Atari 7800 / 2600

[Kitrinx]

It sounds like the GRS is emulating a joystick rather than the mouse, or perhaps has special support. I don't know why it's disconnecting for you, perhaps a wire is loose?

As for mr. spinner, it seems like perhaps something is wrong in how you set it up, that's clearly not correct behavior.

Well, I am happy to say I solved both of my problems. However, this uncovered new problems.

It turns out the problem with the GRS spinner disconnecting randomly was due to a flakey USB port in my custom built NES Pi 4 MiSTer case. I used a different port and it worked perfectly without disconnecting. I will have to see if I can fix the flakey USB port.

I got the Mr. Spinner to work by reversing the two wires inside the paddles that were originally there connected to the potentiometers. Originally it didn't matter the order of the two wires that went to the potentiometer pins since they were in series. However, adding the ground wire to the third pin made the polarity matter on the first two pins and they were backwards in both paddles.

Regarding the new issues with the Mr. Spinner:
- The two paddles influence each other. This is easy to see in Kaboom in game mode 2 (2-players, one at a time). If I move the main controller for player one, it will move back and forth almost the whole range. If I move the other paddle for player two during player one's turn, player one moves slightly. If I move player two's paddle all the way to the left, I can't get player one to move all the way to the right (until I move player two's paddle all the way to the right). The same happens with player two being influenced by player one's paddle. I checked in Windows and it has the same problem. This is a problem with the Mr. Spinner Arduino code, not the 7800 core.
- The full range of the paddle is used. On a real Atari, only a portion of the paddle range gets used, and it varies from game to game which portion of the paddle gets used. In Kaboom, I have to move the paddle very far back and forth compared to a real Atari. From what I recall the 2600daptor D9 gets this right, but only currently works with one player with the core since it is a single two-axis device instead of two single axis devices like the Mr. Spinner.

As of right now, using the GRS spinner is preferred because I can adjust the sensitivity with the spinner_throttle value so it feels right when playing games. I don't have this option with the paddles.

the 7800 core will use some smart code to automatically determine the range of the paddles that the game is trying to use, and map that range from -127 to 127 of a regular analog stick. With any kind of adapter or spinner it's up to you to get the sensitivity of these devices into a comfortable range. The normalization of the range should make it easier to find a single point that feels good for all games. I am pretty sure mr spinner has a means of adjusting sensitivity.

[thorr]

the 7800 core will use some smart code to automatically determine the range of the paddles that the game is trying to use, and map that range from -127 to 127 of a regular analog stick. With any kind of adapter or spinner it's up to you to get the sensitivity of these devices into a comfortable range. The normalization of the range should make it easier to find a single point that feels good for all games. I am pretty sure mr spinner has a means of adjusting sensitivity.

Thanks. That is what I suspected. It sounds like I (or someone else) will need to modify and fix the Mr. Spinner code in order to get the real paddles to behave properly without the bug I mentioned with the two paddles affecting each other, and I will see if I can find a way to adjust the sensitivity as well. I am currently working on other projects so it will probably be awhile before I can look into this. For now, I can use the 2600daptor D9 with one paddle, and hopefully the maker of this will fix it to work with both paddles and I won't need to do anything with Mr. Spinner at that point.

[thorr]

Please let me know if this resolves the star raider problem (and hopefully doesn't break any other input). I also added some keys for the switches, but they're a little different than stella, because it's a lot easier for me to make them work the same as the buttons.

Has this been released to the official core? I think I tried the latest update and Star Raiders is still broken. Also, if you could make it so spinners work with Indy 500, that would be awesome. Thanks!

[Kitrinx]

Please let me know if this resolves the star raider problem (and hopefully doesn't break any other input). I also added some keys for the switches, but they're a little different than stella, because it's a lot easier for me to make them work the same as the buttons.

