S-Video and Composite Over Component Output! (Custom Cores)

[MikeS1]

@MikeS11

Can I ask what is the link to download the latest test cores for end users/testers. The link I have is now a 404.

https://github.com/MikeS11/Test_Pattern ... %20Release

Thanks!

Was an old repository and I didn't want to confuse people, you should be going here for the latest: https://github.com/MikeS11/Template_MiS ... C%20Builds

Thanks for that.

I did notice that it doesn't seem to include the C64 core previously present in the old link?

Added the new build of C64 and Apple II

[MikeS1]

@MikeS11

Can I ask what is the link to download the latest test cores for end users/testers. The link I have is now a 404.

https://github.com/MikeS11/Test_Pattern ... %20Release

Thanks!

Was an old repository and I didn't want to confuse people, you should be going here for the latest: https://github.com/MikeS11/Template_MiS ... C%20Builds

FYI the dead link is still listed in the documentation. It's in the section below "S-Video Reference Document".

Fixed the link, thanks!

[beamrider]

Thanks for the new cores!

This time, I was able to get colour from the Genesis and SNES in PAL, although I think the colours were off - Sonic had a pink background. I thought it might be my monitor, but switched to the C64 core and colours look good there. NeoGeo core still only monochrome, didn't have time to test the others.

Very much appreciate the work you are putting into this.

[MikeS1]

Thanks for the new cores!

This time, I was able to get colour from the Genesis and SNES in PAL, although I think the colours were off - Sonic had a pink background. I thought it might be my monitor, but switched to the C64 core and colours look good there. NeoGeo core still only monochrome, didn't have time to test the others.

Very much appreciate the work you are putting into this.

Try the new C64 one I just posted, it has the same logic as the newer SNES and Genesis cores, there is a small difference that might throw off the color but I cant test it without a PVM =/. I can rebuild them all pretty quickly if the new C64 has the same issue.

[beamrider]

@MikeS1

PAL Observations:-

I can confirm the C64 core seems to work okay, the colours look roughly correct.

I also managed to get colour on the SMS and NES cores, but as per the SNES and Genesis they didn't look to be correct from initial observations.

[MikeS1]

@MikeS1

PAL Observations:-

I can confirm the C64 core seems to work okay, the colours look roughly correct.

I also managed to get colour on the SMS and NES cores, but as per the SNES and Genesis they didn't look to be correct from initial observations.

Thanks ! Ill work with someone on the MiSTer discord channel to test the other cores and get pal working better if there are issues.

[Larry]

@MikeS1 Thank you for giving support to more CRTs! Would it by any chance be possible that you could include Jotego jtframe (https://github.com/jotego/jtframe/blob/ ... e_resync.v) into the cores for screen adjusting?

[AmintaMister]

Hi!

I've tried to make it work the cores (last version) on my Trinitron Tv CRT but it shows only some noise on black screen, why?

I'm using VGA -> Component -> Two Female RCA to one Male -> Component

IMG_4856.jpeg (2.09 MiB) Viewed 6571 times

IMG_4857.jpeg (3 MiB) Viewed 6571 times

[beamrider]

What kind of "noise", post a picture?

[AmintaMister]

What kind of "noise", post a picture?

A black screen with some very small horizontal irregular white liens...

[dmckean]

Hi!

I've tried to make it work the cores (last version) on my Trinitron Tv CRT but it shows only some noise on black screen, why?

I'm using VGA -> Component -> Two Female RCA to one Male -> Composite

Did you turn S-video on in the OSD in the core? Is this NTSC or PAL (PAL currently has some issues)

Also, this is not a desirable way to convert Y/C to composite. You need a capacitor going across the red and green leads like in this circuit linked below at the very least.

https://www.epanorama.net/circuits/svideo2cvideo.html

Ideally though you'll want a luma trap.

[AmintaMister]

Did you turn S-video on in the OSD in the core? Is this NTSC or PAL (PAL currently has some issues)

Also, this is not a desirable way to convert Y/C to composite. You need a capacitor going across the red and green leads like in this circuit linked below at the very least.

https://www.epanorama.net/circuits/svideo2cvideo.html

Ideally though you'll want a luma trap.

Hi! Yes, I've turned S-Video on in the OSD in the core and I've tried PAL, I will try NTSC also...

Thanks for the circuit, I thought that my two cable were enough reading this thread...

