S-Video and Composite Over Component Output! (Custom Cores)

[riblad_om]

Has anyone come up with an elegant solution to the Arcade cores? Right now it seems like you have to put them in the arcade folder, eyeball version numbers to make sure you delete the right thing, then make sure you don't update your arcade cores so they don't get replaced, but I don't really know how the mister file structure works.

Maybe put it into an _ArcadeYC folder? See https://www.atari-forum.com/viewtopic.php?t=34832

... is that going to help the cores see the rom files so games load?

[MikeS1]

Just released an update to all the cores that fixed a faint colorbleeding issue thats really only noticeable on the PSX colorbleed 240p test and slightly in text. I really only caught the issue last week but the improvements I think are pretty big.

https://twitter.com/MikeSimone3/status/ ... 8227520512

I've also added VIC-20, Odyssey2 By request , Astrocade, Arkanoid cores.

If there are any cores people want to see let me know, I think most are now into the arcade cores, and Ill have to start by updating many of the jotego ones that I have already tuned.

I have a bunch of the breakout boards built and waiting on a few people to test them, in the meantime, I'm looking at a more complex breakout board that will allow be to better attenuate the ref frequencies. I'd honestly love any advice going down this path, there is really only so much you can do passively without really losing sharpness.

[shertz]

Thank you for the updates!! Since you asked for requests, I would like to see Pac-Man, Ms Pac , Dig Dug and Donkey Kong. The 1702 is perfect for standing the monitor vertically

[akeley]

If there are any cores people want to see let me know, I think most are now into the arcade cores, and Ill have to start by updating many of the jotego ones that I have already tuned.

I think Apple II and Atari 8 bit could benefit greatly, since a lot of their software has used composite artifacting - in fact Apple's colourcomes entirely from that. So it'd be interesting to see how they look on MiSTer's composite, even if you can't reproduce the artifacts 1:1.

Other candidate would be ZX Spectrum: even if it didn't have composite natively, the first model had only RF, which is not far off.

These cores would also cover a much more ground than single arcade ones, so here's my vote.

[MikeS1]

Apple II and the Atari 800 / 5200 are already completed

But Ill look more into the arcades for this weekend. The ZX Spectrum I believe is PAL only so I wont have a good way to test that until I can get a PVM.

[shertz]

The O2 has some 'pulsing' on the video. I'm using s-video on the 1702.

[MikeS1]

The O2 has some 'pulsing' on the video. I'm using s-video on the 1702.

Ah, not sure why the tuned value wasnt in there, ill fix that. Too many updates over the last couple days . Sorry I thought I had checked all of them before I posted it.

EDIT: Fixed and tested on my 1702, I've updated the Y/C Build with the new version.

[shertz]

The O2 has some 'pulsing' on the video. I'm using s-video on the 1702.

Ah, not sure why the tuned value wasnt in there, ill fix that. Too many updates over the last couple days . Sorry I thought I had checked all of them before I posted it.

EDIT: Fixed and tested on my 1702, I've updated the Y/C Build with the new version.

Niiiiiiiice....

[Hetzen]

This is great stuff.

I'd like to see this on some more PAL cores like the BBC micro and echo the Spectrum. Is there anything we can do to help tune PAL systems?

[KennyL]

Thank you @Mikes1 for all these work. Svideo looks great using VGA>component cable and RCA Y>svideo dongle.

Composite however has a lot of shimmer as previously described by Papadon. I'm testing on very similar 13" bowl Sony Trinitron that has composite and 19" flat tube Aiwa with svideo and composite. Also tested on Panasonic plasma TV with crap scaler for the heck of it. They all show similar shimmering. I tried 33uH/60pF and 10uH/200pF inductor/capacitor combo on luma that you've highlighted in your video.

This is from Genesis 240p Test Suite.

mister-mikes-gen204p.mp4

(6.45 MiB) Downloaded 209 times

Actual Sonic the Hedgehog game on the core looks pretty much the same. Vertical scrolling doesn't shimmer on Genesis core. NES and SNES cores have shimmering when scrolling horizontally and vertically. I tested real Genesis model 1 running Sonic and there is no shimmer (maybe tiny bit if you look close). Turning on composite blend option on Genesis core helps some. Perhaps some kind of interpolation option could also help out other cores.

Thanks again for providing such great options for consumer CRT TVs. I understand it's pretty much impossible to get real console level composite. I'm really looking forward to how close you can get with your board.

