PSX via VGA to PC CRT 31 Khz Monitor not Working

[naylord]

Hello, I just got a PC 31 KHz monitor and it's been amazing for every core. It's like what I dreamed a PVM would be. Only issue is, I can't get the PSX core working on it. Genesis/arcade cores/snes/x86000 and others are all working fine but PSX gives a blank screen. Does anyone have any verified settings for getting output to a 31KHz monitor via the analog IO?

[metalfacemark]

Are you sure its a 31khz monitor? If 68000 is working, thats a 15khz core and i cant get that one to work correctly on my VGA monitor (but ps1 works fine) and mine is 30hz

[Hodor]

Same issue over here with a 31Khz CRT monitor. PSX core doesn´t show image using forced_scandoubler=1. However, enabling the scaler and setting a fixed screen resolution works fine. It seems that the scandoubler option is ignored by the core.

[AngelicLiver]

Same issue over here wit a 31Khz CRT monitor. PSX core doesn´t show image using forced_scandoubler=1. However, enabling the scaler and setting a fixed screen resolution work fine. It seems that the scandoubler option is ignored by the core.

I was about to suggest this. Please post your MiSTer.ini if you can, you may need a custom modeline to force 480p in the scaler. PlayStation flicks between interlaced resolutions regularly so the scaler is a must.

[Hodor]

Same issue over here wit a 31Khz CRT monitor. PSX core doesn´t show image using forced_scandoubler=1. However, enabling the scaler and setting a fixed screen resolution work fine. It seems that the scandoubler option is ignored by the core.

I was about to suggest this. Please post your MiSTer.ini if you can, you may need a custom modeline to force 480p in the scaler. PlayStation flicks between interlaced resolutions regularly so the scaler is a must.

These are my PSX settings:

Code: Select all

[PSX]
forced_scandoubler=0
vga_scaler=1
video_mode=4
vscale_mode=0
vsync_adjust=2

So, are you suggesting that scandoubler doesn´t work with PSX core because of technical reasons?

[AngelicLiver]

I would assume so. PlayStation has a lot of 'high-resolution' interlaced modes it switches between regularly. If you've played Chrono Cross or Dino Crisis you'll see it first hand going in and out of the menus, for years scalers had issues with it.

[FoxbatStargazer]

Interlaced is a problem for VGA monitors, you can try Sonic 2 versus mode or SNES air strike patrol and watch the signal drop. However it seems to be worse in the PSX core as not even 240p can be doubled to 480p. Robert said something about the PSX sync being variable so that the method used for scandoubling can't be applied.

[Hodor]

Interlaced is a problem for VGA monitors, you can try Sonic 2 versus mode or SNES air strike patrol and watch the signal drop. However it seems to be worse in the PSX core as not even 240p can be doubled to 480p. Robert said something about the PSX sync being variable so that the method used for scandoubling can't be applied.

I will try both. Thanks.

[naylord]

Are you sure its a 31khz monitor? If 68000 is working, thats a 15khz core and i cant get that one to work correctly on my VGA monitor (but ps1 works fine) and mine is 30hz

Oh I should have clarified I had a custom header for that core to disable the scandoubler and just get 31khz directly from the core:
[X68000]
forced_scandoubler=0 ; set to 1 to run scandoubler on VGA output always (depends on core).
vga_scaler=0 ; set to 1 to connect VGA to scaler output.
vscale_mode=0 ; 0 - scale to fit the screen height.
direct_video=0 ; 1 - enable core video timing over HDMI, use only with VGA converters.
video_mode=1
vsync_adjust=1

anyway, about to try the psx header suggested here! thanks so much folks!

[flynnsbit]

Scandoubler isn't supported in the core. You have to use the vga scaler if you want 31 KHZ. I did a rough mapping of the resolutions for video switching, but it's probably better to just run at 960p unless you pick a game that doesn't switch modes a lot during game play. I should also go back and changes these to the more simple video_mode lines instead of the full one... but anyway, here it is. Having vga_scaler specifically called out under each resolution does seem to speed up the video switching a bit. Point is this is hacky but it works.