[DevilHunterWolf]

Did you turn S-video on in the OSD in the core? Is this NTSC or PAL (PAL currently has some issues)

Also, this is not a desirable way to convert Y/C to composite. You need a capacitor going across the red and green leads like in this circuit linked below at the very least.

https://www.epanorama.net/circuits/svideo2cvideo.html

Ideally though you'll want a luma trap.

Hi! Yes, I've turned S-Video on in the OSD in the core and I've tried PAL, I will try NTSC also...

Thanks for the circuit, I thought that my two cable were enough reading this thread...

It could be a "your mileage may vary" situation, but I've used these cores successfully on 3 different CRTs. 2 TVs and 1 Commodore monitor (on both composite and "Commodore Video" connections). I didn't need a capacitor. There's only been two issues I've run across and that's attempting to use an input switcher and old, dirty connectors. The input switcher makes some sense to me as it was artificially extending the wires. Perhaps the capacitor helps in those situations but just the standard 6 foot VGA to Component cable that the different MiSTer sellers offer wasn't an issue. Even then, the worst that happened was I was only getting a black and white picture because the luma wasn't coming in strong enough. It still showed the screen until I removed the switcher. And of course, aging connectors definitely don't help. Even on the Commodore monitor's separate luma and chrome inputs that I'm pretty sure have never been used, I still had to twist and jiggle the cables a bit to get from a jumbled unrecognizable mess to a viewable picture. Time just isn't a friend to old technology.

Make sure the input on the TV is clean. I used cotton swabs and cleaning alcohol to get some of the old dust and dirt out of there and it helped get the picture in easier. The other thing is to make sure you're just using a "dumb" cable and not something that's converting the VGA to Component. The MiSTer is what's taking care of that. And as a sanity check, also make sure in your ini that forced_scandoubler, ypbpr, composite_sync, and vga_scaler are all set to 0.

[beamrider]

Did you turn S-video on in the OSD in the core? Is this NTSC or PAL (PAL currently has some issues)

Also, this is not a desirable way to convert Y/C to composite. You need a capacitor going across the red and green leads like in this circuit linked below at the very least.

https://www.epanorama.net/circuits/svideo2cvideo.html

Ideally though you'll want a luma trap.

Hi! Yes, I've turned S-Video on in the OSD in the core and I've tried PAL, I will try NTSC also...

Thanks for the circuit, I thought that my two cable were enough reading this thread...

I read on here that the capacitor is only needed for SCART?

[akeley]

I read on here that the capacitor is only needed for SCART?

This one here seems to be a different use case. On SCART it is meant for protection, here that epanorama link talks about image quality ("softer" image ).

I have no clue myself, just follow what I read, but I've always thought electronics is an exact science. Seems perhaps not always (it also supports my increasing conviction that CRTs basically run on some sort of magic).

[dmckean]

Without the capacitor the signal is going to be out of spec. Even though most TVs will still display a picture, it's going to have more artifacting than it should. The capacitor isn't really that robust of a solution, an actual luma trap will work better, especially on some arcade cores and Genesis.

[akeley]

Ok, so I'd like to have a stab at this myself soon, and also put it in the Wiki. Could somebody break it down in a For Dummies manner, with all the needed connections and schematics/descriptions? We're talking how-tos for:
via I/O board:
-Composite & S-Video for NTSC area sets
-Composite & S-Video for PAL area sets (even if they need to be NTSC capable)

via Direct Video:
-Composite & S-Video for NTSC area sets - component, RCA & round S-Video
-Composite & S-Video for PAL area sets (even if they need to be NTSC capable)

If some of these methods are duplicated then that's great, but it'd still need to be clearly stated.

[MikeS1]

Ok, so I'd like to have a stab at this myself soon, and also put it in the Wiki. Could somebody break it down in a For Dummies manner, with all the needed connections and schematics/descriptions? We're talking how-tos for:
via I/O board:
-Composite & S-Video for NTSC area sets
-Composite & S-Video for PAL area sets (even if they need to be NTSC capable)

via Direct Video:
-Composite & S-Video for NTSC area sets - component, RCA & round S-Video
-Composite & S-Video for PAL area sets (even if they need to be NTSC capable)

If some of these methods are duplicated then that's great, but it'd still need to be clearly stated.

Ill update the wiki this weekend, I meant to do it last week but got tied up with work, then lost my draft changes =/

[Roelant]

I tried this with my rt5x, with recommended ini settings mentioned etc.
The first couple seconds it looks great, and I like the composite look, but the picture is continuously becoming brighter.
The same happens with s-video.
If I reselect the video input on my rt5x it resets to normal, but again the picture is continuously becoming brighter.

