NTSC 1084 Monitor

[Lamaman1971]

Hi Folks,

I just came into possession of an NTSC Commodore 1084. I am wondering how to connect it to my MiSTer as it has a 6 pin DIN for analog RGB and an 8 Pin DIN for Digital RGB?. No SCART unfortunately. I appreciate there is a mod for the monitor to add a SCART but I wondered, for the short term, how these monitors are typically connected up using the DIN connectors?

Any advice appreciated,

Mark

[limi]

I assume there are DB15-to-DIN cables out there, I have the SCART modified version, but I assume someone made one. If not, the schematics for the plug are probably pretty simple, here’s the pin-out:

http://www.hardwarebook.info/Commodore_ ... 8Analog%29

Oh, and the Analog RGB DIN is what you want.

As a bonus, your 1084 will also handle PAL just fine, even if you got the US version — they all handle both 60hz and 50hz.

[Lamaman1971]

Thanks! What does my mister reconfiguration need to look like for 15khz?

[akeley]

"Composite_sync=1" in mister.ini should be enough, if you're using Direct Video make sure "Direct_video=1". That's assuming you haven't made any video-related changes before.

[C-R-T]

I assume there are DB15-to-DIN cables out there, I have the SCART modified version, but I assume someone made one. If not, the schematics for the plug are probably pretty simple, here’s the pin-out:

http://www.hardwarebook.info/Commodore_ ... 8Analog%29

Oh, and the Analog RGB DIN is what you want.

As a bonus, your 1084 will also handle PAL just fine, even if you got the US version — they all handle both 60hz and 50hz.

No, an NTSC 1084 will not handle PAL and vice versa. This is their only weakness. Both will be able to use RGB 50 and RGB 60, though, so the Mister will work for both.

SCART is just a bunch of useless pins, the DIN6 has everything you need, so make a cable for that instead. Cut off a VGA cable and connect the hsync, vsync (typically yellow and clear color wires) r, g, b (typically their respective color wires) and gnd pins to the DIN6, and you’re done!

[limi]

No, an NTSC 1084 will not handle PAL and vice versa. This is their only weakness. Both will be able to use RGB 50 and RGB 60, though, so the Mister will work for both.

That’s interesting, I have a US version of the 1084 here, and it definitely works fine with my PAL Amigas from Europe. Maybe it’s a vocabulary/language confusion, since you say “RGB 50” — in any case, it will work great with both those ranges of refresh frequencies coming from the MiSTer. Unlike my US consumer CRTs, which are very unhappy if I feed them 50hz/PAL signals. :)

[virtuali]

That’s interesting, I have a US version of the 1084 here, and it definitely works fine with my PAL Amigas from Europe.

How the PAL Amiga is connected ? If it's in RGB, which is how must Amiga users connects to 1084s to, PAL/NTSC encoding doesn't matter anymore, as long it can sync both 50 and 60 hz. If it's connected with composite, it must recognize PAL encoding to display a PAL signal coming from composite.

[limi]

Yeah, I don’t think anyone used composite to connect their devices to the 1084, especially since the Amiga 500 composite output was black and white. The included monitor cable went from DB23(!) to SCART or DIN connectors, depending on which model of the 1084 you had.

[LamerDeluxe]

That is correct, in my experience. My CRT TV's and 15Khz monitors (1084 and similar) happily show 60Hz when used with RGB input, but don't show color with NTSC composite input.

[Chilli_Vibes]

This link might also help.

https://dfarq.homeip.net/commodore-1084-monitor/

Philips released their own variation of this monitor, the CM8833 Mark 1 and Mark II - which is a similar version to the 1084-P1, minus s-video.
I know both the Philips PAL models can do NTSC, as long as you use RGB. Not sure about the other way around, but wouldn't surprise me if they did.

[limi]

This link might also help.

https://dfarq.homeip.net/commodore-1084-monitor/

Yes, definitely pay attention to the differences between the Daewoo and Philips variants when making (or purchasing) the cable. You obviously have the Philips one since it uses DIN, just stating it here for anyone else looking for info on this monitor later. :)

[virtuali]

I know both the Philips PAL models can do NTSC, as long as you use RGB.

