SNES core hangs/freezes after leaving intro running for a couple hours

[PikWik]

pretty much the title

this did not happen with the previous SNES core, or any of the other cores i leave the intro running for long periods of time, but something with the new SNES core update freezes after a couple of hours

games ive seen it happen the most are chrono trigger and nightmare busters

anybody else able to reproduce this (i know it takes a while )

[yoegrrt]

Hey,
First post here, been a lurker for a while. I went ahead and tested chrono trigger title screen intro. My SNES core is v220909, and Mister v220819, which should be the latest stable build. Tested for 5 hours, and its still going strong no issues. Maybe someone else can comment what the problem might be. I know that its always good to run a RAM test to see if thats the problem.

edit: Oh and incase its important, my chrono trigger rom is a USA one

[ItalianGrandma]

I’m going to test the US version of Chrono Trigger as well. I’ll leave it running for a while and will report back if I see the issue.

[PistolsAtDawn]

Micro SD cards have not ever proven to be reliable in the long term for an OS in my experience. I would pop it out and check it for errors if you can. Or maybe setup a spare card and test this there.

Is your MiSTer cooled? Could it be overheating?

[ItalianGrandma]

Ok, I ran the Chrono Trigger intro for over 3 1/2 hours and it’s still running without issue.

OP, it could be an issue with your SD card, your SDRam module, or your power supply as others have stated. Personally, I would run the memtest tool first and see if there are any issues. If not, check that your power supply is alright and not failing or insufficient. Make sure you have at least a heatsink installed, if not a fan as well. If all that fails to be the issue, you could try completely formatting your SD card and doing a fresh install. If that still doesn’t work, you could try a new SD card.

Also, have you confirmed that if you are actually playing the game for a couple hours that it keeps working fine?

[PikWik]

thank you all that have checked this!
i know that was a big ask to leave it running for that long. and i apologize for not including more information in my original post to troubleshoot further

the MD5 version of chrono trigger im using is 395bf4d0a75717b03c0c2131495faf7a, CRC 8A36ED76 (which is the suggested rom from romhacking.net) im on the latest version of MiSTer OS, v220819, and the latest version of the SNES core, v220909

the MiSTer has a heatsink/noctua fan, and the DE-10 was bought as a complete unit from a main US supplier.
the ram is passing at 140. the SD card is a green 64gb EVO, and i have a meanwell power supply

what makes it stranger still is that it doesnt happen with every game on the SNES core. i can leave earthbound running in the background for hours with no issue, but chrono trigger will freeze at a particular spot every time after a couple hours of running. this is not happening with other cores and was also not happening with a previous version of the core before this update. and also, it doesnt happen if im playing chrono trigger for multiple hours, only if i leave it running on the main intro

i suppose it could be an SD card issue, but i will hold off on doing a full backup due to the amount of time it takes to transfer everything and set it all up

[thorr]

You could just do a simple clean install with that one rom on a new micro sd card. That shouldn't take long.

[ItalianGrandma]

the MD5 version of chrono trigger im using is 395bf4d0a75717b03c0c2131495faf7a, CRC 8A36ED76 (which is the suggested rom from romhacking.net)

Wait, are you running a Chrono Trigger hack? I just tested with the standard version of Chrono Trigger…

Not seeing the relevance of using the rom that romhacking recommends unless you’re running a patched rom. If that’s the case, it could certainly be something with the patch/hack. I’ll go ahead and try the other game you mentioned too tomorrow as well to see.

Edit: My version of the rom was different than what you had (unheadered vs headered). I've loaded up the same rom as you and will let it run for a few hours here and see if it locks up.

[ItalianGrandma]

thank you all that have checked this!
i know that was a big ask to leave it running for that long. and i apologize for not including more information in my original post to troubleshoot further

the MD5 version of chrono trigger im using is 395bf4d0a75717b03c0c2131495faf7a, CRC 8A36ED76 (which is the suggested rom from romhacking.net) im on the latest version of MiSTer OS, v220819, and the latest version of the SNES core, v220909

the MiSTer has a heatsink/noctua fan, and the DE-10 was bought as a complete unit from a main US supplier.
the ram is passing at 140. the SD card is a green 64gb EVO, and i have a meanwell power supply

what makes it stranger still is that it doesnt happen with every game on the SNES core. i can leave earthbound running in the background for hours with no issue, but chrono trigger will freeze at a particular spot every time after a couple hours of running. this is not happening with other cores and was also not happening with a previous version of the core before this update. and also, it doesnt happen if im playing chrono trigger for multiple hours, only if i leave it running on the main intro

i suppose it could be an SD card issue, but i will hold off on doing a full backup due to the amount of time it takes to transfer everything and set it all up

Ok, I ran a copy of Chrono Trigger with the same MD5 as yours for 3 hours with no issues. I also ran Nightmare Busters for around 2 hours with no issues.