Code: Select all

;fall back 960p or 640p res
;video_mode=1704,96,184,280,960,1,3,30,134630 ;1704x960
;video_mode=6

[video=368x240]
vga_scaler=1
video_mode=368,8,40,48,240,1,3,14,14370

[video=529x240]
vga_scaler=1
video_mode=529,8,56,64,240,1,3,14,20310

[video=529x480]
vga_scaler=1
video_mode=529,32,56,88,480,1,3,31,43510

[video=640x478]
vga_scaler=1
video_mode=6
;video_mode=640,40,64,104,478,1,3,31,52200

[video=384x216]
vga_scaler=1
video_mode=384,24,40,64,432,1,3,28,28510

[video=256x239]
vga_scaler=1
video_mode=256,8,24,32,239,1,3,14,9870

[video=512x216]
vga_scaler=1
video_mode=512,24,56,80,432,1,3,28,37420

[video=640x240]
vga_scaler=1
video_mode=640,16,64,80,240,1,3,14,24770

[video=512x240]
vga_scaler=1
video_mode=512,16,48,64,240,1,3,14,19810

[video=256x240]
vga_scaler=1
video_mode=256,8,24,32,240,1,3,14,9910

[video=316x240]
vga_scaler=1
video_mode=320,24,49,38,200,2,2,20,13535,0,1 

[video=320x240]
vga_scaler=1
video_mode=320,8,32,40,240,1,3,14,12380
;video_mode=320,24,49,38,240,2,2,20,13535,0,1 
;video_mode=320,8,32,40,240,3,4,6,6000
;video_mode=640,4,88,60,480,1,5,19,23876,0,0 

[psx]
vga_scaler=1

[FoxbatStargazer]

vscale_mode=6 is also an interesting tool especially for CRTs. It slighly lowers the resolution itself of whatever provided video_mode to match an HV integer scale. You'll never have to deal with weird scaling or aspect ratios on a CRT so it should produce very clean results. I only hesitate with PSX because some games like to change resolution often so that could be a headache versus scaling everything to one resolution.

[Hodor]

Interlaced is a problem for VGA monitors, you can try Sonic 2 versus mode or SNES air strike patrol and watch the signal drop. However it seems to be worse in the PSX core as not even 240p can be doubled to 480p. Robert said something about the PSX sync being variable so that the method used for scandoubling can't be applied.

Sonic 2 vs mode lose the sync as soon as you select the option, indeed. Air Strike, on the contrary, runs fine on my monitor. Maybe some VGA CRTs are pickier than others.

[naylord]

does the VGA scaler option introduce scaling artifacts? The results of the ini settings I took from this topic are excellent though I noticed some odd looking text in Ridge Racer 4. I wasn't sure if that was the source or a possible scaling artifact. Obviously in other classic 240p cores this is a non-issue since we're just line doubling to get to 31Khz but I'm wondering if this scaling solution isn't quite as good as that.

[FoxbatStargazer]

If you aren't using HV integer scaling you're going to get uneven scaling of some kind. What form that takes depends on what scaling filters you've picked. That's also why I recommended trying vscale_mode=6 which changes the resolution itself to the nearest HV integer.

[metalfacemark]

Scandoubler isn't supported in the core. You have to use the vga scaler if you want 31 KHZ. I did a rough mapping of the resolutions for video switching, but it's probably better to just run at 960p unless you pick a game that doesn't switch modes a lot during game play. I should also go back and changes these to the more simple video_mode lines instead of the full one... but anyway, here it is. Having vga_scaler specifically called out under each resolution does seem to speed up the video switching a bit. Point is this is hacky but it works.

