MiSTer Multisystem - All-in-One System

[earthprime]

We will also have Cartridges and various other expansion add-on's this year.

This is the Pi cartridge about to go into production, with others in various prototype stages.

Is this a MT32-pi Cartridge?
If yes, is this the final position for the little MT32 display?

This image was just the prototype PCB, so not yet completed the final, style, shape and functions yet. I'll pop up more images when we have a completed design. - all feedback is highly appreciated, many thanks.

Do you get a 'low voltage' warning on the MT-32 with the native Multisystem PSU?

[crabfists]

I think the new case design looks more practical but doesn't look as aesthetically pleasing as the one before.

Is the 30mm fan audible ? That would be a deal-breaker for me. My current Mister stack is completely inaudible with the 40mm Noctua fan.

Have you tested how hot the DE10 gets with the smaller fan?

[multisystem]

I think the new case design looks more practical but doesn't look as aesthetically pleasing as the one before.

Is the 30mm fan audible ? That would be a deal-breaker for me. My current Mister stack is completely inaudible with the 40mm Noctua fan.

Have you tested how hot the DE10 gets with the smaller fan?

Yes.

It's a low speed 30mm fan that can still be used on either of the 5v or 3.3v connections, it's as quiet as the previous 40mm fan.

As before the unit only needs a movement of air to keep things cool inside, we include a heatsink for the FPGA and also cool the back of the DE10-nano board with the fan airflow - keeping everything cool. I run a number of these without any fan at all just for long-term stress testing.

You are also very welcome to make any changes to the 3D printed enclosure you like to enhance whatever you need to make it look more aesthetically pleasing for you - files are all available over on Printable.com - https://www.printables.com/model/159379 ... g-console-

[crabfists]

Thank you for your answers. Nice to hear the fan is just as quiet as the old one.

After reading my last message I realise I may have come across a little rude. I must have been in a bad mood. Sorry

[multisystem]

Is this a MT32-pi Cartridge?
If yes, is this the final position for the little MT32 display?

This image was just the prototype PCB, so not yet completed the final, style, shape and functions yet. I'll pop up more images when we have a completed design. - all feedback is highly appreciated, many thanks.

Do you get a 'low voltage' warning on the MT-32 with the native Multisystem PSU?

No we don't have low voltage warnings as the multisystem expansion connector can deliver much more current to the cartridge than the USER port. voltage is not pulled down due to low current etc. We have tested with Pi zero 2w and Pi 3 and Pi 4 - all operate with MT32pi functionality.

[Amarokada]

Hey all, first time post here.

My friend and I both got our multisystems this week, and we both have a Phillips CM8833-Mk2 to use with it via Scart (and a scart to 9 pin D adaptor). We are both finding that some cores the screen is jumping constantly (essentially like a 1 pixel bounce of the image vertically a couple of times a second). The main ones we've been trying are the Atari ST and Berserk Arcade game. We are new to the system as a whole and really all we've done so far is download the latest updates and change the setting of fb_terminal to be 0.

The boot menu is perfectly stable and so are some other systems we tested (C64, Spectrum), so it seems to be a per-core thing with the frequencies these systems like Atari ST and Berserk are using.

Is there something we can try to sort this out?

We thought maybe a different cable that outputs from the VGA output might be better, like this one: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/255117620498

[LamerDeluxe]

We thought maybe a different cable that outputs from the VGA output might be better, like this one: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/255117620498

Heads-up with that kind of VGA connector though, you can't connect it to the cheap HDMI to VGA adapter because of those plastic clips at the front. I have a similar cable that has the same problem. So if you'd ever want to try that option, keep this in mind.

[Cyber Akuma]

Just watched the video and one thing I am not too keen on is how the SCART placement was changed.

Now I admit, I am mostly going to be using HDMI, but I wanted the SCART available too and I was figuring to just use a cover over the top port when I was not using it, mainly because I didn't like the idea of having a thick SCART cable with it's large connector always dangling out the back. With this new design, that's now the only option.

Is there any way to have a short male to female SCART cable that will let us basically re-route the connector itself to the backplate instead of leaving the cable dangling out?

Fan only having a 30mm option now reduces my options too, wanted to put a Noctua fan in there.

Loving all the other improvements though, especially it being easier and less wasteful to print as well as the improvement to the MicroSD card when taking off the top cover.

[multisystem]

Just watched the video and one thing I am not too keen on is how the SCART placement was changed.

Now I admit, I am mostly going to be using HDMI, but I wanted the SCART available too and I was figuring to just use a cover over the top port when I was not using it, mainly because I didn't like the idea of having a thick SCART cable with it's large connector always dangling out the back. With this new design, that's now the only option.

