be proven wrong but...