Code: Select all

;fall back 960p or 640p res
;video_mode=1704,96,184,280,960,1,3,30,134630 ;1704x960
;video_mode=6

[video=368x240]
vga_scaler=1
video_mode=368,8,40,48,240,1,3,14,14370

[video=529x240]
vga_scaler=1
video_mode=529,8,56,64,240,1,3,14,20310

[video=529x480]
vga_scaler=1
video_mode=529,32,56,88,480,1,3,31,43510

[video=640x478]
vga_scaler=1
video_mode=6
;video_mode=640,40,64,104,478,1,3,31,52200

[video=384x216]
vga_scaler=1
video_mode=384,24,40,64,432,1,3,28,28510

[video=256x239]
vga_scaler=1
video_mode=256,8,24,32,239,1,3,14,9870

[video=512x216]
vga_scaler=1
video_mode=512,24,56,80,432,1,3,28,37420

[video=640x240]
vga_scaler=1
video_mode=640,16,64,80,240,1,3,14,24770

[video=512x240]
vga_scaler=1
video_mode=512,16,48,64,240,1,3,14,19810

[video=256x240]
vga_scaler=1
video_mode=256,8,24,32,240,1,3,14,9910

[video=316x240]
vga_scaler=1
video_mode=320,24,49,38,200,2,2,20,13535,0,1 

[video=320x240]
vga_scaler=1
video_mode=320,8,32,40,240,1,3,14,12380
;video_mode=320,24,49,38,240,2,2,20,13535,0,1 
;video_mode=320,8,32,40,240,3,4,6,6000
;video_mode=640,4,88,60,480,1,5,19,23876,0,0 

[psx]
vga_scaler=1

Ive tried theses settings and i get a picture now, but its tiny in the middle of the screen, ive tried changing the aspect ratio and integer scaling ratios in the core but these just change the position of the tiny screen in the middle, any idea where im going wrong?

[NORATIO]

Hi, I am trying to use your setting, but it just won't work. I have an HDMI To VGA adapter/converter paired with a VGA CRT and all cores are working except this one. I understand that the scandoubler is not supported, but the scaler solution is just not working for me. I've tried two Mister board, two different VGA CRT and all the same result : 15.7Khz out of range. I can see you talk about 960p.. where do we set that? Maybe that's the part I am missing..

I will paste my Mister.ini settings in case someone can find anything.

Code: Select all

[MiSTer]
key_menu_as_rgui=0     ; set to 1 to make the MENU key map to RGUI in Minimig (e.g. for Right Amiga)
forced_scandoubler=1   ; set to 1 to run scandoubler on VGA output always (depends on core).
ypbpr=0                ; set to 1 for YPbPr on VGA output.
composite_sync=0       ; set to 1 for composite sync on HSync signal of VGA output.
vga_scaler=1           ; set to 1 to connect VGA to scaler output.
hdmi_audio_96k=0       ; set to 1 for 96khz/16bit HDMI audio (48khz/16bit otherwise)
keyrah_mode=0x18d80002 ; VIDPID of keyrah for special code translation (0x23418037 for Arduino Micro)
vscale_mode=1          ; 0 - scale to fit the screen height.
                       ; 1 - use integer scale only.
                       ; 2 - use 0.5 steps of scale.
                       ; 3 - use 0.25 steps of scale.
vscale_border=0        ; set vertical border for TVs cutting the upper/bottom parts of screen (1-399)
;bootscreen=0          ; uncomment to disable boot screen of some cores like Minimig. 
;mouse_throttle=10     ; 1-100 mouse speed divider. Useful for very sensitive mice
rbf_hide_datecode=0    ; 1 - hides datecodes from rbf file names. Press F2 for quick temporary toggle
menu_pal=0             ; 1 - PAL mode for menu core
hdmi_limited=2         ; 1 - use limited (16..235) color range over HDMI
                       ; 2 - use limited (16..255) color range over HDMI, for VGA converters.
direct_video=1         ; 1 - enable core video timing over HDMI, use only with VGA converters.
fb_size=0              ; 0 - automatic, 1 - full size, 2 - 1/2 of resolution, 4 - 1/4 of resolution.
fb_terminal=1          ; 1 - enabled (default), 0 - disabled
osd_timeout=30         ; 5-3600 timeout (in seconds) for OSD to disappear in Menu core. 30 seconds if not set.
                       ; Background picture will get darker after double timeout