Has this been released to the official core? I think I tried the latest update and Star Raiders is still broken. Also, if you could make it so spinners work with Indy 500, that would be awesome. Thanks!

not yet, I got derailed by the holidays and working on trying to get some other things in. I'll get to it soon.

[Swainy]

I think that I’ve already asked this but I’ll try again.

Is there a way for Commando on the Atari 7800 to play the in game music? There was a pokey chip included inside the original cartridge release that allowed in game music. Same goes for Ballblazer.

[Kitrinx]

yes, both of them already do. Make sure you're using a decent set of roms as it relies on proper header information. I suggest Trebor's pro pack, which you can easily google.

[dyne]

yes, both of them already do. Make sure you're using a decent set of roms as it relies on proper header information. I suggest Trebor's pro pack, which you can easily google.

Thank you for this. Do you have a 2600 and 5200 set recommendation?

Also with the Atari 2600 core being sunset and the 7800 core taking over for it, how do we handle roms? Put the 2600 games in the 7800 folder now?

[Sigismond0]

Thank you for this. Do you have a 2600 and 5200 set recommendation?

Also with the Atari 2600 core being sunset and the 7800 core taking over for it, how do we handle roms? Put the 2600 games in the 7800 folder now?

Yep, that's what I did. I have Games/Atari7800/Atari7800 and Games/Atari7800/Atari2600. Same way you might organize for SMS/Game Gear or Colecovision/SG-1000. You can always browse to Games/Atari2600 in the selection menu, but that's a hassle compared to just having two sets in the 7800 folder.

[dyne]

Thank you for this. Do you have a 2600 and 5200 set recommendation?

Also with the Atari 2600 core being sunset and the 7800 core taking over for it, how do we handle roms? Put the 2600 games in the 7800 folder now?

Yep, that's what I did. I have Games/Atari7800/Atari7800 and Games/Atari7800/Atari2600. Same way you might organize for SMS/Game Gear or Colecovision/SG-1000. You can always browse to Games/Atari2600 in the selection menu, but that's a hassle compared to just having two sets in the 7800 folder.

Thank you. I was always wondering how MiSTer handled subfolders and never tried setting them up.

[Lightwave]

I just put my 2600 games directly in the folder root, as 99.9% of the time that's what I'll be playing with the core.

The 7800 games go inside their own folder in there.

[Sigismond0]

Thank you. I was always wondering how MiSTer handled subfolders and never tried setting them up.

If you're not using subfolders, you're not living! My structure looks something like this:

KEOwXbq.png (3.78 KiB) Viewed 20799 times

Do similar things in GB core to separate out GB and GBC games or WonderSwan core for WS/WSC. Coleco and SMS core as mentioned earlier.

[dyne]

Haha. Just did it with the 7800 folder and it's quite nice. Now I've fallen down a rabbit hole.

Also I glossed over the MS/GG, Coleco/SG100 info. I didn't realize those also pulled double duty. I know WHY they do, just didn't know they did.

[skooter]

SG-1000 is also supported in the MS/GG core.

[Wave]

If you're not using subfolders, you're not living! My structure looks something like this:

KEOwXbq.png

Do similar things in GB core to separate out GB and GBC games or WonderSwan core for WS/WSC. Coleco and SMS core as mentioned earlier.

Totally.

If using an sd card, I'd also encourage zipping each folder to greatly reduce the number of separate, tiny files on the card. This will help reduce space wastage from inefficient cluster size. IIRC before zipping I had one 40MB folder full of tiny ROMs consuming 100MB on the card.

[Lightwave]

If using an sd card, I'd also encourage zipping each folder to greatly reduce the number of separate, tiny files on the card.

Does the .zip file need to be made without compression? If it can be compressed, does it affect folder navigation or ROM loading speed from SD?

[Wave]

No; I zipped every ROM folder with maximum compression and the speed is fine. NeoGeo is a tad pokier than others (much bigger zips) but it's fine.

