ao486 Cache 29 mid 90's game performance

[luishg]

MiSTer c200730
AO486 c200739 Cache 29
Compilation and bios by bbond007 viewtopic.php?p=5058#p5058
Dos 6.22 (ES) for the first batch of games.
DOS memory configuration EMM386.EXE RAM 32768 FRAME=E000 D=256 X=A000-C7FF I=C800-EFFF
Microsoft Windows 95 OSR 2.5 (Released C)

Full video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HavN0dsjkw4

Table of content

Heroes of Might and Magic II (SVGA) https://youtu.be/HavN0dsjkw4?t=44
Simcity 2000 https://youtu.be/HavN0dsjkw4?t=240
Cannon Fodder https://youtu.be/HavN0dsjkw4?t=379
X-WING https://youtu.be/HavN0dsjkw4?t=695
DOOM https://youtu.be/HavN0dsjkw4?t=951
Dark Forces https://youtu.be/HavN0dsjkw4?t=1124
Abuse https://youtu.be/HavN0dsjkw4?t=1354
Hexxen https://youtu.be/HavN0dsjkw4?t=1617
System Shock https://youtu.be/HavN0dsjkw4?t=1726
Windows 95 (800x600) https://youtu.be/HavN0dsjkw4?t=1882
Mortal Kombat 2 https://youtu.be/HavN0dsjkw4?t=2229

Really impressive the performance of the core, all the working games run at full speed and with sound with no problem. There are still some compatibility issues, for some reason this time I was not able to boot games like Mortal Kombat 2 or Warcraft 2 under DOS 6.22 (that previously I was able).

Windows 95 works really well with the default windows ET4000 driver.


We are really close to getting a fully working DOS 486/Pentium machine on modern hardware. AWESOME, and thank you Sorleig, FPGAzumSpass and the rest of the team working on this so hard.

[Caldor]

This morning I installed the Diablo and Starcraft demo on Windows 95 and they run very well on it. So, if I get CD drive emulation working in Windows, there should be a chance that the full versions would run well, as well. Otherwise, a no-CD patch should help.

I also found that Warcraft II seems to refuse to run under DOS, but runs at full speed in Windows.

[flynnsbit]

Caldor, Virtual CD 5 works for iso mounting and emulation. That's how I played Diablo. Here is me running through the setup. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dRBpUjIyYsA

[Chris23235]

Daemon Tools runs also fine up to version 3.4.7

[ToothbrushThreepwood]

Can any of you guys try Dungeon Keeper 1? That used to run - slowly and just barely - on my 486DX2-66 back in the day. And smooth after upgrading to 133mhz 586 or P90 CPU. Just to gauge the performance of the core... and for nostalgia

[Caldor]

Yeah, I never got to the installation part because Windows says it requires some USB stuff to be able to install it, and then that USB stuff requires scandisk to run without any errors, or fixing the ones it finds. I might have found a way around that though. Or... through it I guess. By actually fixing those errors.

But that sounds great.... I got a lot of stuff to test then

[Caldor]

Can any of you guys try Dungeon Keeper 1? That used to run - slowly and just barely - on my 486DX2-66 back in the day. Just to gauge the performance of the core... and for nostalgia

I am somewhat certain it requires FPU. DX CPUs had FPU. Its a bit annoying how many games show the 486DX2-66mhz as the minimum requirement, because its hard to know if its due to its FPU that it is the minimum requirements.

[ToothbrushThreepwood]

Can any of you guys try Dungeon Keeper 1? That used to run - slowly and just barely - on my 486DX2-66 back in the day. Just to gauge the performance of the core... and for nostalgia

I am somewhat certain it requires FPU. DX CPUs had FPU. Its a bit annoying how many games show the 486DX2-66mhz as the minimum requirement, because its hard to know if its due to its FPU that it is the minimum requirements.

Ah, of course. The rendering probably requires FPU yeah.

[Caldor]

Also, while we can play Starcraft and Diablo, they do stutter a bit. Its not at 100% speed. Maybe 95% or something like that. I am about to make a video now.

[Cebion]

@luishg what do you use for recording?

[Chris23235]

Yeah, I never got to the installation part because Windows says it requires some USB stuff to be able to install it, and then that USB stuff requires scandisk to run without any errors, or fixing the ones it finds. I might have found a way around that though. Or... through it I guess. By actually fixing those errors.

But that sounds great.... I got a lot of stuff to test then

In order to get Daemon Tools running, you need the USB supplements

https://msfn.org/board/topic/177518-xus ... s-95-osr2/

and the Windows Installer 2.0

https://winworldpc.com/download/4740c39 ... a6c2bb2a52

Here is the link to Daemon Tools 3.47

http://www.oldversion.com.de/windows/daemon-tools-3-47

[Caldor]

Yeah... and Internet Explorer 4. I have been working on getting it all, but a few cores ago, it all ran pretty slow and unstable. Running scandisk took forever and then it failed. Now it all runs great... so just need to install all the needed software.

Not sure about Windows Installer 2.0. Might not have that yet. I already did it all in Windows 98 on the Raspberry Pi 4. Hmmm, and with PCem. But its much easier with Win98SE, as it has pretty much all the stuff needed to install Daemon Tools and Alcohol 120%... which gets me thinking that I should probably try to see how Win98SE runs now.

Its amazing how good cache29 seems to be. Duke Nukem 3D now runs at 20fps for me, and it seems to be without problem that I can run Starcraft and Diablo, install updates, run scandisk and more.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b7T1Ump ... e=youtu.be

[Schyz]

Can any of you guys try Dungeon Keeper 1? That used to run - slowly and just barely - on my 486DX2-66 back in the day. And smooth after upgrading to 133mhz 586 or P90 CPU. Just to gauge the performance of the core... and for nostalgia

I've tested it last night with Cache 29@100MHz, I don't think it's playable, not even in 2D mode (low res of course). I'd say it feels sub-10 fps.

