Amiga CD32

[robinsonb5]

But I think maybe the CD32 does use Akiko for the CD drive somehow, even when the game itself does not use the chip.

It does, yes - Akiko is primarily an interface between the Amiga and a CD drive. It has several DMA ringbuffers in system RAM (which can be either Chip or 24-bit Fast RAM, if present), for commands, responses, subchannel data and CD data. I seem to remember reading somewhere that the Chunky2Planar converter is just something Commodore added because they had some leftover space in the chip!

[Caldor]

I was testing my Squirrel boot floppy yesterday and I can run a lot of CD32 games using it, but that worked already I guess. I also tried using a CD32 kickrom to see if maybe it would boot an ISO file with a CD32 game, but that did not seem to work. I even tried making all 4 drives into CD drives and mounting images in them.

[xFlesk]

it would be nice to have single cd32 core in console section with *.chd support. many great stuff is to discover
i hope someone consider it as a thing
cheers

[FPGA64]

I own an original CD32. There is very little of value for it thats not already on the Amiga. It was the most disapointing Amiga ever released, cripled by commodore so it could not become a cheap 1200 with a CD drive.

[xFlesk]

i understand and know what you say but im an amiga fanboy and i appreciate all amiga's. i have pretty much entire database on my custom made workbench on minimig and its great
still thinking that having a cd32 as a console core would be awesome for fun and of course for hardware preservation

[FoxbatStargazer]

Cannon Fodder FMV intro
CDTV Xenon 2 w/ Redbook soundtrack

What more incentive do you need?

[Jlz]

Disposable Hero CD32 is pretty special too. Runs much nicer than floppy version and better soundtrack

[xFlesk]

Misadventures of Flink is also great plus there's tons custom made cd32 cd's

[Swainy]

I’d love to see a CD32 core.

[KremlingKuthroat19]

The thing that's appealing about the prospects of a CD32 is threefold:
1) It is the definitive version of the Amiga games (since it has CD audio support)
2) It's backwards compatible with the CDTV (Wikipedia states that it isn't compatible with earlier CDTV games, but I don't know the accuracy of that claim). If it is 100% backwards compatible, it would be great to have a 2 for 1 core like the 7800 core.
3) It's got a handful of exclusives (Defender of the Crown II, Amiga CD32 Football, etc.)

Plus, there are lots of people, myself included, who simply don't like playing with a keyboard and mouse. The Amiga CD32 is a consolized Amiga, and that in and of itself is very appealing tbh.

[madsdk]

Big fan of the CD32 here as well, and I'd love to see a dedicated CD32 core/mode, so that we can load full CD images

[chrisy]

The thing that's appealing about the prospects of a CD32 is threefold:
1) It is the definitive version of the Amiga games (since it has CD audio support)
2) It's backwards compatible with the CDTV (Wikipedia states that it isn't compatible with earlier CDTV games, but I don't know the accuracy of that claim). If it is 100% backwards compatible, it would be great to have a 2 for 1 core like the 7800 core.
3) It's got a handful of exclusives (Defender of the Crown II, Amiga CD32 Football, etc.)

Plus, there are lots of people, myself included, who simply don't like playing with a keyboard and mouse. The Amiga CD32 is a consolized Amiga, and that in and of itself is very appealing tbh.

4) It can boot off CD, which might be useful to set up an OS3.2 HDF, which could then be used on a "normal" Amiga core.

I don't think this needs to be a separate core, does it? There are minimal differences in hardware.

[mahen]

Would love to play Alien Breed 3D with the CDDA audio tracks.
The soundtrack alone is worth listening to, it's pretty brilliant, it was composed by Bjorn Dr Awesome Lynne when he was at the peak of his creativity. (92 : Hobbits & Spaceships ; 94 : Montage ; 95 : Dreamstate, Alien Breed 3D ; 97 : The Void ; 98 : Wizard of the Winds).

[LamerDeluxe]

Genetic Species is another really fantastic game with CD audio. I've played that soundtrack so many times outside of playing the game.

The game has a fantastic atmosphere, looks great and has really good and varied game play, partly inspired by the mechanics of Paradroid.

Not sure how well the current Amiga core can handle it, hopefully the hybrid emulation project will succeed for demanding software like this.

[KremlingKuthroat19]

The thing that's appealing about the prospects of a CD32 is threefold:
1) It is the definitive version of the Amiga games (since it has CD audio support)
2) It's backwards compatible with the CDTV (Wikipedia states that it isn't compatible with earlier CDTV games, but I don't know the accuracy of that claim). If it is 100% backwards compatible, it would be great to have a 2 for 1 core like the 7800 core.
3) It's got a handful of exclusives (Defender of the Crown II, Amiga CD32 Football, etc.)

Plus, there are lots of people, myself included, who simply don't like playing with a keyboard and mouse. The Amiga CD32 is a consolized Amiga, and that in and of itself is very appealing tbh.

4) It can boot off CD, which might be useful to set up an OS3.2 HDF, which could then be used on a "normal" Amiga core.

I don't think this needs to be a separate core, does it? There are minimal differences in hardware.

