S-Video and Composite Over Component Output! (Custom Cores)

[matijaerceg]

So from my limited understanding of NES palettes they seem to mostly reproduce various crts, but I'm not sure what palette I should use when I'm already using a ctr?

Is the default (kitrinx) ok for simulating what a nes would look like with the crt I happen to be running on?

They don't reproduce CRTs per se, they approximate the colors you'd get from the NES's composite signal (which happens to fall outside of RGB spec) as interpreted by an analog decoder. That's my layperson's understanding. Because emulators like MiSTer generate RGB, they have to use palettes to approximate the colors that NES generates with its composite encoding process. In any case, kitrinx is a fine approximation, but it's still not exactly what a real NES outputs. Hopefully someone more knowledgeable than me can explain better.

[riblad_om]

So from my limited understanding of NES palettes they seem to mostly reproduce various crts, but I'm not sure what palette I should use when I'm already using a ctr?

Is the default (kitrinx) ok for simulating what a nes would look like with the crt I happen to be running on?

They don't reproduce CRTs per se, they approximate the colors you'd get from the NES's composite signal (which happens to fall outside of RGB spec) as interpreted by an analog decoder. That's my layperson's understanding. Because emulators like MiSTer generate RGB, they have to use palettes to approximate the colors that NES generates with its composite encoding process. In any case, kitrinx is a fine approximation, but it's still not exactly what a real NES outputs. Hopefully someone more knowledgeable than me can explain better.

I was under the impression that these cores exits specifically to generate a non-RGB signal? Or is YC still a derivation of RGB?

[dmckean]

So from my limited understanding of NES palettes they seem to mostly reproduce various crts, but I'm not sure what palette I should use when I'm already using a ctr?

Is the default (kitrinx) ok for simulating what a nes would look like with the crt I happen to be running on?

They don't reproduce CRTs per se, they approximate the colors you'd get from the NES's composite signal (which happens to fall outside of RGB spec) as interpreted by an analog decoder. That's my layperson's understanding. Because emulators like MiSTer generate RGB, they have to use palettes to approximate the colors that NES generates with its composite encoding process. In any case, kitrinx is a fine approximation, but it's still not exactly what a real NES outputs. Hopefully someone more knowledgeable than me can explain better.

I was under the impression that these cores exits specifically to generate a non-RGB signal? Or is YC still a derivation of RGB?

Converting RGB to YC is just a mathematical equalization. It's a different encoding, it's lossy compared to native RGB though but it can still look very good.

Composite is a different animal, it's very lossy and never looks perfect and will always have some dot crawl and other artifacts.

[bahhhh]

Im getting only black screen when using YC cores, cant change nothing, pls send the default ini here. Thx dudes.

[barfood]

Shout-outs to Mike, I have never been able to play Atomic Runner with such accuracy before. Your cores make my 1702 monitor sing!

1awe8O4l.jpg (87.16 KiB) Viewed 5091 times

[barfood]

A good tip for the arcade cores, create a folder called _YCArcade and _YCArcade/cores, please the MRA files in the main folder and the yc arcade cores into the cores folder. Thats currently what I do and it works great, no more worrying about arcade cores getting wiped out.

Sorry if this should be obvious, but where should I get the .mra files compatible with the YCArcade cores? I naively tried using update_all.sh, but it seems like that didn't accomplish anything...

EDIT:

@Mike: Do you think there's a possibility the YC functionality of your cores is included in the default rbf builds? For example, `GenesisYC` has completely replaced `Genesis` for me, so much so that I modified my local `favorites.sh` script so that it generates `.mgl` files that point to the YC cores.

[eobet]

This might get me thrown off the internet, but since I saw on Twitter that you got a PVM, any plans for getting that waterfall blending working on those?

L1061801.jpg (1.02 MiB) Viewed 7333 times

[matijaerceg]

This might get me thrown off the internet, but since I saw on Twitter that you got a PVM, any plans for getting that waterfall blending working on those?

L1061801.jpg

use composite blend option or use composite signal from the MikeS core. Both work great for the waterfall.

[cbo2188]

For composite: Is it best to use VGA to S-video, then S-video to composite adapter?
Or is it ok to use VGA to component, then use an RCA Y cable to combine green and red for composite?

Thanks.

[barfood]

For composite: Is it best to use VGA to S-video, then S-video to composite adapter?
Or is it ok to use VGA to component, then use an RCA Y cable to combine green and red for composite?

Thanks.