Is there any way to have a short male to female SCART cable that will let us basically re-route the connector itself to the backplate instead of leaving the cable dangling out?

Fan only having a 30mm option now reduces my options too, wanted to put a Noctua fan in there.

Loving all the other improvements though, especially it being easier and less wasteful to print as well as the improvement to the MicroSD card when taking off the top cover.

Thank you for the feedback,

The original enclosure still allows full access to the SCART with standard cables. That is still a perfectly viable solution if you wish.

We made the changes to the enclosure based on customer feedback and all the other things covered in the video. I'm sure there are a few flat cable SCART solutions that may work better for you.

On the fan - I run all my systems here without a fan. It's something you can decide to fit or not, it was added originally because it's always good to have some airflow, but you may find that you can run without or at the very least run it on 3.3v and that's almost silent or as low as the Noctua fan options at a lower cost.

[Amarokada]

I would disagree that the 30mm fan is quiet, both of the systems we built yesterday with the new enclosure and parts have terrible noisy/whinny fans that change speed so the whine is even more noticeable, and that was on 3.3v. I put my Noctua 40mm in (with the back half of the lid off) and that one is so quiet even at 5v.

Maybe 2 types of 30mm fans are being sent out, because nobody would call these quiet. Label says MB Ambeyond, Model AV-F3010HB

*edit* yep we had the fan round the wrong way, it's whisper quiet then pushing air out of the case (sticker towards outside).

[thisjustin2001]

Late to the party, but oh my goodness, what a fantastic, sleek design for this thing. I feel like the MultiSystem looks like a real console from back in the day from an alternate reality. Double thumbs up from me! What would really sell me on this would be an injection molded version! That'd truly be incredible!

[Amarokada]

Can someone verify that the VGA output on the Multisystem is the same as the one on the Mister IO board? We will be getting that alternative VGA to scart cable today and will be trying it on a Mister stack with IO board for comparison, but would also like to test it in the Multisystem itself.

I've tried a few more arcade roms now and am seeing the same issue of jumping picture over scart on the Philips CM8833-II, so this isn't limited to the Atari ST core.

[multisystem]

Can someone verify that the VGA output on the Multisystem is the same as the one on the Mister IO board? We will be getting that alternative VGA to scart cable today and will be trying it on a Mister stack with IO board for comparison, but would also like to test it in the Multisystem itself.

I've tried a few more arcade roms now and am seeing the same issue of jumping picture over scart on the Philips CM8833-II, so this isn't limited to the Atari ST core.

Hello,

Yes, the VGA 15pin output is as per the MiSTer I/O board. Having separate H and V sync signals as you would expect.
On the Multisystem SCART output the H and V sync signals are actively combined and level matched to be used for composite sync that CRT Tv's and SCART equipment would expect.

If you are connecting up a 'monitor' or PVM/BVM screen via SCART or VGA, just check if you need a separate set of V and H sync signals or if a composite signal is more appropriate.

Neil has a Philips CM8833-II monitor available for testing, so we can try that out, but my instinct would be to use via the VGA output as the SCART in the Multisystem is designed to be mostly used by vintage CRT TV's and we have tried to make it as widely compatible as possible for these type of displays.

Some PVM/BVM and other computer monitors will just run better off the VGA port than they will with adaptors connected to the SCART output.

Do let me know how you get on.

Cheers,

Rich.

[Amarokada]

Thanks Rich

That was exactly what I was starting to think as I read more about the differences between the multisystem scart and the VGA output (hence the sync on composite .ini setting being ignored on the Scart).

My friend gets his ebay cable today but on the strength of what you've said I might just order mine now, it sounds like it would be good to have both types of Scart available. Since the Phillips will be my go-to monitor it would also allow me to remove the scart from inside the box which I'd prefer now.

[multisystem]

I would disagree that the 30mm fan is quiet, both of the systems we built yesterday with the new enclosure and parts have terrible noisy/whinny fans that change speed so the whine is even more noticeable, and that was on 3.3v. I put my Noctua 40mm in (with the back half of the lid off) and that one is so quiet even at 5v.

Maybe 2 types of 30mm fans are being sent out, because nobody would call these quiet. Label says MB Ambeyond, Model AV-F3010HB

Your comment on the fan is confusing as we spent a lot of time selecting a suitable 30mm fan with lower RPM than normal so the noise would be minimised. If you get a generic 30mm fan from Amazon it's going to run at ~9000RPM and that's not what we wanted at all.