Keep in mind that, when you use RGB, the difference between PAL and NTSC is the refresh rate so, what really matters is if a monitor can sync to both 50 and 60 hz to be able to display both.

There's also a different number of lines so, with CRTs, some might be able to auto-adjust, others might require manual adjustment to have the image fill the screen entirely.

In Composite or S-Video, instead, the monitor also need to explicitly recognize the different color encodings, otherwise it will usually show a black & white image.

So you might easily have a monitor or a TV which supports (in color) only one standard in Composite/S-Video, but will work perfectly fine in RGB, as long it can support both 50 and 60 hz refresh rates.

This is very well known to console users in Europe buying imported games: you needed to have a TV that could sync 60 hz, and a console with an RGB output using a Scart cable with all RGB pins connected. Since Scart was mandatory in Europe, it explains why RGB connections was far more common than in the US, which later on leaned more to Component video, but this already well into the DVD era.

[albconde]

I have a commodore 1084S with dim6 connector works perfect in pal and ntsc modes with mister , I use this cable from ebay :
https://www.ebay.es/itm/124200576180

[Lamaman1971]

Well, finally got the monitor hooked up using a home made RGB cable (6 pin DIN). Interestingly when using it with Amiga NTSC mode works great BUT PAL flickers noticeably (Im not talking interlaced mode here - just Hi-Res). I wonder if its because Im using Horizontal Sync only (for composite). Perhaps I need to connect up the vertical sync too..

Anyway - on another note - Ive been somewhat concerned about shooting 30Khz through the old girl (so to speak) and wondered if there are any particular cores I need to avoid?

[shertz]

I have a commodore 1084S with dim6 connector works perfect in pal and ntsc modes with mister , I use this cable from ebay :
https://www.ebay.es/itm/124200576180

Will this work on NTSC 1084S?

[limi]

Yes.

[albconde]

I have a commodore 1084S with dim6 connector works perfect in pal and ntsc modes with mister , I use this cable from ebay :
https://www.ebay.es/itm/124200576180

Will this work on NTSC 1084S?

My monitor is pal , the cable use this scheme ( NADA is nothing in spanish)

[Malor]

I ran into a site a year or two ago that listed variants of the 1084 and 1084S.... there are a *lot* of different monitors with that nameplate. Commodore sourced 1084s from whoever would make them cheapest, and they switched vendors, apparently, very frequently. I'm pretty sure I saw about 20 different models of 1084 documented on that site.

I'm sorry I don't remember what it was, but keep in mind that while the 1084 is a fantastic retro monitor in general, you may want to do searches on the FCC ID on the back before committing to a purchase. Some models were definitely better than others.

[seastalker]

Though I've made some of my own cables before, I'd love for someone to make a commercial high quality product to connect a Mister to the RGB/RGBi ports and the like on Commodore monitors.

[shertz]

https://ultimatemister.com/product/mist ... ore-1084s/

[seastalker]

Ultimatemister already has this covered?! Awesome! Does anyone have this product? How is it? I'm confused by the seemingly conflicting description and Specification. The description mentions SCART yet the Specification does not in Connectors' A,B, C. I don't see how scart between the two is even needed? It would be nice if the website had product pictures beyond just the white box.

[shertz]

Ultimatemister already has this covered?! Awesome! Does anyone have this product? How is it? I'm confused by the seemingly conflicting description and Specification. The description mentions SCART yet the Specification does not in Connectors' A,B, C. I don't see how scart between the two is even needed? It would be nice if the website had product pictures beyond just the white box.

It might be a typo. They do offer scart to 1084 adapters. Just email them. They're pretty easy to work with.

[akeley]

Ricardo (Ultimatemister) is active on here as rickdangerous: viewtopic.php?t=30

I've tested a lot of his CRT cables and they are all quality builds and work fine. Pretty sure this one does too.

[Chol]

https://ultimatemister.com/product/mist ... ore-1084s/

Does this require the I/O board? If yes, this should be mentioned/linked in the description.