2600 folder looks like this, other systems are similar:

GBmUj3s.png (22.34 KiB) Viewed 20470 times

The only console ROMs not zipped at the folder level are optical disc images, which are .chd.

Btw, here is the batch file I came up with to turn any top-level folders it encounters into max-compression zip archives of the same name.

Code: Select all

REM this has a bug in that bob.jpg and bob.gif would both end up in the same .zip archive
REM if they both existed in the same folder. maybe this won't happen with ROM folders tho?
REM great reference to the weird filename stuff below:
REM https://stackoverflow.com/questions/5034076/what-does-dp0-mean-and-how-does-it-work

echo This batch file will turn any top-level folders it finds into .zip archives.
echo Kill it now to prevent this, or press a key to execute.
pause

for /d %%I in (*.*) do @"C:\Program Files\7-Zip\7z.exe" a -tzip "%%I.zip" "%%~dI%%~pI%%I\*" -mx9
pause

So for example if you put this .bat file in a folder with three subfolders (folder1, folder2, folder3) it will turn them into folder1.zip, folder2.zip, and folder3.zip. This version will not delete the source folders.

[Lightwave]

Just to clarify, do each of your zip files contain the original ROM folder itself, or only the ROMs that were inside each folder?

[Wave]

The latter, each zip contains just the ROMs or whatever else the original folder contained. When using MiSTer the named zip itself acts as a folder since MiSTer navigates them transparently as if they were just regular folders (except with bigger zips, like mentioned with NeoGeo, there may be a brief pause before it displays contents).

Btw, another benefit: These zips will copy over to an SD card or whatever you use for MiSTer much more quickly than the tens of thousands of individual small files would've (or at least, that's the case on Windows 10).

[pgimeno]

Zipped disk images have the problem (or the advantage, depending on how you look at it) that anything you write to them is lost. That's because Main decompresses the file when selecting it, and erases the decompressed file when finished.

I usually zip files by initial, so I have 1.zip (for all numbers), then A.zip, B.zip, C.zip, D.zip ...

This can be easily done in Linux with a command like this (replacing .extension with the actual file extension, e.g. .dsk or .rom):

Code: Select all

for i in {A..Z} ; do zip -9m "$i".zip "$i"*.extension ; done

and then zipping the remaining files with:

Code: Select all

zip -9m 1.zip *.extension

[PhantombrainM]

Hey there,
I tried the Atari 7800 core today as the replacement for the 2600. Works good so far. Thank you.
It has more border black around the picture in non integer mode on my 5:4 LCD than the old core but otherwise it's playing all stuff I threw at it.

Question: How can I use the normal keyboard (the one I'm controlling the OSD with too)? I can't get it to work. I even tried to delete the 7800 .cfg's and input maps and started from scratch.

I use an original Competition Pro with an USB Adapter which only has 1 Button. For River Raid for example I need to press "Select / Start". I used Key 1 or 2 on my keyboard. Or for Tomcat F14 I need the difficulty switches too.

But nothing happens, even when I reconfigure the keyboard. I then found out that even up down left right in Pacman will not work with the keyboard. It seems it's not implemented at all but for the OSD. (It's working in other cores and the old 2600 core).

regards,
PhantombrainM

[Kitrinx]

Hey there,
I tried the Atari 7800 core today as the replacement for the 2600. Works good so far. Thank you.
It has more border black around the picture in non integer mode on my 5:4 LCD than the old core but otherwise it's playing all stuff I threw at it.

Question: How can I use the normal keyboard (the one I'm controlling the OSD with too)? I can't get it to work. I even tried to delete the 7800 .cfg's and input maps and started from scratch.

I use an original Competition Pro with an USB Adapter which only has 1 Button. For River Raid for example I need to press "Select / Start". I used Key 1 or 2 on my keyboard. Or for Tomcat F14 I need the difficulty switches too.

