Starting Out With MiSTer From an Old School Collection

[Max-fpga]

Hi guys, can you help an old boy get up to date?

I started gaming in the late 70's and used/collected most of the main consoles from the late 80's up to DC so circa 2000. Time marches on and hard as it is I've decided now is the time to sell up and go fpga. I've 11 pages of SFC/PCE/MD/N64/Saturn/PS/GB/NG MVS/DC hardware/games to shift somehow...

I understand N64 and DC will not be possible on fpga as it is now - is that 100% certain?

I've watched/read a week of MiSTer stuff and AFAIK I need the following (priced from misterfpga.co.uk) and hopefully with the help of my son be able to sort out the set-up and configuration.

Am I missing anything?

DE-10 (Mouser UK) - £205
MiSTer Analog IO Board v6.1(Noctua fan) - £57
USB Hub v2.1 - £32
MiSTer SDRAM XS-DS v2.9 128MB Module - £50
SanDisk Ultra 128 GB micro SDXC Memory Card - £12
MiSTer Heatsink DE10 Nano Cooling - £3
MiSTer FPGA Power Supply 5 Volt 4 Amps - £23
MiSTer Case Acrylic - £23

A few questions:

1). I want to keep using the original controllers wherever possible (at least SFC, PCE, Neo Geo, PS) - do I need 1 x SNAC main adapter and then a second SNAC adapter for each controller - it all looks a bit unwieldy ie long??

2). Once a controller is set up is it then remembered for every core and game? Can I configure say a Neo Geo stick or a PS analogue controller to use with every core/game regardless?

3). If I set up the mister with ethernet what is the easiest way to get new ROM's onto the SD card without removing it?

4). Any recommendations for a 4:3 decent quality LCD display to look out for and what inputs are best used - I've always been an import gamer so 60hz full screen etc on my CRT's.

5). Lightgun games - I've still got all the original lightguns (Sega, Namco for PS, Konami for SFC etc) - guessing these are useless unless I set up a separate CRT display - or look at flogging the lot and getting a Sinden type gun for the LCD?

I had better limit it to 5 questions to start, sure I'll have more - thanks guys.

[AngelicLiver]

N64 and Dreamcast are not possible. You will find plenty of technical background on this forum as to the reasons but the TLDR; N64 needs significantly more memory bandwidth and tighter timings than the DE10-Nano can offer. Dreamcast just isn't feasible on this FPGA.

Mouser have no stock of the DE10-Nano for the foreseeable future, they are on significant back-order. You would need to order one directly from Terasic. Expect to pay around £270 with tax and duty. Alternatively you'll need to buy from a MiSTer reseller as part of a kit.

Of what you listed SDRAM I would say is completely necessary. The rest really depends on your use case.

1. With regular SNAC you can only use one original controller. With SNAX you can use two. However both only allow you to use original hardware controllers with their respective cores and you cannot navigate the OSD (change games/settings/cores etc.). I would only go with SNAC/SNAX if you would like to use lightguns on CRTs or niche native controllers. If you just want to use original pads with low input-lag, take a look at alternatives like USB Daemonbite adapters.

2. SNAC/SNAX controllers behave just as if they were on native hardware, you can't remap controls and they only work on their respective cores.

3. SFTP (over the network). However it is far more convenient to store your games on a separate USB storage device or if it's permanently on a network, use a network share (NAS/RetroNAS).

4. The Dell Ultrasharp 2007FPB can be found cheap on Ebay and can be connected with HDMI --> DVI. You'll need to extract the audio separately.

5. GunCon 1 & 2 requires a CRT. Guncon 1 you'll need to use SNAC/SNAX. GunCon 2 uses USB so SNAC is not required (but you'll need to extract composite-sync). Guncon 3 works great on flat panel displays but require IR emitters. Sinden Lightgun currently does not work on MiSTer natively and even if it eventually does, will need to offload the image processing it needs to do to another device (it's a bit of a faff).