I don't have this issue when using an analogue console with the analogue dac with VGA->composite adapter or when using the VGA->Composite/S-Video adapter from antoniovillena with the mister (though they have other issues).

Any idea what the cause might be? or solution rather?

Thanks in advance.

[passballtotucker]

Thank for you this! I can finally use composite without that horrible dot crawl. I seem to be in the minority, but I think composite is the best way to play these old consoles. I just used VGA to component then to the One RCA Mono Male to Two RCA Stereo Female Y-Cable that was posted earlier. To anyone else trying to use this, make sure to turn SOG on.

[cbo2188]

That is great. Thanks MikeS1 for doing this.
For composite, I used the VGA to component cable and the stereo y cable.
I had to turn up the brightness more since the image was darker, but looked good after that.
Thanks again.

[Dougdoesnt]

I'm using the VGA to Component cable I bought from MiSTerAddOns in the event I ever found a Component TV worth picking up. You just need a basic cable, not any kind of converter, so that Monoprice one should work. The MiSTer's output is what handles sending the correct signal down the correct wires. Then all you need is a stereo to mono RCA adapter that has two female RCAs going to one male RCA connector to connect red and green of Component to plug into yellow Composite.

I ordered this and this and will report back next weekend when I can try Mike's cores.

Yup! This will work. Excited to hear your thoughts.

I received the cables and am copying over Mike's cores. My mister.ini is currently configured for Antonio's adapter. What changes will I have to make in order to use Mike's alternative cores? Currently, my relevant parameters are:

forced_scandoubler=0
ypbpr=0
composite_sync=1
vga_scaler=0
vscale_mode=0
direct_video=0
video_mode=8 (not really sure what this even does)

I have the VGA PWR jumper set to 5v, and the SOG switch in the OVR position. Do I need to also change these physical settings before using this new composite solution?

Thank for you this! I can finally use composite without that horrible dot crawl. I seem to be in the minority, but I think composite is the best way to play these old consoles. I just used VGA to component then to the One RCA Mono Male to Two RCA Stereo Female Y-Cable that was posted earlier. To anyone else trying to use this, make sure to turn SOG on.

Could you please share your mister.ini? Do you have a jumper on the VGA PWR pins?

[beamrider]

@MikeS1

I made a quick picture showing the wrong colours in PAL (the light diagonal parts are the colours I see). The C64 colors are also wrong I discovered as well on using more software.

MarioColors.png (605.82 KiB) Viewed 5790 times

Seems like Red & Green swapped over?

Edit: One thing I noticed, is that if I set SOG to off, the colours seem correct when they occasionally fade in from monochrome. Not sure if that helps.

[shertz]

Dont know if its related to what Mike is doing, but MiSTer Addons just posted a bunch of videos of composite VS S-video on his youtube channel on the MiSTer....

https://www.youtube.com/c/MiSTerAddons/videos

[MikeS1]

Dont know if its related to what Mike is doing, but MiSTer Addons just posted a bunch of videos of composite VS S-video on his youtube channel on the MiSTer....

https://www.youtube.com/c/MiSTerAddons/videos

The beauty of Porks new board is that is that is allows you to use dual ram and and uses direct video for any analog outputs through either RGB or S-Video/Composite through an external sony encoder.

[MikeS1]

@MikeS1

I made a quick picture showing the wrong colours in PAL (the light diagonal parts are the colours I see). The C64 colors are also wrong I discovered as well on using more software.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/J479DtFjCmKRukBk6

Seems like Red &Green swapped over?

Edit: One thing I noticed, is that if I set SOG to off, the colours seem correct when they occasionally fade in from monochrome. Not sure if that helps.

I updated the SNES core with a very small change, it should be working now, i tested it with flynn. Ill update the rest over the next couple of days.

[beamrider]

@MikeS1

I made a quick picture showing the wrong colours in PAL (the light diagonal parts are the colours I see). The C64 colors are also wrong I discovered as well on using more software.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/J479DtFjCmKRukBk6

Seems like Red &Green swapped over?

Edit: One thing I noticed, is that if I set SOG to off, the colours seem correct when they occasionally fade in from monochrome. Not sure if that helps.

I updated the SNES core with a very small change, it should be working now, i tested it with flynn. Ill update the rest over the next couple of days.

