UX for the Poor 8088

[jordi]

Edit we did this one

https://github.com/jsmolina/simple-menu-dos-launcher/

I was playing (these are POCs, that's why they are on Gists) last weekend with Total Dos Launcher. It's a very nice launcher, but the script forces you to zip the games. If you don't zip, it copies all the files from all the games in the same folder.

Decompressing a zip each time a game launches it's too much for the poor 8088. And it gives some CRC errors (yes, already).

Program launchers from the past are very tedious as they require lot of hours for something that can be easily automated just using modern scripting languages.

In the opposite approach, there are other ways to do it:

The menu.pl
This POC generates a .yaml file and copies "Long Name" directories into "DOS Friendly Directories", this yaml is then input in menu.pl. This menu.pl is a code I found from ShadowM00n, that I would port also to python if you (all) like the idea. This one just generates a fancy .bat file with paging using the classic choice command. I don't know something more lightweight than that.
https://gist.github.com/jsmolina/d2d397 ... 77a8b5b620

197800057-3bf2cbca-efcf-4b58-afed-6e2ce7f3812d.png (126.17 KiB) Viewed 12886 times

Rloader
This one does the same idea of copying the "Long name directories", but generates a LIST.txt expected in RLoader (https://github.com/marco-sacchi/RLoader ).
https://gist.github.com/jsmolina/6d1c43 ... 1629f1b70c

RLoader supports the text mode which will be nice for our poor 8088

197800869-4579a54e-df11-404d-93c9-b7df147d4a50.png (129.34 KiB) Viewed 12875 times

Is it worth it?

[spark2k06]

Good idea. Personally I like RLoader, now what we also have to do is to prepare a good list of games compatible with the core, both Tandy 1000 and PCXT, and always launch a BAT using XTCTL to run each game in the best conditions.

[jordi]

Good idea. Personally I like RLoader, now what we also have to do is to prepare a good list of games compatible with the core, both Tandy 1000 and PCXT, and always launch a BAT using XTCTL to run each game in the best conditions.

yes, we could prioritize the 'auto detection' of the executable and look for a run.bat here:


The script needs some iterations to productize. But I like the idea of having wireframes before doing the whole thing.

[Newsdee]

There is MyMenu created by by BinaryBond007. It may work better than TDL?
It can be found as part of this pack:
https://github.com/bbond007/DOS_Shareware_MyMenu

[jordi]

There is MyMenu created by by BinaryBond007. It may work better than TDL?
It can be found as part of this pack:
https://github.com/bbond007/DOS_Shareware_MyMenu

But that requires Long file name Fat32, isn't it?

[bbond007]

But that requires Long file name Fat32, isn't it?

It needs a LFN driver otherwise it is limited to 11 chars for directory names when LFN is disabled.

DOSLFN is not compatible with XT computers, however, LFNDOS can be used.

I have corrected some keyboard issues when running on the PCXT core and translated the UI drawing privatives into assembly (faster) and I'm not sure if the bin in the shareware pack includes those latest changes, sill it is probably the best reference on the the INI file that exists.

Edit: updated 2/15/2023

MYMENU_$09DF.zip

(41.46 KiB) Downloaded 173 times

[AmintaMister]

But that requires Long file name Fat32, isn't it?

It needs a LFN driver otherwise it is limited to 11 chars for directory names.

DOSLFN is not compatible with XT computers, however, LFNDOS can be used when LFN is disabled.

I have corrected some keyboard issues when running on the PCXT core and translated the UI drawing privatives into assembly and I'm not sure if the bin in the shareware pack includes those latest changes, sill it is a good reference on the INI file.

MYMENU_$09D1.ZIP

Thanks, your program is excellent and I use it in all my MiSTer-as-PC-Dos configurations!

[Newsdee]

But that requires Long file name Fat32, isn't it?

I'm not sure if the bin in the shareware pack includes those latest changes, sill it is probably the best reference on the the INI file that exists.

So going through the INI file, it seems like we need to remove the TURBO options so only the "slow" one remains?

Code: Select all

# TURBO=Full - 486;       $A100
# TURBO=Med  - 286/386;   $A1A0
TURBO=Slow - XT 8088;   $A1A1

Or would it be enough to just have this?

Code: Select all

TURBO=F

Other than that, I suppose we'd need to review which screensavers and utilities won't work with PCXT so as avoid accidentally launching them,
for example I suppose most of the Audio players won't work...