We did experiment with many different fan types/configurations but none of these prototypes should be have been sent out as we have plenty of stock of the final type being used.

I would be interested to see how you have it mounted (check it's not fitted backwards) and/or if it's become distorted and rubbing? or some other mounting problem.

I have a bunch of them fitted into fully built system here and I can't really hear them at all unless I get my head down just over the fan vent.

I always run them at 3.3v and actually most of the systems here are running 24/7 with no fan fitted at all. - the fan is basically just something to get some airflow in high temperature ambient or if you have other hot devices fitted like SSD's etc. - I'm not saying don't fit the fan, just that we also have the heatsink on the DE10-nano and the fan just helps to keep things totally cool, but the FPGA is also fine running warm.

[Amarokada]

My friend has confirmed the Phillips CM8833-II is stable using the VGA output to scart (with composite_sync=1 in .ini)

[Amarokada]

The 30mm fan was fitted with the label facing inwards (ie, blowing air towards the DE10). I could make a video and post it somewhere if that helps, I'm on signal (don't use whatsapp).

I'm going to try it again now.

[multisystem]

The 30mm fan was fitted with the label facing inwards (ie, blowing air towards the DE10). I could make a video and post it somewhere if that helps, I'm on signal (don't use whatsapp).

I'm going to try it again now.

Yea, that explains the noise. It's the wrong way around - you need to have the fan fitted so it's drawing air across the DE10-nano and exit outside the case - blowing out, not drawing air in.

Multisystem_30mm_Fan_orientation_in_case.jpeg

Switch it around and it will be quiet and be working in the correct way.

You may also want to check the Multisystem manual.

https://www.rmcretro.com/assets/manuals ... 2_V__1.pdf

This manual has a lot of tips and advice for using the Multisystem SCART and also assembly of the unit etc.

[multisystem]

Late to the party, but oh my goodness, what a fantastic, sleek design for this thing. I feel like the MultiSystem looks like a real console from back in the day from an alternate reality. Double thumbs up from me! What would really sell me on this would be an injection molded version! That'd truly be incredible!

Thanks for the positive vibes and I'm glad you like the Multisystem.

If we decided to injection mould the first version last year, we would not have made a revised and improved V2 for 2022. So for now 3D printing gives us lots of flexibility in manufacturing and also colour choice of small batch runs with almost any option people want. If it was injection moulded it would probably just be a plain black case - that's fine but we would have to sell many thousands just to break even on the tooling cost.

The 3D printed finish on the new 2022 V5 case seems to be acceptable to most people. the material we use is not unlike the feel of an ABS moulded enclosure, it feels really strong and solid. It's around 380g of material on every case, so that's actually heavier and more solid than a moulded case would be.

And we are designing both cartridge cases and various other add-on devices all being 3D printed, so again it allows really quick development and production of even small batches of interesting devices for MiSTer and the Multisystem.

[Amarokada]

Heh, I just came to the same conclusion. Looking at the manual pdf it doesn't really give enough info about this, it just says look at the picture and that fan is completely different colour and the cables come out differently. I went with my instinct to have air blowing in, since that's what you'd do on a PC case (positive pressure into the case so you have 1 place for dust filtering, rather than air being sucking in from any gap in the case).

Glad that's sorted out before I started cutting my case to fit the Noctua.

[Amarokada]

While we're on the subject of feedback, and looking at your nice silver case above, my friend and I both found that the red reset button was permanently pushed down once we put the front/top part of the case on. We had to file the case it a little bit to make the hole a bit bigger before the feel of the switch under the button could be felt. In your photo the red button looks to be a good 1-2mm proud of the case, but in ours it's flush with the case, even a little indented in, but works ok now.

[multisystem]

Heh, I just came to the same conclusion. Looking at the manual pdf it doesn't really give enough info about this, it just says look at the picture and that fan is completely different colour and the cables come out differently. I went with my instinct to have air blowing in, since that's what you'd do on a PC case (positive pressure into the case so you have 1 place for dust filtering, rather than air being sucking in from any gap in the case).

Glad that's sorted out before I started cutting my case to fit the Noctua.

Ok, but the manual does also show the black fan fitted in the correct orientation on page 29.

We mention that the fixings may be different, but fan orientation hopefully is clear enough to see in the attached images?

If not I'll make a note to add mode details to the next revision.

Glad you didn't start hacking up the case for the Noctua. Hope you have fun with the Multisystem and MiSTer project.

