Direct Video HDMI to Component CRT 480i TV

[marcelosofth]

Ok, finally have an update. It took a while to get to me from New Zealand as it couldn't be shipped due to Covid-19 restrictions for a couple weeks. It came a couple days ago and I had some time to play around with it. So my signal path is Hdmi to VGA DAC (already had one for using on a CRT monitor) VGA cable to the Transcoder, and RCA "component" cables into a 27" CRT TV. I'm using Audio from the VGA DAC via 3.5mm to rca cable into the TV. The good news is it works pretty much flawlessly. I pretty much use console cores only, So I haven't tested the PC cores, but everything seems to be working great. Direct Video is enabled, Composite sync needs to be off or you get a slow rolling picture, and ypbpr needs to be off as the device already trancodes the color space. The signal quality looks fantastic, and lag "feels" nonexistent, so I'm happy with this setup.

Could you show a picture of your "Hdmi to VGA DAC" and "Transcoder"?

[scylark]

Could you show a picture of your "Hdmi to VGA DAC" and "Transcoder"?

Sure, this is the Transcoder I am using.

RGB (VGA) to YPbPr transcoder

20220210_181353.jpg (2.11 MiB) Viewed 8854 times

Front with USB (type c) 5v input and rgbhv or rgbs through VGA.

20220210_181334.jpg (3.34 MiB) Viewed 8854 times

In my earlier post I left a link to the ebay page, although it looks like it's currently not available anymore.

My HDMI to VGA DAC is this cheapo gtmedia from Amazon (Edit: Link Expired, and no longer available) Although I am looking for one that's a little better quality. It works fine, but the flimsy plastic construction leaves much to be desired.

[caad]

They all look like that (the AG6200 ones that work). So I wouldn't hope for anything less flimsy.

[marcelosofth]

Could you show a picture of your "Hdmi to VGA DAC" and "Transcoder"?

Sure, this is the Transcoder I am using. 20220210_181353.jpg 20220210_181334.jpg In my earlier post I left a link to the ebay page, although it looks like it's currently not available anymore.

My HDMI to VGA DAC is this cheapo gtmedia from Amazon. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B087X6168S Although I am looking for one that's a little better quality. It works fine, but the flimsy plastic construction leaves much to be desired.

The solution is here: Setup for YPbPr signals!

YPbPr - also known as Component Video - is available in Direct Video mode but has limited compatibility. This is due to limitations of HDMI-to-VGA DACs, which were not meant to produce signals in the YPbPr color space in the first place, resulting in signals that are slightly out-of-spec. It is possible that your display will accept the Direct Video YPbPr signal with no issue, but it may also appear bright pink due to the way many displays process such signals. For higher YPbPr compatibility you may prefer RGB mode with an external RGB-to-YPbPr transcoder instead, or YPbPr via the IO Board.

To use YPbPr in Direct Video mode, you'll need to enable composite_sync and ypbpr in your mister.ini file.

You'll also need to add a sync-on-green circuit on your VGA connection. Sync-on-green circuits can be very simple; you just need a diode (1N4148) and a 1k resistor.

Connection: from HSync -> anode of diode, cathode of diode -> resistor, resistor to Green signal.

https://github.com/MiSTer-devel/Main_Mi ... pr-signals

[scylark]

The solution is here: Setup for YPbPr signals!

YPbPr - also known as Component Video - is available in Direct Video mode but has limited compatibility. This is due to limitations of HDMI-to-VGA DACs, which were not meant to produce signals in the YPbPr color space in the first place, resulting in signals that are slightly out-of-spec. It is possible that your display will accept the Direct Video YPbPr signal with no issue, but it may also appear bright pink due to the way many displays process such signals. For higher YPbPr compatibility you may prefer RGB mode with an external RGB-to-YPbPr transcoder instead, or YPbPr via the IO Board.

To use YPbPr in Direct Video mode, you'll need to enable composite_sync and ypbpr in your mister.ini file.

You'll also need to add a sync-on-green circuit on your VGA connection. Sync-on-green circuits can be very simple; you just need a diode (1N4148) and a 1k resistor.