[bbond007]

So going through the INI file, it seems like we need to remove the TURBO options so only the "slow" one remains?

Code: Select all

# TURBO=Full - 486;       $A100
# TURBO=Med  - 286/386;   $A1A0
TURBO=Slow - XT 8088;   $A1A1

Remove them all... because changing speed on PCXT is not supported (yet)

Other than that, I suppose we'd need to review which screensavers and utilities won't work with PCXT so as avoid accidentally launching them,
for example I suppose most of the Audio players won't work...

Right, a lot of that stuff won't work... VGA screensavers, MODs, SIDs...

As far as Audio players, one thing I did add is support for VGM (to the popup) which I'm hoping will be a good match for this core.

Code: Select all

###### MUSIC PLAYER INTEGRATION OPTIONS ######
#VGM
.VGM  = SBVGM;C:\PLAYERS\SBVGM\SBVGM.EXE

Also set CGA=T to disable the VGA specific stuff.

[jordi]

So going through the INI file, it seems like we need to remove the TURBO options so only the "slow" one remains?

Code: Select all

# TURBO=Full - 486;       $A100
# TURBO=Med  - 286/386;   $A1A0
TURBO=Slow - XT 8088;   $A1A1

Remove them all... because changing speed on PCXT is not supported (yet)

Other than that, I suppose we'd need to review which screensavers and utilities won't work with PCXT so as avoid accidentally launching them,
for example I suppose most of the Audio players won't work...

Right, a lot of that stuff won't work... VGA screensavers, MODs, SIDs...

As far as Audio players, one thing I did add is support for VGM (to the popup) which I'm hoping will be a good match for this core.

Code: Select all

###### MUSIC PLAYER INTEGRATION OPTIONS ######
#VGM
.VGM  = SBVGM;C:\PLAYERS\SBVGM\SBVGM.EXE

Also set CGA=T to disable the VGA specific stuff.

It is supported, the author did an utility

[jordi]

I uploaded it there
https://github.com/jsmolina/simple-menu-dos-launcher


Update, Mills added this nice look and feel:

198902575-1d5ac892-c79a-4447-81f7-1aa81dfe865f.png (81.35 KiB) Viewed 12876 times

[AmintaMister]

So going through the INI file, it seems like we need to remove the TURBO options so only the "slow" one remains?

Code: Select all

# TURBO=Full - 486;       $A100
# TURBO=Med  - 286/386;   $A1A0
TURBO=Slow - XT 8088;   $A1A1

Remove them all... because changing speed on PCXT is not supported (yet)

Other than that, I suppose we'd need to review which screensavers and utilities won't work with PCXT so as avoid accidentally launching them,
for example I suppose most of the Audio players won't work...

Right, a lot of that stuff won't work... VGA screensavers, MODs, SIDs...

As far as Audio players, one thing I did add is support for VGM (to the popup) which I'm hoping will be a good match for this core.

Code: Select all

###### MUSIC PLAYER INTEGRATION OPTIONS ######
#VGM
.VGM  = SBVGM;C:\PLAYERS\SBVGM\SBVGM.EXE

Also set CGA=T to disable the VGA specific stuff.

Ok, so today I've created a 512MB hard disk with 1024 cylinders in 86Box, I've made Fdisk on it with Compaq Dos 3.31 - the only 3.3x Dos that supports partitions of 521MB. I've formatted, made "sys c:", then copied the content of the 3 floppy disks Compaq 3.31 Dos to C:\, then copied the new mymenu.exe for PCXT in mymenu folder together with the .ini with lfn and cga set to true. I've loaded lfndos with autoexec.bat, mymenu starts perfectly but after some browsing in games folder with long file names it gives me this error: "Only fat (ie: dos formatted) disk drives are supported.

Any hint?

In general, is it possibile to run a 512MB HD image with Compaq Dos 3.31 in this core without issues? I've noticed some random issues like no correct label for disk C...

[Newsdee]

In general, is it possibile to run a 512MB HD image with Compaq Dos 3.31 in this core without issues? I've noticed some random issues like no correct label for disk C...

Have you tried makng a snaller disk to see if it works? Maybe the problem is with that Compaq Dos.

[AmintaMister]

In general, is it possibile to run a 512MB HD image with Compaq Dos 3.31 in this core without issues? I've noticed some random issues like no correct label for disk C...

Have you tried makng a snaller disk to see if it works? Maybe the problem is with that Compaq Dos.

