S-Video and Composite Over Component Output! (Custom Cores)

[DevilHunterWolf]

I saw an interesting post being shared from a MikeSimone3 (or MikeS11). They've been working on S-Video and Composite support over the existing Component output of MiSTer. It's on a core by core basis but this is particularly exciting news to anyone with limited inputs on their CRT.

https://twitter.com/MikeSimone3/status/ ... 4508263426

Current cores this has been custom added to are Atari 5200, Atari 7800, Genesis, MegaCD, NES, Neo Geo, PS1, SMS, SNES, and TurboGrafx16. These are separate core files so you will have to grab them from their github. https://github.com/MikeS11/MiSTerFPGA_Y ... C%20Builds (Edit: Some arcade and computer cores added. Also updated the github URL to its new location.)

I also have to give a mention to qda on Twitter for showing off that Composite works with just a simple joining adapter on Component's red and green lines. This is how I've tested it and it really is that simple to get working; VGA to Component cable and an adapter.

https://twitter.com/qda/status/1509040851242029058

The quality is a bit hit and miss for me with just Composite but I'd say this is a better alternative to the various VGA to Composite converters. NES, SMS, and SNES are all really great looking. Genesis and MegaCD work pretty good too but they seem pickier about connections since they're the only ones that didn't like my input switcher. Had to plug directly into the TV for them to display color. Neo Geo and PS1 cores work but didn't look as nice as the other cores did over Composite. S-Video users might have a better experience with those. And to top it all off, light guns work! Having to use forced_scandoubler for my existing VGA to Composite converter meant that original light guns have not really worked. No problems whatsoever with my NES Zapper or the Master System Light Phaser using this new method. It even works on a TV I've previously had light gun issues on but I can't say for certain if it's the cleaner composite signal out of the MiSTer or the worn out CRT deciding to play nice this time.

Just wanted to spread the word to anyone that has been looking for alternative ways to connect S-Video or Composite, especially for us stuck with the lone yellow RCA cord. No jumper changes, just needed the SOG switch turned on per usual for Component output configuration. Direct Video is stated to work with this but looks like the same Component issues apply as they do normally. And a bit of a warning, Gamma Correction in the Video Processing menu does affect the analog output in case the picture looks a bit off. I thought all those options didn't do anything without vga_scaler on but I found out at least gamma did when I was changing settings for side by side comparisons.

EDIT: It suddenly dawned on me that this would work on my Commodore 1702 monitor. The rear connectors on it are separated chroma and luma RCA inputs. People have been converting S-Video to use with them but you can now just use the Component cable directly with MiSTer! Green into luma and Red into chroma: instant S-Video quality! Everything looks great! Just remember to flip the rear switch to have it use the rear connectors instead of the front.

[MikeS1]

S-Video is always the way to go on the cores but I'll continue to try to improve composite. Many of the issues you're seeing is probably related to the Luma not having a notch filter on the reference NTSC freq so the tv gets confused and thinks it's color. I'm working on a couple breakout boards to make life easier. Also, I'm also looking into some advise from Mike Chi which may help clean things up even more.

It's just the initial builds I'll do what I can to make things better.

I'm hoping that one day we can add this to the framework, the source is currently modular and can be activated by the developers https://github.com/MikeS11/Template_MiS ... 2f5bf06142 . I'm trying to keep the feature as lean as I can without adding too many unnecessary options.

[DevilHunterWolf]

I know there's only going to be so much that can be done with just Composite and the very simple method I'm using to connect it. I've used so many adapters and converter boxes over the years that such a straight forward solution feels like magic. Any improvements you can make I'll just call additional magic!

Thank you for the work you've done with this!

[barfood]

This is awesome news! I'd love to finally get rid of the dot crawl I get from Antonio's adapter Thanks for all that awesome work!

Edit: As MIke wrote later in this thread,
> You don't need any adapters if you have a 1702, I designed the cores to work perfectly with my 1702, it was probably the main reason I worked on the Y/C framework.
> You just need a VGA to component cable

Noob question: I understand the VGA -> Component -> S-video conversion, but what connectors are required to to VGA -> Component -> Composite?

[HappehLemons]

This is awesome news! I'd love to finally get rid of the dot crawl I get from Antonio's adapter Thanks for all that awesome work!

Noob question: I understand the VGA -> Component -> S-video conversion (with this adapter), but what connectors are required to to VGA -> Component -> Composite?

You just need

VGA To Component Cables -> Plug the Red & Green into a RCA Stero to Mono Cable -> Plug that into the Yellow Composite jack on your TV

I used this:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0002J1LE8/

Worked great for me in my Genesis tests.

His github page also says SOG should be activated on your analog board & YPbPr=1 in the Mister INI file must be on.

[MikeS1]

I need to update git, YPbPr is not required to be on anymore. Actually for Direct video it needs to be off.

• Sync on Green - ON (Analog IO Board)
  YPbPr (Mister ini) = 0
• Analog IO board / Direct Video HDMI to VGA adapter
• If using direct video you will need to create the hsync notch in the luma signal (https://github.com/MiSTer-devel/Main_Mi ... rect-Video for reference)
• If you are using direct video, it must be enabled in the mister ini file, YPbPr must be disabled and Composite sync must be enabled
• Enable S-Video in the menu screen

[dmckean]

This is awesome news! I'd love to finally get rid of the dot crawl I get from Antonio's adapter Thanks for all that awesome work!