Connection: from HSync -> anode of diode, cathode of diode -> resistor, resistor to Green signal.

https://github.com/MiSTer-devel/Main_Mi ... pr-signals

Thanks, but this setup has already been working perfectly for me. You don't have to turn YPbPr on using this. This transcoder accepts both RGBS and RGBHV, so from the mister side, all you have to do is use the correct settings to output an RGB signal. This device deals with the YPbPr conversion, and doesn't have as "limited compatibility" as the Mister itself does. This is basically the same type of device as the RGB2Comp, but since it uses a VGA connector to carry the signal, you can go straight from a VGA DAC to this device which keeps the setup a little less convoluted.

They all look like that (the AG6200 ones that work). So I wouldn't hope for anything less flimsy.

The Portta Dac is reported to work and looks like it has a little better build quality. But it does also require it's own power supply. I'll probably use the gtmedia for now and replace it if it ever breaks on me.

[caad]

This one? https://www.amazon.com/dp/B003O55U8K

[marcelosofth]

This one? https://www.amazon.com/dp/B003O55U8K

The bad thing about these converters is that they don't do 240p on the crt tv, only 480i.

[scylark]

This one? https://www.amazon.com/dp/B003O55U8K

Yes, that's the one. Also, someone mentioned the UGREEN adapter has a better build quality on the Atari forums.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00NBUTHJG/

[Lactose]

Could you show a picture of your "Hdmi to VGA DAC" and "Transcoder"?

Sure, this is the Transcoder I am using. 20220210_181353.jpg 20220210_181334.jpg In my earlier post I left a link to the ebay page, although it looks like it's currently not available anymore.

My HDMI to VGA DAC is this cheapo gtmedia from Amazon. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B087X6168S Although I am looking for one that's a little better quality. It works fine, but the flimsy plastic construction leaves much to be desired.

Could you post your .ini file? For whatever reason, I can't get a stable picture with it.

I have the same Transcoder, I was using it for crt_emudriver on my pc to connect my crt tv. It works fine for that.

[scylark]

Could you post your .ini file? For whatever reason, I can't get a stable picture with it.

I have the same Transcoder, I was using it for crt_emudriver on my pc to connect my crt tv. It works fine for that.

Yea, I can do that, just give me a couple days. I am currently in the process of getting rid of my old crt tv and getting a new one, so my two ini's are set up for my 2 monitors currently.

What kind of picture issues are you having exactly, and what are your settings? Also, what HDMI to VGA adapter are you using?

[marcelosofth]

I couldn't make 240p using the HDMI to VGA converter, only 480i, the colors are vivid and the image has quality, but since it's not 240p it has grains in dark parts of the image.

[Lactose]

What kind of picture issues are you having exactly, and what are your settings? Also, what HDMI to VGA adapter are you using?

I'm having sync issues. I have 3 different adapters and they all can't sync correctly. One of them has the ag6200 chip. I will having rolling pictures or squiggly lines no matter what resolutions I'm using. Pretty much, like 1 in 50 times, it will sync up and then I can use the tv.

If it syncs up, then I can use it. If I turn everything off, it will work until the resolution changes.

I used crt_emudriver on my computer and can get a perfect signal with the transcoder. If I use the exact same video mode with the mister, it doesn't work.

I also have a HDMI to component adapter and that also has the same issues but that worked better more often.

I've used 2560 x 224 , 640 x 224 , 640 x 240, 512 x 224.

I have tried it with composite sync on and off, limited colors, pretty much makes no difference.

I have 2 sony trinitrons and a jvc d-series and they all experience the issues. So I don't think it is a tv thing.

[scylark]

I'm having sync issues. I have 3 different adapters and they all can't sync correctly. One of them has the ag6200 chip. I will having rolling pictures or squiggly lines no matter what resolutions I'm using. Pretty much, like 1 in 50 times, it will sync up and then I can use the tv.

If it syncs up, then I can use it. If I turn everything off, it will work until the resolution changes.