Sure it can be, but I think the best way to play the games from 1981 to 1987 is how they were played, that is with Dos 3.x; so, to use this Dos version and a 512MB Hd together I've tried the Compaq Dos...

[bbond007]

So going through the INI file, it seems like we need to remove the TURBO options so only the "slow" one remains?

Code: Select all

# TURBO=Full - 486;       $A100
# TURBO=Med  - 286/386;   $A1A0
TURBO=Slow - XT 8088;   $A1A1

Or would it be enough to just have this?

You can still # out those "TURBO" options to disable the feature entirely, however,

After doing some testing the feature works great - just needs correct parameters:

Code: Select all

###### F3 (turbo) feature
TURBO=14Mz - Steroids XT;  $000c
TURBO=7Mhz - Turbo  XT;    $0008
TURBO=4Mhz - IBM 5150;     $0004

I was messing with .VGM music files tonight

Code: Select all

###### MUSIC PLAYER INTEGRATION OPTIONS ######
#VGM
.VGM  = SBVGM;C:\PLAYERS\SBVGM.EXE -a388
.VGZ  = SBVGM;C:\PLAYERS\SBVGM.EXE -a388

VGMFUN.JPG (394.77 KiB) Viewed 12961 times

VGMFUN2.JPG (332.48 KiB) Viewed 12961 times

To make this little VGM collection, I just renamed all included .TXT files to README.ANS and I simply copied the directory structure to my VHD and that is it. No indexing, Python, etc...

[bbond007]

Ok, so today I've created a 512MB hard disk with 1024 cylinders in 86Box, I've made Fdisk on it with Compaq Dos 3.31 - the only 3.3x Dos that supports partitions of 521MB. I've formatted, made "sys c:", then copied the content of the 3 floppy disks Compaq 3.31 Dos to C:\, then copied the new mymenu.exe for PCXT in mymenu folder together with the .ini with lfn and cga set to true. I've loaded lfndos with autoexec.bat, mymenu starts perfectly but after some browsing in games folder with long file names it gives me this error: "Only fat (ie: dos formatted) disk drives are supported.

Any hint?

In general, is it possibile to run a 512MB HD image with Compaq Dos 3.31 in this core without issues? I've noticed some random issues like no correct label for disk C...

Never seen that specific "Only fat (ie: dos formatted) disk drives are supported." error...

The largest drive I'm using is 488MB with PCDos 7.0 Revision 1. (628K free conventional RAM free with CTMOUSE and LFNDOD loaded BTW)

I'd also like to try a more appropriate era DOS (supporting larger drives) version such as 3.11...

Maybe its because you made the drive in X86Box?

Just a long shot, but why not format the drive in PCXT, and then inject your files and see what happens.

[Mills]

So going through the INI file, it seems like we need to remove the TURBO options so only the "slow" one remains?

Code: Select all

# TURBO=Full - 486;       $A100
# TURBO=Med  - 286/386;   $A1A0
TURBO=Slow - XT 8088;   $A1A1

Or would it be enough to just have this?

You can still # out those "TURBO" options to disable the feature entirely, however,

After doing some testing the feature works great - just needs correct parameters:

Code: Select all

###### F3 (turbo) feature
TURBO=14Mz - Steroids XT;  $000c
TURBO=7Mhz - Turbo  XT;    $0008
TURBO=4Mhz - IBM 5150;     $0004

I was messing with .VGM music files tonight

Code: Select all

###### MUSIC PLAYER INTEGRATION OPTIONS ######
#VGM
.VGM  = SBVGM;C:\PLAYERS\SBVGM.EXE -a388
.VGZ  = SBVGM;C:\PLAYERS\SBVGM.EXE -a388

VGMFUN.JPG
VGMFUN2.JPG


To make this little VGM collection, I just renamed all included .TXT files to README.ANS and I simply copied the directory structure to my VHD and that is it. No indexing, Python, etc...

Nice player. I also made a vgm player (it plays a lot of adlib formats) but it is not 100% working with VGMS, and it is a lot simpler than this.

Just in case people wants to try: https://github.com/mills32/Adplug-for-8088-86

[AmintaMister]

Ok, so today I've created a 512MB hard disk with 1024 cylinders in 86Box, I've made Fdisk on it with Compaq Dos 3.31 - the only 3.3x Dos that supports partitions of 521MB. I've formatted, made "sys c:", then copied the content of the 3 floppy disks Compaq 3.31 Dos to C:\, then copied the new mymenu.exe for PCXT in mymenu folder together with the .ini with lfn and cga set to true. I've loaded lfndos with autoexec.bat, mymenu starts perfectly but after some browsing in games folder with long file names it gives me this error: "Only fat (ie: dos formatted) disk drives are supported.