I expect you will have a LOT of questions, MiSTer is a pretty deep rabbit hole. I wholeheartedly suggest you read the wiki and watch some YouTube deepdives.

[Missus]

Welcome!

Before you decide on parts for the 'stack', check out the MiSTer multisystem board, especially since you don't have any hardware yet. It combines and 'consolizes' the mister and various addon boards. Has everything you could need to get started, all you need to add is the de-10 nano.

Here is the manual: https://www.retrocollective.co.uk/asset ... 2_V__1.pdf

[Max-fpga]

Thanks guys, yes - watched about two weeks of MiSTer YT videos, read all the Wiki and more but you know how it is - until you get 'hands on' a lot of it doesn't sink in.

I've been a RMC subscriber for a long time and applaud what they are doing but I really like the more common stack form factor and adaptability.

Mouser UK yesterday told me the March landing of DE-10 is still expected...

I think I understand now on the controllers - so SNAC only allows the original controller to work with the original console core and with no re-mapping of buttons possible? And the aftermarket modern USB repro controllers eg https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B07XWL1573/ can be used with any console core and all buttons remapped? And allow same time use of OSD? If I use one of these can that then be configured separately for each core and are the settings always remembered?

Do the Daemon eg https://ultimatemister.com/product/ulti ... -geo-db15/ adapters work differently then? - could I buy the Neo Geo one and that would then allow the original NG stick to be mapped and assigned to any core as with the Saturn USB above?

Either way to play with original SFC/PCE/NG/PS etc controllers it's going to get expensive with so many adapters.

Those Dell monitors seem to have come up recommended in other places too - I really want a minimum 24" to 30" though - for aging eyesight and room set up needs. Is there a particular model number or screen manufacturer to look out for in those or any modern/current other alternatives still in 4/3?

The lightgun thing is a PITA - years ago I picked up for £50 a mint 32" Sony flat screen last of line CRT that probably cost about £2000 BITD - had to move and I could not give it away. Weighed the same as a washing machine though...

So if I find a used Guncon 3 that will work with any flat screen TV/monitor? And any core's lightgun games? Were they originally sold with sensors or whatever else is needed?

[AngelicLiver]

Fingers crossed on Mouser.

Yep, if you're using a USB adapter or repro style controller you can use them in the OSD and interchangeably between cores. That Saturn pad can be used for Neo Geo or Mega Drive for example.

Daemonbite is a USB adapter, that one you linked would work fine. SNAC connects to the user port, although that looks like a USB-A port it is not compatible with USB devices, electrically it is serial IO for devices to communicate directly to the FPGA.

Daemonbite is quite flexible and cheap, plus you can DIY them. You'll need ports for all your controllers yes but some of the designs have multiple ports on one PCB. The one I DIY'd a while back has SNES, NES and DE9 (Mega Drive, Atari etc.) on the one adapter.

Unfortunately nobody really makes 4:3 displays anymore. With how cheap and ubiquitous flat panel TVs are now it's just easier to buy to buy a 16:9 set and deal with the black bars.

Guncon 3 regularly come up cheap on eBay and the like but people always seem to lose the IR emitters they came with. Complete units with emitters trend to be expensive. However, you can DIY your own emitters and some vendors like MiSTer Addons have started selling aftermarket IR emitter replacements.

[Max-fpga]

Daemonbite is quite flexible and cheap, plus you can DIY them. You'll need ports for all your controllers yes but some of the designs have multiple ports on one PCB. The one I DIY'd a while back has SNES, NES and DE9 (Mega Drive, Atari etc.) on the one adapter.