I used crt_emudriver on my computer and can get a perfect signal with the transcoder. If I use the exact same video mode with the mister, it doesn't work.

I also have a HDMI to component adapter and that also has the same issues but that worked better more often.

I've used 2560 x 224 , 640 x 224 , 640 x 240, 512 x 224.

I have tried it with composite sync on and off, limited colors, pretty much makes no difference.

I have 2 sony trinitrons and a jvc d-series and they all experience the issues. So I don't think it is a tv thing.

Hmmm, could be a few different things. First of all make sure Direct Video is on of course. Then, what is your vsync adj setting set to? Try and set it to =2 if it is not already. (You may need to change this for a few select cores, but it should work the best for the majority of them.) Next, try composite sync off as It gives me a rolling picture with this transcoder. (which is the opposite you think it should be) Next, make sure YPbPr is off too. Also, I was using video_mode_pal=none and video_mode_ntsc=none. Try these settings out first and we can go from there.


The HDMI limited setting is not important for any sync issues, just some color/contrast issues. Set it to 2 for the ag6200 chip if you have contrast issues.

Edit: Oh, and what are you using to provide power to the transcoder?

[Lactose]

The pal and ntsc video modes seems to have been the main problem.

I still have problems with switching resolutions, half the time it doesn't work. My hdmi2component still works much better.

The transcoder still has issues with rolling or like misaligned screens. I ordered an Ugreen vga adapter, lets see if that is the issue.

as for the power, I just have a wall adapter to usb-c. I doubt that is the issue because the transcoder works fine with my pc.

[Lactose]

Little update. I accidentally enabled ypbpr and it works perfectly over the transcoder but obviously it makes everything green. If I use the same settings but turn off ypbpr and have composite_sync on or off, it doesn't work. I don't know how that works unless my hdmi to vga adapters don't handle composite sync from the mister very well.

I have checked and 2 of them have the ag6200 chip, so they should work.


edit: Tried this with another tv and it showed pictures with composite_sync on and off and they both had scrolling and warping screens. I tried all my adapters and they had the same issues. This tv seems to have a wider tolerance for sync so it at least shows something. Guess I just need to find the right adapter.

[scylark]

I decided to order the Ugreen adapter myself (although I ended up getting the female HDMI to Male VGA version.) and it seems to be still working fine. I switched over from my old JVC I'art to a new Toshiba I purchased and that TV is working perfectly as well with this setup. Hopefully it's just an adapter issue you are having. The only thing I had to change was the settings for region selection. It was sometimes starting certain games as EU region which would cause screen rolling as my TV's don't support PAL.

[Lactose]

I just made a sync on green circuit to get it working.




Works fine without the transcoder just going hdmi -> vga -> component.

I'm probably going to try a 470ohm resistor on pin 13 and see if I can get it working with the transcoder.

[scylark]

Nice. Do you put the sync on green circuit inside the vga adapter or in the cable itself? I thought about trying this out before, but wasn't sure on how to do it exactly. Maybe I will give it a try myself just for fun.

[Lactose]

I put it into the vga adapter.

I got the idea from this thread:

viewtopic.php?f=33&t=4090

A lot of these adapters have hot glue all over the place, so I would check out your adapters first.

[scylark]

Yea, I was wondering about that, most of them don't have screws to open them up, but I'll take a gander. Just happened to find a Belkin VGA adapter at a thrift for .99 cents, so that may be a good candidate.

So did you try the transcoder with the Ugreen adapter yet? Or it's not arrived yet? If that doesn't work then I'm stumped. Finally got around to getting a copy of my INI, so here it is just in case.