I see what you're saying in that it doesn't need to be a seperate core bc of the minimal differences in hardware, but I think it does. The Amiga CD32 and CDTV are consoles, so they should have a core located in the console directory. It's similar to how the Atari 5200 is based on the Atari 800 line of computers, but it'd be ludicrous to include it as part of the Atari 800 core.

Also, I'm one of those people that have no interest in PC gaming. I'm a console/arcade gaming zealot and have no interest in messing around with a keyboard and mouse so, for console purists like myself, it'd be nice to have a CD32 core in the console directory. I understand if that's not a hangup for you, but for me it's a big hang up. I wouldn't even play the ColecoVision core if it was part of the MSX core for example.

Afaik, the Amiga core is essentially complete. Just adding the CD support and forking it would work out best imo, but then again I'm no developer.

[Caldor]

CDTV and CD32 include pretty much the exact same hardware as the Amiga 500 and Amiga 1200. Not sure if its the same for the Atari examples you gave, but when it comes to emulators it is very common to add it all in the same emulator. Not much reason not to when the overlap is enough to justify it.

The benefit is that whenever there is an update to one or the other core, both will probably benefit from it. The Minimig core should have full CD support anyway. Currently it lacks audio CD support like the AO486 core does.

I would be more likely to agree if the Amiga core had run out of FPGA logic space. That should not be the case though.

[FPGA64]

CDTV was just an Amiga 500 with a CD drive. Indeed you can make the CDTV a great looking Amiga 500. The CD32 did have one custom Chip Akiko which can do chuky to Planar graphic conversions in hardware.

The chip wasnt used a great deal as most of the CD32 titles were just shovelware. The CD32 never sold enough to make a dedicated game viable.

[FoxbatStargazer]

Isn't Genesis -> Mega CD a similar situation? It was probably split for a good practical reason (maybe can't fit turbo features + Virtua Racing and Mega CD at once?) but it seems like it is managed fine in terms of updates?

[Caldor]

Isn't Genesis -> Mega CD a similar situation? It was probably split for a good practical reason (maybe can't fit turbo features + Virtua Racing and Mega CD at once?) but it seems like it is managed fine in terms of updates?

Well, the Genesis / Mega Drive could just be expanded with the MegaCD / SegaCD addon and then play the MegaCD games. So it was exactly the same hardware. Not even sure any special chips were added. I do think its still two different cores though, but I also think the MegaCD core supports non-CD Mega Drive games.

[limi]

The MegaCD added both a higher clocked additional 68000 CPU as well as more RAM. It wasn’t simply a CD add-on like the CDTV/CD32.

(…and yes, the CD32 did add the Akiko chip that pretty much went unused outside of the CD capabilities — the chunky-to-planar part is already in the MiSTer Minimig core)

[killersquirel]

I am hoping that a core for the Amiga CD32 comes this year. I wouldn't care if it was a separate core or added to the existing Amiga core.

[KremlingKuthroat19]

On the topic of the Sega CD, yes it has a lot more hardware capabilities than the Sega Genesis, so that's why it's a seperate core. It's not a simple CD add-on like the TurboGrafx CD. For example, it has Mode 7 capabilities as shown in the bonus stages of Sonic CD.

Here's an interesting idea: if the Amiga core gets CD32 support, why can't it be included in both the Computer and Console folders? That way, console snobs like me who don't have any interest in PC cores can enjoy playing the CD32 in my console folder and computer snobs can do the same. It's a win-win!

The only caveat is allowing users to simply select a CD32 or CDTV game without messing around with command prompts. Also, CHD support is a must!

Btw, does the CD32 play every CDTV game? I've heard 2 different stories. 1 that the CD32 is 100% backwards compatible with the CDTV and another story that certain games are incompatible. Does anyone know for sure if the CD32 is 100% backwards compatible with the CDTV. If it is, then there's no need for a CDTV core like how the 7800 core made the 2600 core obsolete.

I'm also hoping for a CD32 core as well! MiSTer is starting to get a lot of 5th gen love (my favorite console gen), so a CD32 core on top of a Saturn and PS1 core in 2022 would be amazing!

[gibs]

Don't forget the controller that needs to be implemented as it is not managed the same way than a classic Amiga.

[kathleen]

@KremlingKuthroat19,

I'm maybe wrong, but to me the CDTV is an Amiga 500 ECS (Enhanced Chip Set) with 1Mb Chip and with a KS 1.3 (+ module CDTV). This permits a pretty good compatibility with the A500 games/software but the 1mb chip can cause some troubles, also the ECS for some games which were working only with 512kb Chip and nothing more and/or with OCS
The CD32 is an Amiga 1200 / 2mb chip ram + Akiko (CD-ROM controller and performs chunky to planar graphics conversion) + CD... with AGA (Advanced Graphics Architecture) with a KS 3.0 or 3.1, not sure
So unless the games are patched of exist in WHDLOAD format, there is much more chance to have the Amiga 500 games running on an Amiga CDTV than on the CD32.
The aim of the CDTV was to be firstly a multimedia console transformable to an Amiga 500 by adding it a keyboard. Same for the CD32 but then it will become an Amiga 1200
Talking about compatibility between the different models of Amiga is not easy as even between two Amiga 500 (from the 1st gen to the last gen) you'll faced to compatibility issues. (Some workarounds exist of course like relokik, etc but will not be as flawless as we should think).