I wouldn’t be surprised if it ends up being an SD card issue.

[PikWik]

I wouldn’t be surprised if it ends up being an SD card issue.

i would accept that answer, but i was under the impression that once a game/ROM is loaded, there is no more SD card access until you save the game/SRAM by opening the OSD menu, and even then the MiSTer is only saving to a separate location from the ROM and core folder location

im also reluctant to think its an SD card issue, as another user has reported a weird SNES core freezing issue where their controllers stop responding, but switching the SNES core version to another one before the v220909 update works - viewtopic.php?t=5393

as of now, ill just not leave those games running in the background as an attract mode and cross my fingers that the next SNES update fixes things

[darksakul]

Micro SD cards have not ever proven to be reliable in the long term for an OS in my experience. I would pop it out and check it for errors if you can. Or maybe setup a spare card and test this there.

Is your MiSTer cooled? Could it be overheating?

That's half true. With Modern OS yes such as Windows 10/11, you don't want to run off a SD card.
Older OS. like Win 98, you should be fine.

With the MiSTer, as it uses such a stripped down and minimalized version of Linux as the back end, and cores seldom do any writes (mostly with game saves or updates), your SD card should be fine for YEARS.

And reads shouldn't be a problem its writes that there a fix limit. With modern SD cards you have to Write and Erase data daily on that SD card for decades before you wear it out.

The Cyclone V don't really need that much cooling, it pretty tolerant with temps.
You have the a Mister in a close case with no ventilation in a room with high ambient temperatures before you see temperature issues
The All Aluminum case from Mister Addons is the exception as the whole case acts as a heat sink.

With how most people slap on a heat sink and a 40mm 5v fan, the MiSTer shouldn't over heat over long periods of use.
Still I wouldn't run the intro of a game on a MiSTer Core for that long.

[PistolsAtDawn]

That's half true. With Modern OS yes such as Windows 10/11, you don't want to run off a SD card.
Older OS. like Win 98, you should be fine.

With the MiSTer, as it uses such a stripped down and minimalized version of Linux as the back end, and cores seldom do any writes (mostly with game saves or updates), your SD card should be fine for YEARS.

And reads shouldn't be a problem its writes that there a fix limit. With modern SD cards you have to Write and Erase data daily on that SD card for decades before you wear it out.

Agreed in general. As with most things, the devil is in the details. Something I've come across before: Counterfeit Samsung EVO cards are commonly sold by Amazon as real because Amazon mixes their stock in with third party vendors as long as the SKU is the same, but they do no verification that the third party's stock is genuine. Point being that even when a customer orders what is supposed to be a good quality SD card, sometimes they get a very convincing counterfeit and don't notice until odd issues are seen like the one in question here.

(Though I think OP has an EVO Select which are only made for Amazon, so it should be genuine if so.)

People are also often impatient and eject their cards from a computer without giving them proper time to finish writing and unmount cleanly. Like when adding ROMs maybe. Hell, I know better and still sometimes do this accidentally with SD cards.

So in general when I offer diagnostic advice to people online, I always treat the SD card as being suspect by default. It never hurts to try another to see if the problem behavior is able to be replicated.

[ItalianGrandma]

I wouldn’t be surprised if it ends up being an SD card issue.

i would accept that answer, but i was under the impression that once a game/ROM is loaded, there is no more SD card access until you save the game/SRAM by opening the OSD menu, and even then the MiSTer is only saving to a separate location from the ROM and core folder location

im also reluctant to think its an SD card issue, as another user has reported a weird SNES core freezing issue where their controllers stop responding, but switching the SNES core version to another one before the v220909 update works - viewtopic.php?t=5393

as of now, ill just not leave those games running in the background as an attract mode and cross my fingers that the next SNES update fixes things

Well, when I say SD card issue, I guess I really mean file system issue…you could have some slightly corrupted files or something causing the issue (not technical enough to know what it could REALLY be :p).

I would also say it’s doubtful that it’s an issue with the core itself since I’m also using the latest version of the core and it’s running these intro screens for hours with no issues.

Definitely a weird issue though for sure! If you’ve got another SD card around I would definitely try a fresh install and see if that works.