Thanks, I can see you have updated the cores.

Briefly tested SNES, C64 & Genesis and happy to report these now showing the correct colours - many thanks.

[passballtotucker]

I ordered this and this and will report back next weekend when I can try Mike's cores.

Yup! This will work. Excited to hear your thoughts.

I received the cables and am copying over Mike's cores. My mister.ini is currently configured for Antonio's adapter. What changes will I have to make in order to use Mike's alternative cores? Currently, my relevant parameters are:

forced_scandoubler=0
ypbpr=0
composite_sync=1
vga_scaler=0
vscale_mode=0
direct_video=0
video_mode=8 (not really sure what this even does)

I have the VGA PWR jumper set to 5v, and the SOG switch in the OVR position. Do I need to also change these physical settings before using this new composite solution?

Thank for you this! I can finally use composite without that horrible dot crawl. I seem to be in the minority, but I think composite is the best way to play these old consoles. I just used VGA to component then to the One RCA Mono Male to Two RCA Stereo Female Y-Cable that was posted earlier. To anyone else trying to use this, make sure to turn SOG on.

Could you please share your mister.ini? Do you have a jumper on the VGA PWR pins?

I tried it first with all the settings used for Antonio's adapter. Then I changed composite sync=0 and took the jumper out and I didn't notice any difference.

My mister.ini file looks like this now:

Code: Select all

[MiSTer]
key_menu_as_rgui=0     ; set to 1 to make the MENU key map to RGUI in Minimig (e.g. for Right Amiga)
forced_scandoubler=0   ; set to 1 to run scandoubler on VGA output always (depends on core).
ypbpr=0                ; set to 1 for YPbPr on VGA output.
composite_sync=0       ; set to 1 for composite sync on HSync signal of VGA output.
vga_scaler=0           ; set to 1 to connect VGA to scaler output.
hdmi_audio_96k=0       ; set to 1 for 96khz/16bit HDMI audio (48khz/16bit otherwise)
keyrah_mode=0x18d80002 ; VIDPID of keyrah for special code translation (0x23418037 for Arduino Micro)
vscale_mode=0          ; 0 - scale to fit the screen height.
                       ; 1 - use integer scale only.
                       ; 2 - use 0.5 steps of scale.
                       ; 3 - use 0.25 steps of scale.
vscale_border=0        ; set vertical border for TVs cutting the upper/bottom parts of screen (1-399)
;bootscreen=0          ; uncomment to disable boot screen of some cores like Minimig. 
;mouse_throttle=10     ; 1-100 mouse speed divider. Useful for very sensitive mice
rbf_hide_datecode=1    ; 1 - hides datecodes from rbf file names. Press F2 for quick temporary toggle
menu_pal=0             ; 1 - PAL mode for menu core
hdmi_limited=0         ; 1 - use limited (16..235) color range over HDMI
                       ; 2 - use limited (16..255) color range over HDMI, for VGA converters.
direct_video=0         ; 1 - enable core video timing over HDMI, use only with VGA converters.
fb_size=0              ; 0 - automatic, 1 - full size, 2 - 1/2 of resolution, 4 - 1/4 of resolution.
fb_terminal=0          ; 1 - enabled (default), 0 - disabled
osd_timeout=30         ; 5-3600 timeout (in seconds) for OSD to disappear in Menu core. 30 seconds if not set.
                       ; Background picture will get darker after double timeout
osd_rotate=0           ; Display OSD menu rotated,  0 - no rotation, 1 - rotate right (+90°), 2 - rotate left (-90°)                  

; 1 - enables the recent file loaded/mounted.
; WARNING: This option will enable write to SD card on every load/mount which may wear the SD card after many writes to the same place
;          There is also higher chance to corrupt the File System if MiSTer will be reset or powered off while writing.
recents=0

; lastcore - Autoboot the last loaded core (corename autosaved in CONFIG/lastcore.dat) first found on the SD/USB
; lastexactcore - Autoboot the last loaded exact core (corename_yyyymmdd.rbf autosaved in CONFIG/lastcore.dat) first found on the SD/USB
; corename - Autoboot first corename_*.rbf found on the SD/USB
; corename_yyyymmdd.rbf - Autoboot first corename_yyyymmdd.rbf found on the SD/USB
;bootcore=lastcore    ; uncomment to autoboot a core, as the last loaded core.
bootcore_timeout=10  ; 10-30 timeout before autoboot, comment for autoboot without timeout.