[MikeS1]

Thank you for the updates!! Since you asked for requests, I would like to see Pac-Man, Ms Pac , Dig Dug and Donkey Kong. The 1702 is perfect for standing the monitor vertically

Added just a couple new arcade cores: https://github.com/MikeS11/MiSTerFPGA_Y ... ds/Arcades

[MikeS1]

Thank you @Mikes1 for all these work. Svideo looks great using VGA>component cable and RCA Y>svideo dongle.

Composite however has a lot of shimmer as previously described by Papadon. I'm testing on very similar 13" bowl Sony Trinitron that has composite and 19" flat tube Aiwa with svideo and composite. Also tested on Panasonic plasma TV with crap scaler for the heck of it. They all show similar shimmering. I tried 33uH/60pF and 10uH/200pF inductor/capacitor combo on luma that you've highlighted in your video....

I've not found a good enough combo that an attenuate the filter enough just using passive components, its just going to take a bit of work to narrow it down. I'm split between work, core updates / tuning and working on a new prototype for a filter but am happy to see someone help.

[shertz]

Thank you for the updates!! Since you asked for requests, I would like to see Pac-Man, Ms Pac , Dig Dug and Donkey Kong. The 1702 is perfect for standing the monitor vertically

Added just a couple new arcade cores: https://github.com/MikeS11/MiSTerFPGA_Y ... ds/Arcades

WOW!! Nice update!! Thanks!!

[MikeS1]

Finally got the Cave Arcade tuned yesterday as well as Saturn. Since Saturn isnt near ready for primetime, just message me on discord if you want the latest build.

Null's amazing Cave core though is Added

[fierman]

Nice work. The signal is way too saturated though. Is there any way to fix this, apart from adding more resistors?

[fierman]

Nice work. The signal is way too saturated though. Is there any way to fix this, apart from adding more resistors?

Really depends on the monitor it seems. On a Sony PVM14 the signal seems to be too strong, on Barco it works perfectly. I am impressed, everything looks great. Thanks!

[triangle]

Great work so far! Got the latest Genesis YC core working over here, going from analog IO -> vga to component cable -> YC to commodore 1902a monitor.

The monitor’s primary input is C64 style luma and chroma in a din connector, but I’m seeing a ton a shimmer/rainbows in Genesis games. The other cores I tried seemed a lot more reasonable. Is this still expected even when outputting via YC/svideo? I had been under the impression composite would be the only one with the intense rainbow effects.

[MikeS1]

If you're using YC or Svideo there will be no rainbowing or shimmering at all, on any cores.

If you're using direct video and don't have the right adapter or have your settings set to YPbPr, the signal can get screwed up through the hdmi to vga converter but that's been the only time I've seen that problem.

Unless you are mixing the signals first then going to Svideo? If it's anything like the 1702, you just go straight through to the monitor with the vga to component cable.

[triangle]

If you're using YC or Svideo there will be no rainbowing or shimmering at all, on any cores.

If you're using direct video and don't have the right adapter or have your settings set to YPbPr, the signal can get screwed up through the hdmi to vga converter but that's been the only time I've seen that problem.

Unless you are mixing the signals first then going to Svideo? If it's anything like the 1702, you just go straight through to the monitor with the vga to component cable.

Did a little more sanity checking over here. The adapter's I am using are going from split luma + chroma to 6-pin din on the 1902a side. I pulled out a continuity tester to confirm that the signals aren't being mixed ahead of time. So I am confident it's not being pre-mixed, the monitor is not using composite.

The rainbow shimmering I was seeing is mostly in the 32X core. The genesis core seems better behaved, though I am still seeing some color changes while scrolling. Here's an example from Contra Hard Corps https://www.youtube.com/shorts/ZYjIIDETZDU (colors of the windows/side wall of green building.)

It's also entirely possible that this monitor just needs some work (it's from childhood), but the genesis core feels like the only one where it's still a little weird.

[MikeS1]

I definitely don't have that on the Genesis or S32X cores here on my Commodore 1702 monitor, nor my other monitors when using Y/C.

If the text in the OSD Menu has any rainbowing effects there is something up, I'm not 100% sure, its really hard to tell on your video.

But the first thing I would do is make sure you have the latest files as well. I had made an improvement on the May 16th version that did clear up some colorbleeding caused by the timing of the yc module being slightly off.