Code: Select all

[MiSTer]
key_menu_as_rgui=0     ; set to 1 to make the MENU key map to RGUI in Minimig (e.g. for Right Amiga)
forced_scandoubler=0   ; set to 1 to run scandoubler on VGA output always (depends on core).
ypbpr=0                ; set to 1 for YPbPr on VGA output.
composite_sync=0       ; set to 1 for composite sync on HSync signal of VGA output.
vga_scaler=0           ; set to 1 to connect VGA to scaler output.
hdmi_audio_96k=1       ; set to 1 for 96khz/16bit HDMI audio (48khz/16bit otherwise)
keyrah_mode=0x18d80002 ; VIDPID of keyrah for special code translation (0x23418037 for Arduino Micro)
vscale_mode=1          ; 0 - scale to fit the screen height.
                       ; 1 - use integer scale only.
                       ; 2 - use 0.5 steps of scale.
                       ; 3 - use 0.25 steps of scale.
vscale_border=0        ; set vertical border for TVs cutting the upper/bottom parts of screen (1-399)
;bootscreen=0          ; uncomment to disable boot screen of some cores like Minimig. 
;mouse_throttle=10     ; 1-100 mouse speed divider. Useful for very sensitive mice
rbf_hide_datecode=0    ; 1 - hides datecodes from rbf file names. Press F2 for quick temporary toggle
menu_pal=0             ; 1 - PAL mode for menu core
hdmi_limited=2         ; 1 - use limited (16..235) color range over HDMI
                       ; 2 - use limited (16..255) color range over HDMI, for VGA converters.
direct_video=1         ; 1 - enable core video timing over HDMI, use only with VGA converters.
fb_size=0              ; 0 - automatic, 1 - full size, 2 - 1/2 of resolution, 4 - 1/4 of resolution.
fb_terminal=1          ; 1 - enabled (default), 0 - disabled
osd_timeout=30         ; 5-3600 timeout (in seconds) for OSD to disappear in Menu core. 30 seconds if not set.
                       ; Background picture will get darker after double timeout
osd_rotate=0           ; Display OSD menu rotated,  0 - no rotation, 1 - rotate right (+90°), 2 - rotate left (-90°)                  

; 1 - enables the recent file loaded/mounted.
; WARNING: This option will enable write to SD card on every load/mount which may wear the SD card after many writes to the same place
;          There is also higher chance to corrupt the File System if MiSTer will be reset or powered off while writing.
recents=0

; lastcore - Autoboot the last loaded core (corename autosaved in CONFIG/lastcore.dat) first found on the SD/USB
; lastexactcore - Autoboot the last loaded exact core (corename_yyyymmdd.rbf autosaved in CONFIG/lastcore.dat) first found on the SD/USB
; corename - Autoboot first corename_*.rbf found on the SD/USB
; corename_yyyymmdd.rbf - Autoboot first corename_yyyymmdd.rbf found on the SD/USB
;bootcore=lastcore    ; uncomment to autoboot a core, as the last loaded core.
bootcore_timeout=10  ; 10-30 timeout before autoboot, comment for autoboot without timeout.

; Option to load the custom font. Format is plain bitmap 8x8.
; Supported sizes of font:
;   768 bytes - chars 32-127 (only alpha + numeric)
;  1024 bytes - chars 0-127
;  1136 bytes - chars 0-141
;  up to 2048 - only chars 0-141 will be used.
; if first 32 chars are empty (for sizes 1024 bytes and more) then they are skipped.
font=font/font.pf

; USER button emulation by keybaord. Usually it's reset button.
; 0 - lctrl+lalt+ralt (lctrl+lgui+rgui on keyrah)
; 1 - lctrl+lgui+rgui
; 2 - lctrl+lalt+del
; 3 - same as 0 (lctrl+lalt+ralt on keyrah)
reset_combo=0

dvi_mode=0             ; set to 1 for DVI mode. Audio won't be transmitted through HDMI in DVI mode.

