MDA Upgrade to Hercules

[jordi]

there may be software that uses both cards simultaneously, and in the absence of two monitors

This reminded me of the GB2P and GBA2P cores: https://www.retrorgb.com/2-player-gb-gb ... ister.html

These cores have a feature where the HDMI and VGA video output of the MiSTer can show different screens.
Mabye some code can be reused to make PCXT work with real dual monitor output.

Obviously this is only nice to have and maybe not worth the effort at all,
but here it is if you want to add another "wow" feature for Hercules users
https://github.com/RobertPeip/Gameboy_M ... 582106b6fd

Edit: here is a video showing a couple of apps that support it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4zugZGBPTSA
and it looks like a couple of demos at least use it, e.g.: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xsHZl8mhE6A

How cool is such demo!

[Malor]

That would be a cool feature, but probably not that useful unless the Hercules emulation becomes more complete, which looks like a serious pain in the butt. Just documenting how it even works looks like a pain, never mind implementing it.

[flynnsbit]

there may be software that uses both cards simultaneously, and in the absence of two monitors

This reminded me of the GB2P and GBA2P cores: https://www.retrorgb.com/2-player-gb-gb ... ister.html

These cores have a feature where the HDMI and VGA video output of the MiSTer can show different screens.
Mabye some code can be reused to make PCXT work with real dual monitor output.

Obviously this is only nice to have and maybe not worth the effort at all,
but here it is if you want to add another "wow" feature for Hercules users
https://github.com/RobertPeip/Gameboy_M ... 582106b6fd

Edit: here is a video showing a couple of apps that support it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4zugZGBPTSA
and it looks like a couple of demos at least use it, e.g.: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xsHZl8mhE6A

FastDoom now as well. Of course this would need AO486 to have this play like this but still cool to see.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GBY1Ti_Q4Ac

Neat seeing the map on one screen while playing doom on the other.

[suww37]

That would be a cool feature, but probably not that useful unless the Hercules emulation becomes more complete, which looks like a serious pain in the butt. Just documenting how it even works looks like a pain, never mind implementing it.

I also agree with your opinion. I think the PCXT core hercules module is still lacking a lot. We must wait for someone to find a way to support another hercules register.

[spark2k06]

Here goes my contribution to the original Graphics Gremlin project, let's see if the author of the project is encouraged to try to fix the outstanding problems

https://twitter.com/spark2k06/status/16 ... 4175260673
https://github.com/schlae/graphics-gremlin/issues/15

photo_2023-01-25_08-47-24.jpg (205.26 KiB) Viewed 9574 times

[breiztiger]

HGC seem to use same frequency as MDA (50Hz)

MNL115_ita_eng.pdf

(686.05 KiB) Downloaded 218 times

[pgimeno]

I guess my aging brain has let me down again, then. Wordperfect 5.1 used function keys very heavily, and I thought F11 was one of them, but I haven't touched it in probably thirty years.

That's my recollection as well, though I don't remember ever using it on an XT.

[kathleen]

I'm maybe wrong but to me this is true that at the beginning, the XT keyboards were having "only" 10 function keys.
I guess that the 2 additional function keys were introduced once the AT came on the market, so the extended keyboard were also used on the XT where some apps took the benefit of this, like WP5.1.

[Malor]

I'm maybe wrong but to me this is true that at the beginning, the XT keyboards were having "only" 10 function keys.
I guess that the 2 additional function keys were introduced once the AT came on the market, so the extended keyboard were also used on the XT where some apps took the benefit of this, like WP5.1.

That sounds right to me, but I was still mostly an Amiga guy during the XT to AT transition, and wasn't paying that much attention yet. I know there were physical differences between XT and AT keyboards, the signaling changed somehow, but lots of keyboards were switchable between modes, and I think there were also adapters. (Then they changed the interface again for the PS/2.)

I'm not sure if a switchable keyboard would pass F11 to an XT, though.

What I should probably do is try to scare up a WP 5.1 manual, or at least one of their "cheat bars", which were a strip of shortcut labels you put on your keyboard above the F-keys. I think either source would show if F11 was used. If I get to it today, though, it probably won't be until evening.

edit: as a bet with myself, I think F11 was a secondary shortcut for 'reveal codes' in WP5.1. It had the same thing on a different alt-function key, I believe, but then when F11 started existing, I think they duplicated it there because it was being used a lot more than they'd expected.

But: thirty years since I last used it. I could be grievously wrong.