; Option to load the custom font. Format is plain bitmap 8x8.
; Supported sizes of font:
;   768 bytes - chars 32-127 (only alpha + numeric)
;  1024 bytes - chars 0-127
;  1136 bytes - chars 0-141
;  up to 2048 - only chars 0-141 will be used.
; if first 32 chars are empty (for sizes 1024 bytes and more) then they are skipped.
font=fonts/Misc_Dragon_Warrior.pf

; USER button emulation by keybaord. Usually it's reset button.
; 0 - lctrl+lalt+ralt (lctrl+lgui+rgui on keyrah)
; 1 - lctrl+lgui+rgui
; 2 - lctrl+lalt+del
; 3 - same as 0 (lctrl+lalt+ralt on keyrah)
reset_combo=0

dvi_mode=0             ; set to 1 for DVI mode. Audio won't be transmitted through HDMI in DVI mode.

; 0 - 1280x720@60
; 1 - 1024x768@60
; 2 - 720x480@60
; 3 - 720x576@50
; 4 - 1280x1024@60
; 5 - 800x600@60
; 6 - 640x480@60
; 7 - 1280x720@50
; 8 - 1920x1080@60
; 9 - 1920x1080@50
;10 - 1366x768@60
;11 - 1024x600@60
;12 - 1920x1440@60
;13 - 2048x1536@60
;
; custom mode: hact,hfp,hs,hbp,vact,vfp,vs,vbp,Fpix_in_KHz
;   video_mode=1280,110,40,220,720,5,5,20,74250
video_mode=0

; set to 1-10 (seconds) to display video info on startup/change
video_info=0

; Set to 1 for automatic HDMI VSync rate adjust to match original VSync.
; Set to 2 for low latency mode (single buffer).
; This option makes video butter smooth like on original emulated system.
; Adjusting is done by changing pixel clock. Not every display supports variable pixel clock.
; For proper adjusting and to reduce possible out of range pixel clock, use 60Hz HDMI video
; modes as a base even for 50Hz systems. 
vsync_adjust=0

; If you monitor doesn't support either very low (NTSC monitors may not support PAL) or 
; very high (PAL monitors may not support NTSC) then you can set refresh_min and/or refresh_max
; parameters, so vsync_adjust won't be applied for refreshes outside specified.
; These parameters are valid only when vsync_adjust is non-zero.
refresh_min=0
refresh_max=0

; These parameters have the same format as video_mode.
; You need to supply both PAL and NTSC modes if you want vsync_adjust to switch between
; predefined modes as a base. This will reduce the range of pixel clock.
;video_mode_ntsc=0
;video_mode_pal=7

; 1-10 (seconds) to display controller's button map upon first time key press
; 0 - disable
controller_info=6

; JammaSD/J-PAC/I-PAC keys to joysticks translation
; You have to provide correct VID and PID of your input device
; Examples: Legacy J-PAC with Mini-USB or USB capable I-PAC with PS/2 connectors VID=0xD209/PID=0x0301
; USB Capable J-PAC with only PS/2 connectors VID=0x04B4/PID=0x0101
; JammaSD: VID=0x04D8/PID=0xF3AD
jamma_vid=0x04D8
jamma_pid=0xF3AD

; Disable merging input devices. Use if only player 1 works.
; Leave no_merge_pid empty to apply this to all devices with the same VID.
;no_merge_vid=0x045E
;no_merge_pid=0x028E

; Speeds in sniper/non-sniper modes of mouse emulation by joystick 
; 0 - (default) - faster move in non-sniper mode, slower move in sniper mode.
; 1 - movement speeds are swapped.
sniper_mode=0

; Uncomment following option if you don't want to see a second line for long file names in listing.
;browse_expand=0

; 0 - disable MiSTer logo in Menu core
logo=0

; Custom shared folder for core supporting this feature (currently minimig and ao486 only)
; Can be relative to core's home dir or absolute path.
; Path must exist before core start to use it, or it will fail.
; Make sure USB device is mounted before use shared folder on USB!
shared_folder=

[menu]
vga_scaler=1
fb_terminal=1
video_mode=512,41,50,80,240,4,3,15,10740

[dmckean]

ypbpr=1 needs to be set and the SOG switch on the analog board needs to be set to on.

[beamrider]

ypbpr=1 needs to be set ....

I think that's out-of-date, it needs to be zero now.

I just used the standard ini file and it worked out-of-the box for me.