; 1 - enables the recent file loaded/mounted.
; WARNING: This option will enable write to SD card on every load/mount which may wear the SD card after many writes to the same place
;          There is also higher chance to corrupt the File System if MiSTer will be reset or powered off while writing.
recents=0

; lastcore - Autoboot the last loaded core (corename autosaved in CONFIG/lastcore.dat) first found on the SD/USB
; lastexactcore - Autoboot the last loaded exact core (corename_yyyymmdd.rbf autosaved in CONFIG/lastcore.dat) first found on the SD/USB
; corename - Autoboot first corename_*.rbf found on the SD/USB
; corename_yyyymmdd.rbf - Autoboot first corename_yyyymmdd.rbf found on the SD/USB
;bootcore=lastcore    ; uncomment to autoboot a core, as the last loaded core.
bootcore_timeout=10  ; 10-30 timeout before autoboot, comment for autoboot without timeout.

; Option to load the custom font. Format is plain bitmap 8x8.
; Supported sizes of font:
;   768 bytes - chars 32-127 (only alpha + numeric)
;  1024 bytes - chars 0-127
;  1136 bytes - chars 0-141
;  up to 2048 - only chars 0-141 will be used.
; if first 32 chars are empty (for sizes 1024 bytes and more) then they are skipped.
font=font/myfont.pf

; USER button emulation by keybaord. Usually it's reset button.
; 0 - lctrl+lalt+ralt (lctrl+lgui+rgui on keyrah)
; 1 - lctrl+lgui+rgui
; 2 - lctrl+lalt+del
; 3 - same as 0 (lctrl+lalt+ralt on keyrah)
reset_combo=0

dvi_mode=0             ; set to 1 for DVI mode. Audio won't be transmitted through HDMI in DVI mode.

; 0 - 1280x720@60
; 1 - 1024x768@60
; 2 - 720x480@60
; 3 - 720x576@50
; 4 - 1280x1024@60
; 5 - 800x600@60
; 6 - 640x480@60
; 7 - 1280x720@50
; 8 - 1920x1080@60
; 9 - 1920x1080@50
;10 - 1366x768@60
;11 - 1024x600@60
;
; custom mode: hact,hfp,hs,hbp,vact,vfp,vs,vbp,Fpix_in_KHz
;   video_mode=1280,110,40,220,720,5,5,20,74250
;video_mode=0

; set to 1-10 (seconds) to display video info on startup/change
video_info=5

; Set to 1 for automatic HDMI VSync rate adjust to match original VSync.
; Set to 2 for low latency mode (single buffer).
; This option makes video butter smooth like on original emulated system.
; Adjusting is done by changing pixel clock. Not every display supports variable pixel clock.
; For proper adjusting and to reduce possible out of range pixel clock, use 60Hz HDMI video
; modes as a base even for 50Hz systems. 
vsync_adjust=0

; If you monitor doesn't support either very low (NTSC monitors may not support PAL) or 
; very high (PAL monitors may not support NTSC) then you can set refresh_min and/or refresh_max
; parameters, so vsync_adjust won't be applied for refreshes outside specified.
; These parameters are valid only when vsync_adjust is non-zero.
refresh_min=0
refresh_max=0

; These parameters have the same format as video_mode.
; You need to supply both PAL and NTSC modes if you want vsync_adjust to switch between
; predefined modes as a base. This will reduce the range of pixel clock.
;video_mode_ntsc=0
;video_mode_pal=7

; 1-10 (seconds) to display controller's button map upon first time key press
; 0 - disable
controller_info=6