[Malor]

Ok, I tracked down the WordPerfect info. Yes, F11 was Reveal Codes. F12 was used for block selection. However, these were secondary keys; you could also use alt-F3 and alt-F4, respectively. F11 and F12 were clearly added later, because that one function each is all they do. The other function keys are all overloaded with normal key, control key, alt key, and shift key, for a total of 40 functions.

I still don't know, however, if XTs could use F11, even with an aftermarket keyboard.

[jca]

The IBM 5160 V3 supports the enhanced keyboard. F11 and F12 works with WP 5.1 under PCXT.

[spark2k06]

After reading all the comments about the real use of F11 and F12 on XT machines and software designed for it, it is clearer to me that it is clearly not essential

[Malor]

I think you're drawing the exact wrong conclusion there, spark2k06. It wasn't essential on Wordperfect, but F11 was something that almost every user would bang on constantly. And, per jca, real XTs could read the code, so IMO you should be moving both F11 and F12 to Windows-F11 and F12, like the AO486 core does.

Intercepting those keystrokes was not something that real XTs did.

[spark2k06]

I think you're drawing the exact wrong conclusion there, spark2k06. It wasn't essential on Wordperfect, but F11 was something that almost every user would bang on constantly. And, per jca, real XTs could read the code, so IMO you should be moving both F11 and F12 to Windows-F11 and F12, like the AO486 core does.

Intercepting those keystrokes was not something that real XTs did.

Apart from this discussion, I don't see any related complaint from any user that they can't use this or that software because they can't press F11/F12, so, usable or not, what is clear is that it is certainly not very useful.

Edit:

By the way, the hook of the F11 and F12 keys is carried out at core level to access the functions described, in no case do I pass the scancodes to the system, so nothing else will happen other than what is stated.

[held]

I am pleased to show you the first tests on the upgrade of the MDA module from Graphics Gremlin to Hercules:

There are still some screen adjustments to be made so it doesn't look scrolled to the left, and support for the two Hercules memory pages, but I've attached a first binary for you to try out.

Apart from the cough- substandard crack in the video -cough, this is better than sliced bread
(I only use TDC or Exodus since they are actively maintained.)

[breiztiger]

https://github.com/wbhart/crtc

perhaps some interresting infos

[Malor]

I went and looked, and he doesn't even say what that does. There is literally not one word of documentation on what the "crtc" project is for, and "crtc", by itself, doesn't carry any useful information.

Maybe there's something in the sources, but a basic explanation of what it's about would seem in order before trying to dig through all those files.

[breiztiger]

Look at the file crtc.pdf

[suww37]

You said that in the case of “Monkey1” or “prince of persia“, the hercules screen is output to normal. But if you also check these 2 games in detail, you’ll notice that the screen is not in the center and has moved slightly to the left. So it looks like you‘re going to need a screen adjustment for the Hercules graphics module, not a problem with a standard register or a non-standard register. Is it possible to solve this?

[spark2k06]

You said that in the case of “Monkey1” or “prince of persia“, the hercules screen is output to normal. But if you also check these 2 games in detail, you’ll notice that the screen is not in the center and has moved slightly to the left. So it looks like you‘re going to need a screen adjustment for the Hercules graphics module, not a problem with a standard register or a non-standard register. Is it possible to solve this?

Maybe one day I will take it up again, but it obviously needs a revision. Again, even so, this is already more than just an MDA. So that all these inconveniences are not forgotten between posts, I suggest you open issues in the GitHub repository. I hope that someone other than myself, who is skilled enough and interested enough, can contribute to the improvements.

[Newsdee]

Every little step helps! It's great we have basic Hercules support even if there's still some issues to iron out

[held]

You said that in the case of “Monkey1” or “prince of persia“, the hercules screen is output to normal. But if you also check these 2 games in detail, you’ll notice that the screen is not in the center and has moved slightly to the left. So it looks like you‘re going to need a screen adjustment for the Hercules graphics module, not a problem with a standard register or a non-standard register. Is it possible to solve this?

I going from memory here, but I had those same problems in the late 80's begin 90's. Although we had all kinds of issues on Hercules, you accepted that as being normal. So this could be in play too.

Crazy times

[Newsdee]

Around 89-90, I was friend of two brothers across the street, and I'd hang out at their house to play together Lucasart and Sierra adventures on their PC on Hercules (it was probably an AT). Such good times. I wonder if either of them turned out as geeky as I am for older games