For this, the Mister with the Minimig core is the paradise, with one device you can have every model revisions just by choosing the KS, the amount of ram etc etc.

I'd like also to have a CD32 port to the Mister and to be honest, I do not care if it will be a separate core or a all in one. Why ? Because it is still an Amiga Because we can have different configuration possible to be saved because the most important will be to have it

[KremlingKuthroat19]

Fair enough @kathleen. Getting every Amiga game regardless of model is the best way to go about it. It seems that adding to the existing Amiga core is the best way to get complete CDTV compatability.

Having an Amiga CD32 and its Akiko chip as well as a working CDTV is essential in order to make the Minimig core complete.

I'm just asking if either a symlink or a RBF can be placed in both folders for people like me who prefer to play the consolized versions

[Caldor]

I think I read something about the CD32 having an extra chip or something to make it CDTV compatible... but does that mean it actually has a full 68000 CPU? Because in my experiments with emulating the CDTV, it does not seem to happen at all without the CPU being 68000. So I have not been able to run CDTV games on my Amiga 1200, but I have managed to do so on the MiSTer core because it can be said to the 68000 CPU. But that uses some emulation and creative use of boot scripts and such, and its not fully compatible, not even close.

But I do have a CDTV and a CD32, so if anyone has an example of a CDTV game that does not work on both systems I could test that.

[DaveGeorge]

The cdtv version of Turrican 2 doesn’t work on the CD32 if I remember correctly.

[Caldor]

I have been experimenting some more with running CDTV and CD32 games on the MiSTer.

I already mentioned the Squirrel CD32 boot disk and it works pretty well. One problem though is it only seems to work with some kickroms, mainly a custom 3.2 kickrom I made that had gotten the workbench and icon library added to it, as otherwise it complains about not having those when trying to boot from it. I still find it pretty annoying how they designed a new rom that is not self contained and lacks backwards compatibility.

But it did not make much sense that it only works when combined with 3.2, as the boot disk is from 1996. I guessed it must have something to do with what makes the Minimig core on the MiSTer different from an original Amiga, and one difference is that it uses scsi.device for its CDs. Something I had to modify for the Squirrel boot disk to get it to work, making its CD drive point to scsi.device instead of cd.device.

And sure enough, I added the scsi.device from the 3.2 ROM to a 3.1 ROM and now that works. I am still trying to figure out how well it works, because I am trying to make a custom ROM for the MiSTer that can then boot CDs. So there would not be a need to use a floppy disk to boot CD32 and CDTV games, but just load a custom CD32 ROM that would then boot any mounted CD. I got it to work with Beneath a Steel Sky, but several other games had some errors, games that worked before.

I have some ideas of how to possibly fix that. I think it is mainly because it lacks the NVRAM the boot floppy had on the floppy itself, and I think I might get around that by mounting the MiSTer Share: folder and use that for storing the NVRAM data, which is used for savegames and such.

The way it works as a ROM is that I made the Squirrel Boot Disk part of the ROM, using the romdisk project:
https://github.com/cnvogelg/romdisk

Another thing to work out is how to share my work though, as I need to find a way to share this without sharing copyrighted ROM files and I am pretty sure the Squirrel CD32 floppy is also copyright protected. I can at least make a video on how I made it all work, but its pretty complicated. Romdisk I got working by using the Windows 10 Linux shell and setting that up you first need to install some Linux stuff in Windows 10 and then install some Amitools and the romdisk, then running several commands to create the ROM, and the floppy also needs to be customized a bit.

So first off I think the solution is a simpler method, of modifying a 3.1 ROM with a patch I can make for it, and then how to get the Squirrel floppy disk and maybe a patch would work for it as well, to make the modifications to it that I have made.

[akeley]

Does that mean that audio works with your method?

[Caldor]

Does that mean that audio works with your method?

Unfortunately not... at least it should not work. Pretty sure the core itself, while it does support mounting CHD and cue images that have audio tracks, I am pretty sure it does not support playing those audio tracks.

Pretty sure if support for the audio tracks is added, it will work. I did work a bit on the PSX core adding some extra support for audio tracks on it, but it was only after audio tracks had gotten supported. I think at first cue/bin did not support audio tracks you had to use CHD images, and I made it work with cue/bin images as well. I only did this in the MiSTer Main as the core itself already supported audio tracks, so even if I could figure out how to make it work in MiSTer Main, I would not know how to add it to the Minimig Core.

I know that in a real Amiga you should have to actually solder a cable to audio connections on the motherboard to get CD audio. So I am guessing something similar has to be done in the core.

But maybe if I get this to work and others find interesting in running CD32 and CDTV stuff on the core, maybe some of the more experienced FPGA and MiSTer developers might take a look at it. Pretty sure it should be possible and somewhat simple... for the ones who know how... to add CDDA to the AO486 and Minimig core. Well, at least simple in the way that they would not have to reinvent the wheel to make it work, but it might still take a while to implement.