; JammaSD keys to joysticks translation
; You have to provide correct VID and PID of your input device
;jammasd_vid=0x04D8
;jammasd_pid=0xF3AD


;fall back 960p or 640p res
;video_mode=1704,96,184,280,960,1,3,30,134630 ;1704x960
;video_mode=6

[video=368x240]
vga_scaler=1
video_mode=368,8,40,48,240,1,3,14,14370

[video=529x240]
vga_scaler=1
video_mode=529,8,56,64,240,1,3,14,20310

[video=529x480]
vga_scaler=1
video_mode=529,32,56,88,480,1,3,31,43510

[video=640x478]
vga_scaler=1
video_mode=6
;video_mode=640,40,64,104,478,1,3,31,52200

[video=384x216]
vga_scaler=1
video_mode=384,24,40,64,432,1,3,28,28510

[video=256x239]
vga_scaler=1
video_mode=256,8,24,32,239,1,3,14,9870

[video=512x216]
vga_scaler=1
video_mode=512,24,56,80,432,1,3,28,37420

[video=640x240]
vga_scaler=1
video_mode=640,16,64,80,240,1,3,14,24770

[video=512x240]
vga_scaler=1
video_mode=512,16,48,64,240,1,3,14,19810

[video=256x240]
vga_scaler=1
video_mode=256,8,24,32,240,1,3,14,9910

[video=316x240]
vga_scaler=1
video_mode=320,24,49,38,200,2,2,20,13535,0,1 

[video=320x240]
vga_scaler=1
video_mode=320,8,32,40,240,1,3,14,12380
;video_mode=320,24,49,38,240,2,2,20,13535,0,1 
;video_mode=320,8,32,40,240,3,4,6,6000
;video_mode=640,4,88,60,480,1,5,19,23876,0,0 

[psx]
vga_scaler=1

Scandoubler isn't supported in the core. You have to use the vga scaler if you want 31 KHZ. I did a rough mapping of the resolutions for video switching, but it's probably better to just run at 960p unless you pick a game that doesn't switch modes a lot during game play. I should also go back and changes these to the more simple video_mode lines instead of the full one... but anyway, here it is. Having vga_scaler specifically called out under each resolution does seem to speed up the video switching a bit. Point is this is hacky but it works.

Code: Select all

;fall back 960p or 640p res
;video_mode=1704,96,184,280,960,1,3,30,134630 ;1704x960
;video_mode=6

[video=368x240]
vga_scaler=1
video_mode=368,8,40,48,240,1,3,14,14370

[video=529x240]
vga_scaler=1
video_mode=529,8,56,64,240,1,3,14,20310

[video=529x480]
vga_scaler=1
video_mode=529,32,56,88,480,1,3,31,43510

[video=640x478]
vga_scaler=1
video_mode=6
;video_mode=640,40,64,104,478,1,3,31,52200

[video=384x216]
vga_scaler=1
video_mode=384,24,40,64,432,1,3,28,28510

[video=256x239]
vga_scaler=1
video_mode=256,8,24,32,239,1,3,14,9870

[video=512x216]
vga_scaler=1
video_mode=512,24,56,80,432,1,3,28,37420

[video=640x240]
vga_scaler=1
video_mode=640,16,64,80,240,1,3,14,24770

[video=512x240]
vga_scaler=1
video_mode=512,16,48,64,240,1,3,14,19810

[video=256x240]
vga_scaler=1
video_mode=256,8,24,32,240,1,3,14,9910

[video=316x240]
vga_scaler=1
video_mode=320,24,49,38,200,2,2,20,13535,0,1 

[video=320x240]
vga_scaler=1
video_mode=320,8,32,40,240,1,3,14,12380
;video_mode=320,24,49,38,240,2,2,20,13535,0,1 
;video_mode=320,8,32,40,240,3,4,6,6000
;video_mode=640,4,88,60,480,1,5,19,23876,0,0 

[psx]
vga_scaler=1

[FoxbatStargazer]

You're using a bunch of 240p mode lines, like this one.