[MottZilla]

Is the ROM in a ZIP file? If it's not it opens up the possibility of file corruption not being detected. When a file is unzipped it should check that the data extracted equals the CRC value expected. But when just loading a plain uncompressed ROM there is no way to know if a single bit is somehow flipped. Also SNES games generally don't have checksum checks for their ROM. Some though not all Genesis games do perform a checksum test at power up.

So if your ROM isn't in a ZIP archive, maybe copy over a fresh copy of the file in a ZIP and see if that does better. If it is in a ZIP file I'd wonder if it's some weird edge case issue with SDRAM.

[Malor]

As additional anecdata, my system has been running the Chrono Trigger intro for a little more than 6 hours, and it's still working fine. Sound is undistorted, and remains perfectly synced with the video.

[bootsector]

pretty much the title

this did not happen with the previous SNES core, or any of the other cores i leave the intro running for long periods of time, but something with the new SNES core update freezes after a couple of hours

games ive seen it happen the most are chrono trigger and nightmare busters

anybody else able to reproduce this (i know it takes a while )

Are you able to test this with a cheap 32MB RAM module?

[PikWik]

hmm, i am not. i only have a 128

i can say, the SNES core wouldnt freeze while leaving a games intro running for a long time until i made that post, and i have left many arcade cores running in attract mode for hours since

but i havent run the SNES core intros since making this post, and i do know there have been several updates to the core since making this post.
if its does happen again, i will update yall

[PikWik]

yes, tested again while i did my weekend routine, left chrono trigger demo on for a couple hours, and the game froze up

i do want to note, its only the game that freezes and not the core.
i can access the SNES core menu as normal, and the controller responds to button pushes

---

i cant confirm if its the RAM, but i am going to assume at this point that it is the RAM and a newer version of the 128 will work.
i bought the entire kit before the chip shortage and price hikes, so perhaps its a slightly out of date 128,
but it also doesnt happen when i play other SNES games for hours and hours, so who knows at this point.

could very well just be a corrupted ROM file and a redownload of chrono trigger may fix it. i will try that next

[ReverendGumby]

On the off chance that you still remember, was this screen where the freeze happened?

[rcade]

Agreed in general. As with most things, the devil is in the details. Something I've come across before: Counterfeit Samsung EVO cards are commonly sold by Amazon as real because Amazon mixes their stock in with third party vendors as long as the SKU is the same, but they do no verification that the third party's stock is genuine. Point being that even when a customer orders what is supposed to be a good quality SD card, sometimes they get a very convincing counterfeit and don't notice until odd issues are seen like the one in question here.

(Though I think OP has an EVO Select which are only made for Amazon, so it should be genuine if so.)

People are also often impatient and eject their cards from a computer without giving them proper time to finish writing and unmount cleanly. Like when adding ROMs maybe. Hell, I know better and still sometimes do this accidentally with SD cards.

So in general when I offer diagnostic advice to people online, I always treat the SD card as being suspect by default. It never hurts to try another to see if the problem behavior is able to be replicated.

I've run into that before. I think the best way to get a good one is to order directly!

https://www.westerndigital.com/brand/sandisk

[AtomicShroom]

I’ve left the Chrono Trigger intro run for over 6 hours now and it hasn’t crashed. After how long does it happen to you?

[PikWik]

apologies for taking so long to reply. it is a time consuming task of testing for this issue and also playing games on the MiSTer.
this is where it would happen every time i would run Chrono Trigger and just let it play the intro without me touching anything,
then it would freeze after about 3 hours

noting, i could still access the MiSTer menu, it was just the game that would freeze and not the whole system

notice i said "would" ...

what i tried was downloading a new ROM, which had the same freeze. i bought some of that new Taki RAM, but still the same. and then i saw a kind of bigger update to the SNES core was released yesterday, so i installed it and tried again.... & thank the FPGA gods, ran the whole night with no freezes!!

what i do know, the cores from SNES_20220909.rbf to the release of SNES_20240919.rbf were throwing "something" off after a certain number of the intros playing. i was not having the issue prior to SNES_20220909.rbf (could of been SNES_20220712.rbf, but most likely 20220909).

when looking up how long the intro plays for, it is about 3min5sec (185 seconds). since this seemed to happen exactly around 3 hours (10,800 seconds), something was happening around the 64th time the intro was playing. this may or may not have caused the game freezing, im not knowledgeable about the inner workings of the core to have a real answer.

either way, it was a minor annoyance, but now its fixed!