[Amarokada]

Yeah I do see what you're saying, but by the time we reached that page the fan is already fitted following the instructions on page 24, so I guess we weren't really looking at the fan picture by then.

I think adding some text on page 24 saying the sticker should be facing out (air blowing out of the case) would be enough for tits like me that built PCs all day long and don't stop to think a fan can only work one way around in a case like this

Not complaining though, so far this system is an amazing beast and you guys really have done an amazing job. Looking forward to playing around with it more once my VGA cable arrives.

[FoxbatStargazer]

Don't mind the thumbnail, most of this video goes into depth on the console multisystem, both on how they got to where they are (including a peek at their 3d printing farm), and shows off some add-ons being produced in the short term (MT-32 pi, S-Video and Composite out simultaneous w/RGB and HDMI) and some medium-term JAMMA stuff. The Handy portable stuff near the end probably better off in the other thread.

[seastalker]

Saw the latest video(s) and interviews and love the prototype news. I REALLY like the idea of the Mister being a console that can easily swap in and out of an arcade cabinet mount to some jamma extension unit.

Would love to see the Multisystem get detachable front squares with various OG controller ports.

[akeley]

I've heard about your addon for composite & S-Video (the one from~19:02 in this video).

Are you using the new designs from MikeS1, or is it the old flawed composite with artifacting?

[BraveToaster]

I have a bunch of them fitted into fully built system here and I can't really hear them at all unless I get my head down just over the fan vent.
I always run them at 3.3v and actually most of the systems here are running 24/7 with no fan fitted at all. - the fan is basically just something to get some airflow in high temperature ambient or if you have other hot devices fitted like SSD's etc. - I'm not saying don't fit the fan, just that we also have the heatsink on the DE10-nano and the fan just helps to keep things totally cool, but the FPGA is also fine running warm.

Hi,
I got my Multisystem as well, and fan noise is actually the only real complaint I have. When I found this, I first thought I had it mounted the wrong way as well, but when I checked, it's actually correct (label facing outward, air blowing out, connected to 3.3V). But I still get a very noticeable noise that's pretty annoying. I can easily hear it from a few meters away, like a fairly noisy laptop.
When I take out the fan and let it spin in free air, I already hear a quiet whiny noise, but when I hold it up to the case or mount it properly, then it gets really whiny.

Does that simply mean my fan is defective? The label says "MB Ambeyond DC Brushless Fan, Model: AB-F3010HB, DC 5V, 0.10A"

Thanks!

[grackle]

I just got my batch 2 Multisystem. I really quite like it. I'm "upgrading" from a misteraddons kit (which I'm giving to a friend).

I'm having trouble getting the SCART connector to work for my setup, does anyone have any tips?

My setup is Multisystem -> onboard scart connector -> their optional scart cable -> Sony RGB PVM (through a Lotharek switch)
I've also got Multisystem -> HDMI -> Laserbear iPad display on as well.

The HDMI works great. The PVM always shows a rolling display, I can see that there's content but it's constantly rolling up.

I have a VGA->SCART cable from my old Lotharek MIST that worked on the older MiSTer as well, and strangely, that works perfectly connected to the Multisystem VGA with the same settings that roll the display on SCART. But I'd rather use the builtin SCART.

I've read the manual quite a few times and tried lots of combinations of composite_sync, fb_terminal, direct_video, etc. And I've toggled the back sync of green switch a few times for good measure too. Anyone have a working combination of settings for this setup? I'd love both displays active (and HDMI only for greater than 240p content)

[Cyber Akuma]

I have been thinking about the Mt-32 addon, as it's one of the addons I am most interested in.

It uses a PiZero 2 right? Not a standard Pi4 as it would be too big? Is there any room/cooling for possibility of an overclock? I was reading another thread about using a Zero2 in place of a Pi4 to do Mt-32 emulation, and apparently the Zero 2 is not powerful enough for some games in terms to emulate the Mt-32, mentioned by one of the people working on using a Zero2 as a MT-32, and they mentioned that an overclock to 1.2GHz could help:

https://twitter.com/_d0pefish_/status/1 ... 4793551880

And in said thread I asked about if that Tweet was still relevant today since it was from last October, and Anim8 mentioned to me that with the overclock it works fine for most games but some still had issues, or that one might need to lower how much polyphony it does at once based on clock speed:

viewtopic.php?p=54130#p54130

[sweezely]

Anyone have a working combination of settings for this setup? I'd love both displays active (and HDMI only for greater than 240p content)

Is it just the menu that gives the rolling picture, or have you tried any cores? If the cores themselves work then you could use the vga scaler to add a specific modeline for the menu.