Any hint?

In general, is it possibile to run a 512MB HD image with Compaq Dos 3.31 in this core without issues? I've noticed some random issues like no correct label for disk C...

Never seen that specific "Only fat (ie: dos formatted) disk drives are supported." error...

The largest drive I'm using is 488MB with PCDos 7.0 Revision 1. (628K free conventional RAM free with CTMOUSE and LFNDOD loaded BTW)

I'd also like to try a more appropriate era DOS (supporting larger drives) version such as 3.11...

Maybe its because you made the drive in X86Box?

Just a long shot, but why not format the drive in PCXT, and then inject your files and see what happens.

Hi @bbond007! I've tried on PCXT core on the MiSTer but I get the same error... Can I give you a link to my .img so you can test it? It would be useful for many people to make it work...

Thanks!

[bbond007]

Nice player. I also made a vgm player (it plays a lot of adlib formats) but it is not 100% working with VGMS, and it is a lot simpler than this.

Just in case people wants to try: https://github.com/mills32/Adplug-for-8088-86

I think you misunderstand my intended purpose for MyMenu... It's not really a music player.

It is launcher/menu (that supports mouse and joystick addition to keyboard) and understands long filenames to avoid tedious indexing.

It is also intended to be a front-end for existing players (Like SBVGM and DOSMID). However (the popup) does support reading the metadata for .MID, .MOD, .XM, .SID and .MP3 files as well as .EXE, .TXT and .ANS files.

It supports configurable "handlers" for different file extensions, but also Multiple handlers can be defined for any file extension and if more than one is provided then it will present the user with a dialog menu with the available choices.

example:

Code: Select all

#VGM files:
.VGM  = SBVGM;C:\PLAYERS\SBVGM.EXE -a388
.VGM  = Adplug OPL2;C:\PLAYERS\ADPLAY88.EXE

That being said, I did try your Adplug OPL2 and it looks very nice and I very much like the visuals, however, it locks up the PCXT core the moment I press the esc key. Maybe it is my PCDOS configuration or some sort of compatibility issue with the WIP core.

Also it would be nice if it allowed just specifying the file you want to play as a command line parameter and exit afterwards which something I could easily do, but the lockup issue obviously would be a bigger challenge for me.

[bbond007]

Hi @bbond007! I've tried on PCXT core on the MiSTer but I get the same error... Can I give you a link to my .img so you can test it? It would be useful for many people to make it work...

yeah, PM it to me or hit me up on Discord...

[Mills]

I think you misunderstand my intended purpose for MyMenu... It's not really a music player.

Sorry , awesome launcher, just be careful with ram usage, it might freeze the pc/core/emulator when loading some games and programs.

That being said, I did try your Adplug OPL2 and it looks very nice and I very much like the visuals, however, it locks up the PCXT core the moment I press the esc key. Maybe it is my PCDOS configuration or some sort of compatibility issue with the WIP core.

Thanks for testing the adplay, It works well with my config (pcem dosbox and pcxt), but it has bugs. It probably won't work if there is something else running on ram (TSR's), or if you load it from other program like your launcher. (norton commander browser also freezes some games because of ram usage or keyboard/joystick custom interrupts).

[AmintaMister]

Hi @bbond007! I've tried on PCXT core on the MiSTer but I get the same error... Can I give you a link to my .img so you can test it? It would be useful for many people to make it work...

yeah, PM it to me or hit me up on Discord...

PM sent!

[bbond007]

Sorry , awesome launcher, just be careful with ram usage, it might freeze the pc/core/emulator when loading some games and programs.

It swaps out used conventional memory to EMS/XMS or disk leaving around a 1K footprint leaving 628K conventional RAM free.

Thanks for testing the adplay, It works well with my config (pcem dosbox and pcxt), but it has bugs. It probably won't work if there is something else running on ram (TSR's), or if you load it from other program like your launcher. (norton commander browser also freezes some games because of ram usage or keyboard/joystick custom interrupts).