[triangle]

I definitely don't have that on the Genesis or S32X cores here on my Commodore 1702 monitor, nor my other monitors when using Y/C.

If the text in the OSD Menu has any rainbowing effects there is something up, I'm not 100% sure, its really hard to tell on your video.

But the first thing I would do is make sure you have the latest files as well. I had made an improvement on the May 16th version that did clear up some colorbleeding caused by the timing of the yc module being slightly off.

I got ahold of another svideo input television and confirmed your cores (including Genesis) are well behaved. Not sure what's going on with my 1902a, but thanks for the responses and suggestions of things to test.

[MikeS1]

I definitely don't have that on the Genesis or S32X cores here on my Commodore 1702 monitor, nor my other monitors when using Y/C.

If the text in the OSD Menu has any rainbowing effects there is something up, I'm not 100% sure, its really hard to tell on your video.

But the first thing I would do is make sure you have the latest files as well. I had made an improvement on the May 16th version that did clear up some colorbleeding caused by the timing of the yc module being slightly off.

I got ahold of another svideo input television and confirmed your cores (including Genesis) are well behaved. Not sure what's going on with my 1902a, but thanks for the responses and suggestions of things to test.

Could just be an issue with the 1902's in general https://www.lemon64.com/forum/viewtopic ... 41539c7229

[shertz]

So I did an update_all and all the JT arcade cores deleted the JT YC files lol. MikeS1, can you put all the YC files in one zip file so I don't have to go back to the Github page and download them individually? I'm lazy like that lol

[matijaerceg]

So I did an update_all and all the JT arcade cores deleted the JT YC files lol. MikeS1, can you put all the YC files in one zip file so I don't have to go back to the Github page and download them individually? I'm lazy like that lol

You can just grab the files in bulk:

UNyXrIg.png (56.54 KiB) Viewed 6328 times

[shertz]

So I did an update_all and all the JT arcade cores deleted the JT YC files lol. MikeS1, can you put all the YC files in one zip file so I don't have to go back to the Github page and download them individually? I'm lazy like that lol

You can just grab the files in bulk:

Got it. Thanks!!!

[MikeS1]

So I did an update_all and all the JT arcade cores deleted the JT YC files lol. MikeS1, can you put all the YC files in one zip file so I don't have to go back to the Github page and download them individually? I'm lazy like that lol

You can just grab the files in bulk:

Got it. Thanks!!!

A good tip for the arcade cores, create a folder called _YCArcade and _YCArcade/cores, please the MRA files in the main folder and the yc arcade cores into the cores folder. Thats currently what I do and it works great, no more worrying about arcade cores getting wiped out.

[LamerDeluxe]

Are you able to test Genesis core via composite (since it has a lot of rainbow artifacts via composite usually) and maybe post results?

Ok. I will try during this weekend. I consider discard this version of the cheapo board and when the new version it's available I'll replace (send new boards) to buyers of current one.

Hi Antonio, any news on the replacement boards yet?

I checked the signal with my oscilloscope and it looks like the chroma signal is being filtered with the current version, instead of the luma signal, the amplitude of the colorburst signal is really low.

[antoniovillena]

Are you able to test Genesis core via composite (since it has a lot of rainbow artifacts via composite usually) and maybe post results?

Ok. I will try during this weekend. I consider discard this version of the cheapo board and when the new version it's available I'll replace (send new boards) to buyers of current one.

Hi Antonio, any news on the replacement boards yet?

I checked the signal with my oscilloscope and it looks like the chroma signal is being filtered with the current version, instead of the luma signal, the amplitude of the colorburst signal is really low.

No news. I just do full refund to all buyers. When available you can make order again

[LamerDeluxe]

Ok. I will try during this weekend. I consider discard this version of the cheapo board and when the new version it's available I'll replace (send new boards) to buyers of current one.

Hi Antonio, any news on the replacement boards yet?

I checked the signal with my oscilloscope and it looks like the chroma signal is being filtered with the current version, instead of the luma signal, the amplitude of the colorburst signal is really low.

No news. I just do full refund to all buyers. When available you can make order again

Okay, thank you for the refund.

[riblad_om]

So from my limited understanding of NES palettes they seem to mostly reproduce various crts, but I'm not sure what palette I should use when I'm already using a ctr?

Is the default (kitrinx) ok for simulating what a nes would look like with the crt I happen to be running on?