I believe using a simple RCA Y to combine green and red for composite will give the best result.
Edit: Apparently, my assumption was wrong, oops!

[dmckean]

For composite: Is it best to use VGA to S-video, then S-video to composite adapter?
Or is it ok to use VGA to component, then use an RCA Y cable to combine green and red for composite?

Thanks.

I believe using a simple RCA Y to combine green and red for composite will give the best result.

It doesn't. It really requires some sort of luma trap to get decent results.

[thorr]

So to get a proper composite output with a luma trap, is there an available solution, or is the circuit still being developed? I want to try this, but not until I can do it safely. Antonio V. said he can provide ready-made adapters once he receives the circuit design. Thanks!

[matijaerceg]

So to get a proper composite output with a luma trap, is there an available solution, or is the circuit still being developed? I want to try this, but not until I can do it safely. Antonio V. said he can provide ready-made adapters once he receives the circuit design. Thanks!

You can make your own: https://twitter.com/qda/status/15194997 ... tGWgJFqz0g

Or you can wait for MikeS's official board

[thorr]

So to get a proper composite output with a luma trap, is there an available solution, or is the circuit still being developed? I want to try this, but not until I can do it safely. Antonio V. said he can provide ready-made adapters once he receives the circuit design. Thanks!

You can make your own: https://twitter.com/qda/status/15194997 ... tGWgJFqz0g

Or you can wait for MikeS's official board

Great, looks easy enough. Thanks!

[MikeS1]

PXL-20220506-033217733.jpg

This might get me thrown off the internet, but since I saw on Twitter that you got a PVM, any plans for getting that waterfall blending working on those?

L1061801.jpg

Wait, you want waterfall blending on a PVM? haha use composite ;P.

Sorry, I've been away on vacation and trying to get out a bit during the summer. I've sent in another revision to my PCB design for the breakout board, and thats only really getting the switches to work correctly to switch between DV / Analog and NTSC/PAL for the luma trap. I have a the specifications / values for the active board using a THS7374 IC that works really well.

[southpaw]

First, huge thanks to Mike S. for adding this feature to the cores! I am loving playing MiSTer on my s-video only PVM and the picture quality is really excellent!

I'm having a strange issue that I think is related to my PVM, but thought I'd ask here about it in case there's a solution.

When there are bright flashes, especially in CPS2 and Neo Geo fighting games after special moves, the screen will momentarily have a sync problem (the image seems to shift up a little). I've also noticed that it seems to drop color and go to black & white even in some cases for a few frames. I tested with an original PS1 and Marvel vs Street Fighter and didn't see the same issue or at least it was a lot less noticeable.

Any ideas what could be the problem?

[akeley]

First, huge thanks to Mike S. for adding this feature to the cores! I am loving playing MiSTer on my s-video only PVM and the picture quality is really excellent!

I'm having a strange issue that I think is related to my PVM, but thought I'd ask here about it in case there's a solution.

Very similar issue here: viewtopic.php?p=53422

[matijaerceg]

@southpaw, you are right, there is a sync issue. Here is how it manifests itself for me:

1. On RGB, Component, and MikeS composite, 240p suite (genesis and SMS cores), the full white and full green test makes the screen jump when switching to those colors. Red and Blue screens have no issue.
2. On MikeS composite, 240p suite full white screen, there is also a jitter on the top 5% of the screen.
3. On RGB, Guwange arcade core for example goes out of sync during some of the brighter scenes, in both the 57hz and 60hz modes

Pork of Mister Addons says:

MiSTer's IO board sync is low. Swap R1
(1K) with something [less resistant] and you should be good to
go

https://github.com/MiSTer-devel/Hardwar ... rd_6.1.pdf

...

I have a few [CRTs] that don’t like the sync level. I’ve been designing a new IO Board that addresses several things, including sync level..

I tried a 330ohm resistor, and it got rid of my sync issues. However, some arcade cores look rather blue-ish, via RGB (no issue on component tho), so I might try something between 330 and 1k.

[MikeS1]

First, huge thanks to Mike S. for adding this feature to the cores! I am loving playing MiSTer on my s-video only PVM and the picture quality is really excellent!

I'm having a strange issue that I think is related to my PVM, but thought I'd ask here about it in case there's a solution.

When there are bright flashes, especially in CPS2 and Neo Geo fighting games after special moves, the screen will momentarily have a sync problem (the image seems to shift up a little). I've also noticed that it seems to drop color and go to black & white even in some cases for a few frames. I tested with an original PS1 and Marvel vs Street Fighter and didn't see the same issue or at least it was a lot less noticeable.

