Using MiSTer With a Fan, but No Heatsink?

[akeley]

I've relocated recently and left my old MiSTer setup in storage. The new one I have consists of DE10 board + analogue IO with a standard fan. I don't have any heatsink at the moment and was wondering if it's ok to use it like that? It's not in the case and the ambient room temperature is ~20-25C.

I could theoretically order it from the usual sources, but for various reasons it'd be a lot of hassle and most likely take a long time to get here, so if realistically this setup right now is ok I'd prefer to stick with it.

[C-R-T]

It is designed and verified to be used without a fan and heat sink, so yes, you’ll be fine. There’s a lot of fear mongering and FOMO in the mister community, try to ignore that.

[Cebion]

You might want to have a look at this test-bench someone did =)

https://www.caminventions.com/2020/01/t ... ervations/

[annette]

The DE-10 is rated for up to 100°C operation and it doesn’t get nearly that hot. Do I really need a fan or heatsink?

A number of complex cores (like ao486) benefit from having the chip at cooler temperatures, since heat can affect the tight timings they require. A fan is recommended to avoid any possible glitches, but you won't damage your DE10-Nano if you choose not to use one.

Does my MiSTer need cooling?

Yes, you will want at least a heatsink (passive cooling). 22mm x 22mm is the ideal size. 20mm x 20mm is more than enough however and is more common. Active cooling with a fan helps but is not strictly required. Some faster cores like ao486 or PSX may generate a lot of heat.

faq answer from https://mister-devel.github.io/MkDocs_M ... asics/faq/

tldr you might have issue with no cooling at all with some cores but heatsinks are not costing much, so why not help improve thermals and core stability.

[akeley]

I know the faq stuff and, obviously, if it was easy for me to get that heatsink I'd just do that. But it isn't, and also this topic has always been kinda vague, so I thought additional discussion won't hurt.

You might want to have a look at this test-bench someone did =)

https://www.caminventions.com/2020/01/t ... ervations/

Interesting, thanks. Based on this, a quick'n dirty math says fan knocks off ~15C off the whole thing. So if fan-only temps could be between 50-60C then it's not too bad I guess. Though this math is really "dirty", so...

Another measurement by Misteraddons: https://misteraddons.com/blogs/news/is- ... -aluminium

This is regarding an aluminium case, also fan+heatsink I think - bar the last "heatsink only" result? One thing that caught my eye was the ao486 test which isn't that much higher than Menu or other cores, thus somewhat disproving the received wisdom that it's the "hottest" core. Or maybe I'm reading it all wrong.

Here's also a quote from Mr.PSX himself

"FPGAzumSpass

3 yr. ago

Housing: if you use one, the heat must get out of the housing or at least should be equally distributed.

Depends on the core. Some Mister cores don't fulfill the timing constraints, which makes them more stable at lower temperature. It's like running your PC overclocked. For the Cyclone 5, Altera/Intel states about 10-15% faster switching times when running at 0°C compared to 100°

That being said: if you only use cores with timing pass and no housing, you can easily go without even a heatsink.

You may still improve lifetime with a fan that cools all other components. Power supply on boards are often the first point of failure and lower temperature also reduces the power that is drawn. This of course works best if you take the input voltage for attaching the fan and not after some regulator, as this will add additional stress."

For now I'll leave it as-is, I'm only using it 1-2 hrs max daily anyway.

[Psygho]

Well just put heat sink and fan... It would not break the bank....
I do not understand if you would even try it without....

[Malor]

Depending on your particular board, you may not need any cooling at all. With mine, I wasn't so lucky; the Minimig core gets glitchy if the board isn't kept reasonably cool. Only a few cores are really heat-sensitive, so if you avoid those, you're probably okay even if you do have a subpar Nano like mine.

That said, the 22mm heatsinks are usually very cheap. I got a bag of ten for, um, I think it was like eight bucks. You might even be able to find something locally; that's the kind of thing electronics stores often stock.

If shipping is your only option, you should be able to get along easily until one finally shows up.

[akeley]

Well just put heat sink and fan... It would not break the bank....
I do not understand if you would even try it without....

C'mon guys, I've already explained it, like, twice. It really isn't about a few bucks these things cost. Also, I do have a fan. It even says so in the title

I live in Taiwan, it's an island on the Pacific, things take forever to get here and are often straddled with additional costs. Finding something locally can be a pain if you don't speak/read Chinese. I have already looked in local shops, they only have big ones. Even so, it is of course possible to get one, and so it isn't the only reason I have started this thread. As I said in the previous post,

this topic has always been kinda vague, so I thought additional discussion won't hurt.

Yes, some cores are said to be more sensitive to temperature, and seeing as Minimig and ao486 are actually my favourites it might be interesting to see how they behave in this fan-only setup. Even though the MisterAddons test I linked to above seems to show ao isn't really that much hotter than other cores.

[Malor]

FWIW, the fan is way more important than the heatsink.