I'm not hooking any hardware interrupts. PC joysticks don't use hardware interrupts, the only thing involving interrupts (with joysticks) is that CLI/STI are called in the joystick polling loop for accurate results. Joystick polling does not occur when the menu has swapped out. As far as the keyboard I'm just using BIOS.

Also the freeze happens when launched straight form DOS.

I do have several TSRs loaded like CTMOUSE.EXE, DOSMAX.EXE, LTEMM.EXE and LFNDOS.EXE.

I'll try without those to see if the conflict is there and report back.

[Mills]

It swaps out used conventional memory to EMS/XMS or disk leaving around a 1K footprint leaving 628K conventional RAM free.

Awesome I have to test this .

Also the freeze happens when launched straight form DOS.

I do have several TSRs loaded like CTMOUSE.EXE, DOSMAX.EXE, LTEMM.EXE and LFNDOS.EXE.

I'll try without those to see if the conflict is there and report back.

Thanks, it has some bugs, (I'm not really an experienced programmer), but it worked well for me, even in a real 286 pc, so maybe the tsr's are doing something, or my code has some memory leaks

EDIT: I discovered the bug, it was setting sound blaster parameters that are not present on pcxt (it only has adlib), the released binary from github was not updated.

[jordi]

So going through the INI file, it seems like we need to remove the TURBO options so only the "slow" one remains?

Code: Select all

# TURBO=Full - 486;       $A100
# TURBO=Med  - 286/386;   $A1A0
TURBO=Slow - XT 8088;   $A1A1

Remove them all... because changing speed on PCXT is not supported (yet)

Other than that, I suppose we'd need to review which screensavers and utilities won't work with PCXT so as avoid accidentally launching them,
for example I suppose most of the Audio players won't work...

Right, a lot of that stuff won't work... VGA screensavers, MODs, SIDs...

As far as Audio players, one thing I did add is support for VGM (to the popup) which I'm hoping will be a good match for this core.

Code: Select all

###### MUSIC PLAYER INTEGRATION OPTIONS ######
#VGM
.VGM  = SBVGM;C:\PLAYERS\SBVGM\SBVGM.EXE

Also set CGA=T to disable the VGA specific stuff.

Just a bit of offtopic
could you please help us on how to execute a program? What are the parameters, and what the executable.

I've seen lots of examples, but all of them are incomplete. And they make boxerapp (dosbox in macos) crash.

Edit: we found proper documentation.

[bbond007]

EDIT: I discovered the bug, it was setting sound blaster parameters that are not present on pcxt (it only has adlib), the released binary from github was not updated.

Thanks for finding the bug! That would have taken me a long time (not being the author of the program).

I like your music player. Think the UI is pretty sweet. I like that it provides visuals unlike SBVGM.

I've been altering it some to add some command line params so that it will play nice with MyMenu. I've altered it so that params corresponds to the initial menu choices options.

With ao486 I'm using:

ADPLUG88.EXE 1 2 N [Filename]

With PCXT I'm using:

ADPLUG88.EXE 0 1 N [Filename]

My WIP is here:
https://github.com/bbond007/Adplug-for-8088-86

This video shows the usage --> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=td-rpItVmuI

[jordi]

There's a new release for the menu, it only takes 1K of memory!! Thanks to Mills.

https://github.com/jsmolina/simple-menu ... es/tag/0.9

[bbond007]

Thanks, it has some bugs, (I'm not really an experienced programmer), but it worked well for me, even in a real 286 pc, so maybe the tsr's are doing something, or my code has some memory leaks

I forgot to mention (as I corrected this in my WIP fork where I added the param support) but I did notice a file handle leak in Set_Map(), but no memory leaks so far...

[Newsdee]

I uploaded it there
https://github.com/jsmolina/simple-menu-dos-launcher

Can I make a small request? Could you add keyboard shortcuts such as these?

• Left/Right arrow keys for PageUp/PageDown
• Home (go to beginning), End (last item on list), PgUp, PgDown
• Type a letter -> go to the first item with that letter

It would really help with larger lists.

[jordi]

I uploaded it there
https://github.com/jsmolina/simple-menu-dos-launcher

Can I make a small request? Could you add keyboard shortcuts such as these?

• Left/Right arrow keys for PageUp/PageDown
• Home (go to beginning), End (last item on list), PgUp, PgDown
• Type a letter -> go to the first item with that letter

It would really help with larger lists.

Hi! Full list is never loaded for memory reasons, so letter typing can't be done. But, the pg up/down is already on next things to do
Home/End should be also possible as lines are counted.