Any ideas what could be the problem?

I'm just happy people are able to enjoy their misters especially with us folks who only have YC or composite !

As for the sync, like others have mentioned, the sync out the analog Io board is not great. I recommend a 430 ohm resistor if your using the analog Io board and if using direct video 330 ohms. These are actually the values I'm using for my new board.

Cheers !

[southpaw]

Thanks everyone for the info about the sync issue! Good to know there is a potential solution. If I am feeling brave, maybe I'll try to swap out the resistor on my IO board.

[AmintaMister]

Hi guys! Great job! So is there an adapter to buy to use with the Mike's cores?

[retro-pc]

I'm just happy people are able to enjoy their misters especially with us folks who only have YC or composite !

As for the sync, like others have mentioned, the sync out the analog Io board is not great. I recommend a 430 ohm resistor if your using the analog Io board and if using direct video 330 ohms. These are actually the values I'm using for my new board.

Cheers !

Mike, hello thank you for the recommendation of the 430 ohm resistor! I am using the Mister with a 21" Viewsonic CRT, a 13" Phillips TV and a 9" Sony TV. I was experiencing all of the composite sync issues mentioned above. It was worse on the Sony and mostly ok on the Philips.

After swapping in the 430 ohm resistor on R1 it was an instant fix, the image is rock solid now. I did a D65 calibration on the Sony before I swapped the resistor. Color is unchanged with the composite signal after the swap.

misterfpga-R1-430.jpg (16.06 KiB) Viewed 6694 times

These Y/C cores look amazing on these TV's, thank you for your efforts with this project. Is there a chance I could please request the Amiga Minimig core whenever you might have some time. The C64 Y/C core looks awesome! I was just playing some Montezuma's revenge thanks!

[riblad_om]

Would it be possible to get an update to the SMS/GG core? The newly added GG extended resolution feature is really useful in some games: for instance I'm playing Lunar and it makes it way easier to navigate dungeons.

[MikeS1]

Would it be possible to get an update to the SMS/GG core? The newly added GG extended resolution feature is really useful in some games: for instance I'm playing Lunar and it makes it way easier to navigate dungeons.

Done! Sorry I just saw your message.

[scampa123]

I’m excited to get the Mister working on my 1702 monitor, however I do have some questions:

1. Do I only need to download the cores? I saw mention of a Mra?? I’m not familiar with that (still new to this)
2. Do I need to edit anything in the mister.ini to make it work?
3. Will the main Mister interface work or do I need to do something for it?

I have the cores downloaded to my Mister. I’ve hooked up the Mister with the vga cable to the splitter for the front panel port (also tried back panel directly) but my v sync is all over the place…not sure if I need the resistor or if it’s an ini config issue yet. I’m using the Analog IO board btw..

Thank you for the assistance!!

[scampa123]

Does this adapter/circuit have the same problems/incompatibility with the Commodore 1701/1702 montiors that your other composite adapter has ?

You don't need any adapters if you have a 1702, I designed the cores to work perfectly with my 1702, it was probably the main reason I worked on the Y/C framework.

You just need a VGA to component cable

Hi @MikeS1, what settings do I need in my mister.ini file for the 1702 monitor with the analog ip board?

Thanks for this! I’m excited to see the Mister work on my 1702!!

[scampa123]

I got my 1702 to work and it looks amazing!!! I hadn’t switched the the slider on the Analog IO board…once I did it worked!

[matijaerceg]

Ok. I will try during this weekend. I consider discard this version of the cheapo board and when the new version it's available I'll replace (send new boards) to buyers of current one.

Hi Antonio, any news on the replacement boards yet?

I checked the signal with my oscilloscope and it looks like the chroma signal is being filtered with the current version, instead of the luma signal, the amplitude of the colorburst signal is really low.

No news. I just do full refund to all buyers. When available you can make order again

Hi Antonio, I noticed the board is back in stock again. Did you fix the boards you're selling?

[antoniovillena]

Hi Antonio, I noticed the board is back in stock again. Did you fix the boards you're selling?

I full refunded all boards (without return), including yours

[matijaerceg]

Hi Antonio, I noticed the board is back in stock again. Did you fix the boards you're selling?

I full refunded all boards (without return), including yours

My question is: your website is showing in stock again https://www.antoniovillena.es/store/pro ... e-adapter/ so does that mean you fixed the problem and are selling the board again?