Code: Select all

[video=368x240]
vga_scaler=1
video_mode=368,8,40,48,240,1,3,14,14370

This is going to output a 15khz signal when the base native resolution is 368x240

Not sure where you got these lines from but they are not appropriate for VGA monitor at all. I would delete all the [video=x] sections until you know what you want to use them for.

[NORATIO]

It was suggested to do so in another post because of every resolution that the PSX core can output. PSX games were using many resolution in the same games. CRT tubes handled it fine. But since scandoubler is not supported on the core, we need a way to double the lines for every resolution (my understanding) so any interlaced resolution (ex: 480i) are doubled and frequency of 31KHz is reached. Right now, I am stuck at 15.7Khz, no matter what I do. My PC VGA monitors just won't work because they don't support 15khz. Does this make sense. Thanks for your help. I have removed them, same result...

[FoxbatStargazer]

A lot of those lines indicated 240p output though. I dont' think they were well tested with VGA monitor. It is a route you can go down but lets just see if we can get any picture first. Try this for your PSX section.

Code: Select all

[psx]
forced_scandoubler=0
vga_scaler=1
video_mode=640,480,60,cvt
vscale_mode=1
vsync_adjust=1

[NORATIO]

Still a no go with these lines..

Still receiving a 15.7Khz - Out Of Range message from the monitor. Everything is updated to latest version if this can help. I don't know if the PSX core skip the "psx" section.

[FoxbatStargazer]

I just tested the "psx" section and it does work. However all of those [video=###x###] sections will override it and should be removed for now.

[NORATIO]

Are you sure that you are using an HDMI to VGA Converted paired with a VGA CRT monitor and not the VGA IO board? I tried everything and it doesn't output at 31khz.

[Maxriptide]

I just tested the "psx" section and it does work. However all of those [video=###x###] sections will override it and should be removed for now.

I agree with you, the opener should start from scratch with a brand new mister.ini file. I've been using an hdmi-vga adapter with a vga crt monitor for months and it works flawlessly with the psx core. I set video_mode to 1280x1024 and make sure vsync_adjust=2 to get rid of any possible lag

[NORATIO]

Alright, I got it to work and their is actually an issue in the PSX core for Direct Video. Let me explain and it's two things.

To get it to work(to output at 31KHZ, I had to disabled direct_video (=0) with a resolution higher than twice the 478i (the one that worked 1280x1024@60, no other resolution worked). This was the secret sauce right down below :

[PSX]
forced_scandoubler=0
vga_scaler=1
video_mode=4
vscale_mode=1
direct_video=0

Summary : direct_video=1 is not supported by PSX core when HDMI to VGA converter is plugged as if it's set to "1", it doesn't take the video_mode value no matter what. I have tested with two VGA monitors and both worked now! What a journey!

I hope it helps others!

[FoxbatStargazer]

Direct_video will never use the video_mode, the whole point of it is to bypass the scalar completely and display the original resolution over HDMI. Because PSX does not support scandoubler, this means direct_video will never go above 15khz and is undisplayable on a VGA monitor. Disabling direct_video enables the scaler on the HDMI port and lets you pick a resolution via video_mode.

[Maxriptide]

direct_video will never go above 15khz and is undisplayable on a VGA monitor

Exactly, direct_video is only meant to be used to hook up a 15KHz crt tv/monitor to the MiSTer through an hdmi-vga adapter

[FoxbatStargazer]

direct_video will never go above 15khz and is undisplayable on a VGA monitor

Exactly, direct_video is only meant to be used to hook up a 15KHz crt tv/monitor to the MiSTer through an hdmi-vga adapter

In the case of 31khz VGA CRT monitor, direct_video can work with most cores via the scandoubler, producing 31khz output instead of 15khz. PSX is out however because it does not support the scandoubler.