That's interesting - I'm happy to mod hardware, just the file/software side I struggle a bit... I've done RGB, MVS, Jamma conversions, making joysticks, fitting mod chips etc since BITD so guessing if I just buy the simple Daemonbrite Neo Geo adapter https://ultimatemister.com/product/ulti ... on-neogeo/ I could make up some simple adapters with NG DB15 extension leads - got about 4 spare - and then just re-pin these directly to spare original SFC/PCE/Saturn controllers at least and to a generic arcade 6 button joystick too? And all these units would then effectively be USB and work with any core, the OSD and any re-mapping?

[AngelicLiver]

That's great! Daemonbite along with most things MiSTer is open-source.

You can make your own adapters and all the info to do it can be found on MickGyver's GitHub repo. I have spare PCBs of this board spare, as you're in the UK feel free to DM me and I'd be happy to pop one in the post for you.

[Max-fpga]

Thanks so much for the advice and kind offer.

[ToothbrushThreepwood]

You may also need a Y-splitter to power the USB-hub directly from the PSU: https://misterfpga.co.uk/product/mister ... ter-cable/

(while USB hubs can be powered from the de10, some/most boards cannot support more than a few devices this way)

Other than that, I don’t have much to add - you have a lot to look forward to! The only feature missing on MiSTer vs original hardware is support for dual mouse inputs, that’s how good this thing is.

[Max-fpga]

Thanks TT - yes, I think the power splitter comes with the USB board from misterfpga?

Coming back on the controller subject, I was watching this super helpful YT video from the brilliant Esoterica:

That seems super simple with just one of those boards at £7 odd each for each controller and a few jumpers to a D plug. Is it really that simple? Anyone used these or have any tips?

Have I got the right one here?

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/155370643681

[Missus]

Thanks TT - yes, I think the power splitter comes with the USB board from misterfpga?

Coming back on the controller subject, I was watching this super helpful YT video from the brilliant Esoterica:

That seems super simple with just one of those boards at £7 odd each for each controller and a few jumpers to a D plug. Is it really that simple? Anyone used these or have any tips?

Have I got the right one here?

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/155370643681

Yep those boards will work. I went with the usb-c version.

I also opted for a parts kit from here for the Triple Controller design: https://www.tindie.com/products/timvill ... dapter-v2/

Super easy to build and they work great.

There is also the gp2040 project that uses a raspberry pi pico board meant for custom arcade sticks. You can see more detail on it here: https://gp2040.info

[Max-fpga]

Thanks - I'll need to make 6 I think?! Arcade (6 button fighter), Neo Geo, SFC, PCE, Saturn/MD, PSX.

I've never hacked an analogue pad (PSX above) - how does this work with an arduino adapter? With a normal joystick or pad you have a simple U/D/L/R microswitch or contact for the D pad or stick of course.

[Druid_]

I scored a de-10 nano from arrow.com about 2 month ago. I was actually in the process of filling in a back order form for them as they had the best price when you add in shipping and right before I submitted 2 popped up in stock on the site. If you've got time maybe try stalking out arrow to see if one pops up in stock again.

[Max-fpga]

Am I right in thinking there is no Daemonbite for PlayStation? So, it has to be SNAX?

[AngelicLiver]

Not officially. But you have been able to buy cheap USB adapters for PlayStation for many years. Something like this should work fine.

[Max-fpga]

Thanks for continuing to help. Ah, I’m so out of touch. That’s literally all I need then and I can use with any core and remap buttons? Low lag too?

[jd213]

You might want to go with something like the Raphnet PS adapter:
https://www.raphnet-tech.com/products/p ... /index.php
Don't see that particular adapter on the MiSTer Controller Latency page, but Raphnet adapters are generally low lag, wheras generic adapters can have higher lag:
https://rpubs.com/misteraddons/inputlatency

[AngelicLiver]

Thanks for continuing to help. Ah, I’m so out of touch. That’s literally all I need then and I can use with any core and remap buttons? Low lag too?

I can't vouch for their input lag sadly but yes they should work across cores. As jd213 mentioned those Raphnet adapters are highly regarded; almost always out-of-stock when I'm trying to find them mind you!