Noob question: I understand the VGA -> Component -> S-video conversion (with this adapter), but what connectors are required to to VGA -> Component -> Composite?

You can use an adapter like this to go from S-video to composite.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0000BZ2WC/

[Dougdoesnt]

I am currently using Antonio's adapter for composite output because it's the best my Samsung GX TV supports until I RGB mod it. I really like Antonio's adapter, but the genesis core makes me nauseous which was a big disappointment.

I'd like to try this output method, but I am not sure which kind of adapter I need. Ive seen VGA>component adapters (Monoprice 102170) that say they only work on projectors because they don't actually transcode the signal it just sends ypbpr over a VGA connector...is that good or do I want one that is actually converting? Is that what I want for this? Or could someone drop an Amazon link for an appropriate VGA>component adapter that is known to work for this composite implementation? Cheers!

[DevilHunterWolf]

I am currently using Antonio's adapter for composite output because it's the best my Samsung GX TV supports until I RGB mod it. I really like Antonio's adapter, but the genesis core makes me nauseous which was a big disappointment.

I'd like to try this output method, but I am not sure which kind of adapter I need. Ive seen VGA>component adapters (Monoprice 102170) that say they only work on projectors because they don't actually transcode the signal it just sends ypbpr over a VGA connector...is that good or do I want one that is actually converting? Is that what I want for this? Or could someone drop an Amazon link for an appropriate VGA>component adapter that is known to work for this composite implementation? Cheers!

I'm using the VGA to Component cable I bought from MiSTerAddOns in the event I ever found a Component TV worth picking up. You just need a basic cable, not any kind of converter, so that Monoprice one should work. The MiSTer's output is what handles sending the correct signal down the correct wires. Then all you need is a stereo to mono RCA adapter that has two female RCAs going to one male RCA connector to connect red and green of Component to plug into yellow Composite.

[Hetzen]

Does anyone know if this cable will work to get s-video out?

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/234444940452

[fierman]

You need to add a 470 Ohm resistor too

This is awesome news! I'd love to finally get rid of the dot crawl I get from Antonio's adapter Thanks for all that awesome work!

Noob question: I understand the VGA -> Component -> S-video conversion (with this adapter), but what connectors are required to to VGA -> Component -> Composite?

You just need

VGA To Component Cables -> Plug the Red & Green into a RCA Stero to Mono Cable -> Plug that into the Yellow Composite jack on your TV

I used this:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0002J1LE8/

Worked great for me in my Genesis tests.

His github page also says SOG should be activated on your analog board & YPbPr=1 in the Mister INI file must be on.

[green_onion]

I know others have stated that this eliminates the need for Antonio's adapter, but will it nonetheless work *with* Antonio's adapter for stable composite output? Asking because I already have it here and now as opposed to VGA->Component->Composite cables

[HappehLemons]

You need to add a 470 Ohm resistor too

This is awesome news! I'd love to finally get rid of the dot crawl I get from Antonio's adapter Thanks for all that awesome work!

Noob question: I understand the VGA -> Component -> S-video conversion (with this adapter), but what connectors are required to to VGA -> Component -> Composite?

You just need

VGA To Component Cables -> Plug the Red & Green into a RCA Stero to Mono Cable -> Plug that into the Yellow Composite jack on your TV

I used this:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0002J1LE8/

Worked great for me in my Genesis tests.

His github page also says SOG should be activated on your analog board & YPbPr=1 in the Mister INI file must be on.

I didn’t add any type of resistor. Works fine for me.

[dmckean]

I know others have stated that this eliminates the need for Antonio's adapter, but will it nonetheless work *with* Antonio's adapter for stable composite output? Asking because I already have it here and now as opposed to VGA->Component->Composite cables

No, Antonio's adapter is a scan converter that actively runs the video signal through ICs that alter it.

With these new cores, the signal processing is done in the core itself so all that is needed is an adapter cable that matches the correct pins from the VGA cable (red, green and ground) to the proper pins on s-video/composite cable.

[lu_source]

This is great! I'm waiting for some adapters to arrive so I can try this out.

[beamrider]

This one worked for me for those just needing to drive a 1702.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/172762121688

[Hetzen]

This one worked for me for those just needing to drive a 1702.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/172762121688

Thanks for the reply. So is there a lead that connects two phono's into a male s-video din. My Google foo is returning blank so far.

[fierman]

I didn’t add any type of resistor. Works fine for me.

Please see the discussion here as well viewtopic.php?p=47060#p47060 - it may work fine without, but depending on the model of your monitor/tv you may damage it.

[DevilHunterWolf]

I didn’t add any type of resistor. Works fine for me.

Please see the discussion here as well viewtopic.php?p=47060#p47060 - it may work fine without, but depending on the model of your monitor/tv you may damage it.