I'll try later with Cache 31 and update this post.

[ToothbrushThreepwood]

Can any of you guys try Dungeon Keeper 1? That used to run - slowly and just barely - on my 486DX2-66 back in the day. And smooth after upgrading to 133mhz 586 or P90 CPU. Just to gauge the performance of the core... and for nostalgia

I've tested it last night with Cache 29@100MHz, I don't think it's playable, not even in 2D mode (low res of course). I'd say it feels sub-10 fps.

I'll try later with Cache 31 and update this post.

Thank you!
I’m very impressed that the core even managed anything above 1-2 fps. The minimum cpu specs are 486DX4-100 as I recall.
It sounds like the core is performing very similar to the 486DX2-66 in my childhood. That was definitely sub-10 fps on the lowest of low settings - but very good for teaching patience

[Schyz]

I’m very impressed that the core even managed anything above 1-2 fps. The minimum cpu specs are 486DX4-100 as I recall.
It sounds like the core is performing very similar to the 486DX2-66 in my childhood. That was definitely sub-10 fps on the lowest of low settings - but very good for teaching patience

Maybe this game needs a math co-processor, maybe the graphics are too intensive. I was impressed as well that it can "run" this game. I have little time to test and development is faster than I can keep up, especially with the extra work needed to get CD games to work, so I'm going for edge cases like this, it gives a good picture of the status of the core: if it can move Dungeon Keeper it can probably move a lot of things based on Bullfrog's engine, like Magic Carpet 1 & 2, Hi-Octane or Syndicate Wars.

Another thing I've tested, that I haven't seen anybody else testing, is Fallout 1, the DOS version is too slow but the Windows 95 version with DirectX 3.0 is "playable". I'm curious about other Black Isle RPGs, being turn-based it's a genre that doesn't suffer that much with low framerates.

[Chris23235]

I just tried the Win95 version of X-Wing, it was unplayable, but then this game had a Pentium in the system requirement, if I recall correct.

[Schyz]

I just tried the Win95 version of X-Wing, it was unplayable, but then this game had a Pentium in the system requirement, if I recall correct.

That one uses the X-Wing vs Tie Fighter engine, with better graphics. I think it even supported 3D-accelerators.

[wark91]

@flynnsbit, How did you manage to get sound on Diablo ?

[Caldor]

@flynnsbit, How did you manage to get sound on Diablo ?

Worked for me. Was the Diablo demo, but should be the same:
https://youtu.be/b7T1UmpFHbM?t=180

[luishg]

@luishg what do you use for recording?

Cebion,

I'm using this little capture card, you need a host computer to record the video:

https://www.avermedia.com/en/product-detail/GL310

[rhester72]

Anyone actually _used_ Daemon Tools on this?

Got OSR2 installed clean, installed the USB update with no issues, then Installer 2.0 with no issues, then Daemon Tools with no issues.

ISO mounts fine, shows up as a drive letter, but when I open it in Explorer, after it counts the objects and paints the icons, Explorer locks up and eventually the input buffer fills and just starts beeping.

[flynnsbit]

Daemon tools just wasn't stable for me, I might have been using the wrong version or something. I've had good success with Virtual CD 5.

[Chris23235]

Daemon Tools works for me in OSR2, which version do you use? I use 3.47.

[Caldor]

Daemon Tools works for me in OSR2, which version do you use? I use 3.47.

I managed to install Daemon Tools in OSR2, but then I tried in Windows 98SE and it failed to install, so I went back to OSR2 and it now has an error when it boots. I fear the two installations might have some problem now with files having been corrupted.

So I am going to try to install just install Windows 98SE again and see if maybe a cleaner installation that hopefully wont have bluescreens, freezes and crashes during installation will make it all better. I am also going to focus on getting it install on a 500mb VHD. Its pretty easy to move it to a larger disk if needed, but its just much easier to make backups and such with a small disk, and also it will be faster to run scandisk on it.

[Chris23235]

After I had Win95 up and running, I backed this vhd up on my main computer, just because of this. Win95 had the tendency to corrupt itself up to a state where it wouldn't boot any more.

[rhester72]

Daemon Tools works for me in OSR2, which version do you use? I use 3.47.

Same. 100% clean OSR2 install with USB, Installer 2.0 and DT 3.47 installed on top - no reason I can think of why it isn't reliable, but it definitely isn't.

[Chris23235]

That's strange, what kind of image do you try to mount, I only mounted cue/bin and cue/iso images yet.

[rhester72]

That's strange, what kind of image do you try to mount, I only mounted cue/bin and cue/iso images yet.

Standard ISO, no cue. It mounts fine, but when you try to navigate it the entire core locks up...input buffer eventually fills up and you get constant beeping.

[Caldor]

Seems its more than this. I have reinstalled Windows 98SE two times more and it still refuses to install Daemon Tools. So now I decided to install Windows 98SE on a PCem system, and using the exact same version of Windows 98SE, the installer and the Daemon Tools installation, it all went without a problem.

Not sure what is causing this. I got it working in OSR2, but I am just not sure what core and such I was using when I managed to get it working. now I have tried just installing it all in PCem and now I will try using that Windows on AO486.

When I boot my OSR2 image, it throws an error first thing after booting.

[rhester72]

Same. 100% clean OSR2 install with USB, Installer 2.0 and DT 3.47 installed on top - no reason I can think of why it isn't reliable, but it definitely isn't.

Rebuilt MiSTer and the ao486 core just now, and Daemon Tools (on the exact same image) works perfectly. Clearly things are still in flux.