MiSTer, Original Hardware, Lag, Some Thoughts!

[peke]

Hi to all, I want to share some test I did....

recently I build a mister, bought a DE10 nano, have some stuff (usb hub, keyboard, HDD, controllers), and someone who I really appreciate in this Great forum send me the missing parts. I use wireless 8bitdo controllers (bluetooth, nes30, snes30).
Love the mister, so I was thinking to sell my original hardware (with everdrives), but yesterday I did a test.

My 5 year son want to play "the old 3" (He call super mario 3 that way)...so I turn on the mister and pair 2 wireless 8bitdo controllers. we use to play it on retroarch on an amazon fire stick (just for the convenience of using a modern tv) some laggy I think but...always manage to play for a while....

so back to mister:

1) pairing the second controller wasn't quick, but...I manage to.

2) he didn´t pass the first level...got bored and want to play some other game.

so I turn on my original NES with an everdrive, we play for a while...pass all the levels...he got the whistle on level 1-3 and warp to level 4 (playing with my son the things I play when I was young together make me so happy!!!! and when he do alone that tricks that I didn´t remind teaching to him...I cannot describe my joy to you at all =)

Don´t get me wrong, I love my mister, I´m happy I have it and later I play some games And didn´t have any issues I mind about lag...same using 8bitdo wireless....maybe it´s that? maybe I should try using usb cord controller???

So I decide not to sell my original hardware and keep it like I do with my turntable and Vinyl Records, is the real thing!!!!

just that!!!!

pek

[vanfanel]

Simply put: you are using bluetooth controllers, so massive lag is expected.

Use wired joysticks or 2.4G wireless instead.

[Lightwave]

Since you still have the original NES gamepads, you can buy a NES > USB adapter (e.g. Daemonbite, Raphnet, etc.) and set the USB polling on MiSTer to 1ms.

If you do this, the lag that you experienced with the wireless controllers will disappear.

[aberu]

Even a proper wired controller with the 1000hz polling turned on will be a lot better. Also make sure your modern TV is in game mode.

It seems like your experience has less to do with MiSTer vs Original Hardware than it does the fact that you were unaware of how lag works with wireless controller technology and modern televisions.

https://inputlag.science/

Also, the repetition and him getting better at the game probably made him enjoy it more the second go around, so the conclusion you are drawing could be due to confirmation bias.

[ToothbrushThreepwood]

I would guess, based on my own kids of similar ages, that the 8bitdo controller is less handy in small hands than the old NES controllers. Which controller are you using?
I doubt input lag is responsible - the original NES had a good deal of input lag, you can even find frame-by-frame comparisons of Mario Bros on CRT on youtube with MiSTer having less input lag than original NES (with wired controller, USB-fastpolling).

Edit: i remembered wrong: the video comparison I was thinking of was using a SNAC adapter:
https://youtu.be/9-s6rYNH4zE

[toastboy]

Use fast usb-polling (also known as 1000hz polling).
Without that, input lag will be horrible. Really it should be enabled as standard IMO.

Less important is a wired USB controller, it helps a bit, along with using "game mode" on your TV's input.

[MorkMikael]

you can also try update you 8bitdo controllers firmware.Do this on your on risk. https://support.8bitdo.com/firmware-updater.html

[FoxbatStargazer]

Is your NES hooked up to a CRT? Then get your Mister there ASAP.

[peke]

hi to all, thanks for the reply

yesterday when I did mister vs original nes we where playing on a crt.

the pads I use are nes30 and snes30, wirelessly

I will try hook it with an usb and see

maybe using lag was a confusion, what I want to take note is that with mister and my setup my son didn´t pass the first level and with the original nes went far beyond, just that!

love the mister!

=)

[DevilHunterWolf]

The thing about bluetooth is not only that it's typically a higher latency connection than 2.4GHz wireless and wired connections but it's also much more inconsistent with the connection. Latency is not just a single number but a range. There's always a minimum and maximum tested latency as well as the average. A bluetooth controller might have a tested average of say 6ms but that's only part of the pictures. Maybe at best it can respond at 4ms but at worst it responds at 12ms, double the average. Bluetooth is wonderfully convenient but it's a low power connection and can lead to wild changes in latency. It could be frequently enough that you definitely notice it but it could be infrequent enough that you might blame your own reaction time rather than the controller. That's why bluetooth doesn't get as much love in the retro circles and corded or at the very least 2.4GHz wireless controllers are preferred.

At the very minimum, I would recommend plugging in the controllers instead of relying on bluetooth. That will help quite a bit. And if you really want to complete the experience, then look into daemonbite adapters to plug in your original NES controllers.

[MorkMikael]

are your snes ntsc and is your mister on ntsc. i know there is a different the pal and ntsc.

[peke]

my crt displays both, ntsc and pal, I play on ntsc

I try to plug some usb controller and test it, pluging my 8bitdo´s with usb cable, I hope it works!!


if not....

there are some china made snes, genesis and nes replicas, usb, wired......would that work? ore maybe 8bitdo m30 2.4GHz wireless, ($15 vs 50)

[Chris23235]

my crt displays both, ntsc and pal, I play on ntsc

I try to plug some usb controller and test it, pluging my 8bitdo´s with usb cable, I hope it works!!


if not....

there are some china made snes, genesis and nes replicas, usb, wired......would that work? ore maybe 8bitdo m30 2.4GHz wireless, ($15 vs 50)

Porkshop did some extensive lag testing with a lot of gamepads a few years ago. You can see his findings here:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... edit#gid=0

[HerrBerzerk]

About fast USB-polling:

I guess I have to turn it on in the Scripts folder and it is on then forever, also after reboot, for all cores, right?

Does it have any disadvantage? I mean, why is it not ON per default, always?

Thank you.

[Chris23235]

About fast USB-polling:

I guess I have to turn it on in the Scripts folder and it is on then forever, also after reboot, for all cores, right?

Does it have any disadvantage? I mean, why is it not ON per default, always?

Thank you.

If you enable it, it stays enabled. It is not enabled by default, because it is not working with all devices without problems. So it is disabled by default.

[Xbytez]

I guess I have to turn it on in the Scripts folder and it is on then forever, also after reboot, for all cores, right?

Yes the faster polling rate is global, persistent and survives a reboot.

Does it have any disadvantage? I mean, why is it not ON per default, always?

A risk exists of causing compatibility issues / malfunctioning of some USB devices.


MiSTer’s default USB polling rate is 125 Hz (8 ms worst case). However MiSTer can poll at the faster rate of 1000 Hz (1 ms) to minimise input latency. If you have issues with attached USB devices when using the 'fast_usb_polling' script, you can just disable fast USB polling by running the 'fast_usb_polling_off' script.