I'll freely admit this is outside of my expertise, but isn't the resister discussion firmly around the Direct Video method of connection? That makes some sense to me because going through HDMI is requiring some clever reprogramming of the HDMI standard whereas the Analog IO board is just sending the appropriate signal. It seems to me that the potential of damaging your TV or monitor is not necessarily related to this new method of S-Video and Composite connection but just business as usual for Direct Video. I could be wrong and I'll welcome getting the information corrected if I am.

[akeley]

I didn’t add any type of resistor. Works fine for me.

Please see the discussion here as well viewtopic.php?p=47060#p47060 - it may work fine without, but depending on the model of your monitor/tv you may damage it.

Just for the record, that resistor is supposed to be needed only when connecting to SCART.

[beamrider]

This one worked for me for those just needing to drive a 1702.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/172762121688

Thanks for the reply. So is there a lead that connects two phono's into a male s-video din. My Google foo is returning blank so far.

Something like this?

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/124316853501

[Hetzen]

This one worked for me for those just needing to drive a 1702.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/172762121688

Thanks for the reply. So is there a lead that connects two phono's into a male s-video din. My Google foo is returning blank so far.

Something like this?

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/124316853501

Unfortunately not. My JVC PVM needs a 4 pin Y/C S-video input. Looks like I'm going to have to make one.

[beamrider]

@Hetzen

How about this?

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32801263347.html

[Hetzen]

Looking closer, but like the lead I posted in my first post in this thread, we've no idea how the pins are wired. That one looks like it's trying to combine audio with composite into an S-video connector.

This is what I understand I need.

svideoplugside.gif (5.01 KiB) Viewed 16535 times

[Dougdoesnt]

I am currently using Antonio's adapter for composite output because it's the best my Samsung GX TV supports until I RGB mod it. I really like Antonio's adapter, but the genesis core makes me nauseous which was a big disappointment.

I'd like to try this output method, but I am not sure which kind of adapter I need. Ive seen VGA>component adapters (Monoprice 102170) that say they only work on projectors because they don't actually transcode the signal it just sends ypbpr over a VGA connector...is that good or do I want one that is actually converting? Is that what I want for this? Or could someone drop an Amazon link for an appropriate VGA>component adapter that is known to work for this composite implementation? Cheers!

I'm using the VGA to Component cable I bought from MiSTerAddOns in the event I ever found a Component TV worth picking up. You just need a basic cable, not any kind of converter, so that Monoprice one should work. The MiSTer's output is what handles sending the correct signal down the correct wires. Then all you need is a stereo to mono RCA adapter that has two female RCAs going to one male RCA connector to connect red and green of Component to plug into yellow Composite.

I ordered this and this and will report back next weekend when I can try Mike's cores.

[HappehLemons]

I am currently using Antonio's adapter for composite output because it's the best my Samsung GX TV supports until I RGB mod it. I really like Antonio's adapter, but the genesis core makes me nauseous which was a big disappointment.

I'd like to try this output method, but I am not sure which kind of adapter I need. Ive seen VGA>component adapters (Monoprice 102170) that say they only work on projectors because they don't actually transcode the signal it just sends ypbpr over a VGA connector...is that good or do I want one that is actually converting? Is that what I want for this? Or could someone drop an Amazon link for an appropriate VGA>component adapter that is known to work for this composite implementation? Cheers!

I'm using the VGA to Component cable I bought from MiSTerAddOns in the event I ever found a Component TV worth picking up. You just need a basic cable, not any kind of converter, so that Monoprice one should work. The MiSTer's output is what handles sending the correct signal down the correct wires. Then all you need is a stereo to mono RCA adapter that has two female RCAs going to one male RCA connector to connect red and green of Component to plug into yellow Composite.

I ordered this and this and will report back next weekend when I can try Mike's cores.

Yup! This will work. Excited to hear your thoughts.

[beamrider]

@MikeS11

Can I ask what is the link to download the latest test cores for end users/testers. The link I have is now a 404.

https://github.com/MikeS11/Test_Pattern ... %20Release

Thanks!

[MikeS1]

@MikeS11

Can I ask what is the link to download the latest test cores for end users/testers. The link I have is now a 404.

https://github.com/MikeS11/Test_Pattern ... %20Release

Thanks!

Was an old repository and I didn't want to confuse people, you should be going here for the latest: https://github.com/MikeS11/Template_MiS ... C%20Builds

[Dougdoesnt]

@MikeS11

Can I ask what is the link to download the latest test cores for end users/testers. The link I have is now a 404.

https://github.com/MikeS11/Test_Pattern ... %20Release

Thanks!

Was an old repository and I didn't want to confuse people, you should be going here for the latest: https://github.com/MikeS11/Template_MiS ... C%20Builds

FYI the dead link is still listed in the documentation. It's in the section below "S-Video Reference Document".

[beamrider]

@MikeS11

Can I ask what is the link to download the latest test cores for end users/testers. The link I have is now a 404.

https://github.com/MikeS11/Test_Pattern ... %20Release

Thanks!

Was an old repository and I didn't want to confuse people, you should be going here for the latest: https://github.com/MikeS11/Template_MiS ... C%20Builds

Thanks for that.

I did notice that it doesn't seem to include the C64 core previously present in the old link?