; 0 - 1280x720@60
; 1 - 1024x768@60
; 2 - 720x480@60
; 3 - 720x576@50
; 4 - 1280x1024@60
; 5 - 800x600@60
; 6 - 640x480@60
; 7 - 1280x720@50
; 8 - 1920x1080@60
; 9 - 1920x1080@50
;10 - 1366x768@60
;11 - 1024x600@60
;12 - 1920x1440@60
;13 - 2048x1536@60
;
; custom mode: hact,hfp,hs,hbp,vact,vfp,vs,vbp,Fpix_in_KHz
video_mode=12
video_mode=14

; set to 1-10 (seconds) to display video info on startup/change
video_info=10

; Set to 1 for automatic HDMI VSync rate adjust to match original VSync.
; Set to 2 for low latency mode (single buffer).
; This option makes video butter smooth like on original emulated system.
; Adjusting is done by changing pixel clock. Not every display supports variable pixel clock.
; For proper adjusting and to reduce possible out of range pixel clock, use 60Hz HDMI video
; modes as a base even for 50Hz systems. 
vsync_adjust=2

; If you monitor doesn't support either very low (NTSC monitors may not support PAL) or 
; very high (PAL monitors may not support NTSC) then you can set refresh_min and/or refresh_max
; parameters, so vsync_adjust won't be applied for refreshes outside specified.
; These parameters are valid only when vsync_adjust is non-zero.
refresh_min=0
refresh_max=0

; These parameters have the same format as video_mode.
; You need to supply both PAL and NTSC modes if you want vsync_adjust to switch between
; predefined modes as a base. This will reduce the range of pixel clock.
;video_mode_ntsc=8
;video_mode_pal=9

; 1-10 (seconds) to display controller's button map upon first time key press
; 0 - disable
controller_info=10

; JammaSD/J-PAC/I-PAC keys to joysticks translation
; You have to provide correct VID and PID of your input device
; Examples: Legacy J-PAC with Mini-USB or USB capable I-PAC with PS/2 connectors VID=0xD209/PID=0x0301
; USB Capable J-PAC with only PS/2 connectors VID=0x04B4/PID=0x0101
; JammaSD: VID=0x04D8/PID=0xF3AD
jamma_vid=0x04D8
jamma_pid=0xF3AD

; Disable merging input devices. Use if only player 1 works.
; Leave no_merge_pid empty to apply this to all devices with the same VID.
;no_merge_vid=0x045E
;no_merge_pid=0x028E

; Speeds in sniper/non-sniper modes of mouse emulation by joystick 
; 0 - (default) - faster move in non-sniper mode, slower move in sniper mode.
; 1 - movement speeds are swapped.
sniper_mode=0

; Uncomment following option if you don't want to see a second line for long file names in listing.
;browse_expand=0

; 0 - disable MiSTer logo in Menu core
logo=1

; Custom shared folder for core supporting this feature (currently minimig and ao486 only)
; Can be relative to core's home dir or absolute path.
; Path must exist before core start to use it, or it will fail.
; Make sure USB device is mounted before use shared folder on USB!
shared_folder=

[Lactose]

Just find a seam on the adapter and stick a small screwdriver in it and work around the seam. It is just a shell with a lid on one side that pops off.

[steamedge]

Hey all! Trying to see if I can get this working and trying to summarize what people are doing. Just by going from the latest posts:

Use this UGreen HDMI->VGA adapter
VGA -> Component converter. Is there one that is preferred?
Potentially use the .ini from this post

Should work in 480i mode. For me, that is all I care about for right now. Get it up and running. Does seem correct?

[thorr]

A couple of points... You will need to modify between the VGA and the component cable as described in the huge picture a few posts up. It won't be 480i because interlaced is not supported unless it is supported in the specific core directly like the PSX core. It will be 240p or similar.

[Lactose]

Just wanted to say I tried your Ini with my transcoder and I basically got a rolling picture with squiggly lines. Like this guy:

https://youtu.be/aZd14125cX8?t=89

I can get it to work with yphbr turned on but get a green picture of course.

[Lactose]

Found another solution if people don't want to solder a hdmi to vga cable for sync on green.

https://ultimatemister.com/product/ulti ... -component

You still need the hdmi to vga cable. this thing just adds the sync on green and the component out. It produced a better signal than my shoddy soldering skills.

[tosvus]

I'm a bit confused by the back and forth - but if I want to just use the DE HDMI output without any io board, I would get the Ugreen active hdmi to vga adapter, then the ultimatemister vga-component thingy, and no modification would be needed? Thanks!