But nothing happens, even when I reconfigure the keyboard. I then found out that even up down left right in Pacman will not work with the keyboard. It seems it's not implemented at all but for the OSD. (It's working in other cores and the old 2600 core).

regards,
PhantombrainM

The 7800 core uses the keyboard for various things beyond joystick emulation, so it does not default to joystick emulation mode. In the mister framework, the numlock key is intended to switch between modes, including joystick emulation.

[PhantombrainM]

Thank you Kitrinx. It worked. I never used this feature before.

Unfortunatly I had to grab my USB KB of my PC because I only use a very small BT KB for MISTER which has no num lock key.
Is there a way to save this behaviour as a default?
I tried to save the configs in the core but they are gone when I reboot. I also looked at the mister.ini because it's in the framework but haven't seen such an option to set num always to joystick.

[Kitrinx]

Thank you Kitrinx. It worked. I never used this feature before.

Unfortunatly I had to grab my USB KB of my PC because I only use a very small BT KB for MISTER which has no num lock key.
Is there a way to save this behaviour as a default?
I tried to save the configs in the core but they are gone when I reboot. I also looked at the mister.ini because it's in the framework but haven't seen such an option to set num always to joystick.

I don't know of any way to change the default mode or switching key within cores. You can post an issue under mister_main, since this is a framework related thing.

[rhester72]

Has anyone else noticed a strange white spot ahead of your car in 2600 Enduro? It doesn't show up on snow or at night, but during daytime driving it's maybe 2-3 carlengths ahead of your car and 'follows' it left to right. I've adjusted every setting and filter I can find and can't get rid of it...it's very odd.

EDIT: Scratch that. Hard reset MiSTer and it's gone. *shrugs*

[rhester72]

Is it still not possible to use keyboard for switches and joystick for input? (Ideally, I'd like to use a legitimate 7800 controller, but that'd be difficult for some 2600 games that used the switches as input.)

This would be great. Select and start are already mapped to F1 and F2. It would be great to have Left A/B, Right A/B and the Colour/BW switch mapped to F3, F4 and F5. The way it is done now makes it impossible to play e.g. Phaser Patrol with a 1 or 2 Button Joystick.

Sure, I can do this. No problem.

Not in any way trying to be ungrateful or a pain in the ass, but this doesn't seem to yet be part of the public core...any idea if/when that may happen? It makes Starmaster completely unplayable with a single-button stick.

[PhantombrainM]

Oh, I didn't know F1 and F2 ist Select and Start. That solved me issues with the keyboard.
But you are right, some games like F14 Tomcat need the difficulty switches for the landing flaps etc. So F3 F4 for the difficulty switches (toggle) would be awesome.

On F14 Tomcat you can see the red bars left and right of the aircraft and the switches to check that behaviour. OSD by the way does nothing when changing from A to B or vice versa. Maybe it's only for 7800?

[rhester72]

Really? When I assign difficulty switches to gamepad buttons, my OSD reflects the change every time I push it, even when playing 2600 games (in the 7800 core - the 2600-dedicated core is deprecated and not what's being discussed).

[redsteakraw]

Since the 2600 has 2 player for the paddles and has so many different controllers I am thinking about just getting an Atari Snac adapter. I don't want to deal with configuring and swapping out configs for every game. My question is who currently has the 2600 / 7800 Snac adapter, how well does it work specifically with the paddle controllers / keyboard controllers and where did you get it from. And hey if I feel like getting the atarivox I guess I could use that as well.

[skooter]

SNAC doesn't work for paddles because they require analog input. There is a workaround using the ADC In, but it is not supported by the 7800 core. There is more info on this topic some pages behind.

[redsteakraw]

SNAC doesn't work for paddles because they require analog input. There is a workaround using the ADC In, but it is not supported by the 7800 core. There is more info on this topic some pages behind.

I am pretty sure I saw a 2600 snac with a headphone jack to tap into the ADC. I have the ADC so that wouldn't be a big hurdle for me. It is a bummer though that it doesn't work yet.