So Robert Peip (FPGAzumSpass) Is Working on a New Core...

[Atohmdiy]

I be he is finishing the Saturn core by helping srg320 out.

I really hope this is this.

Everything that's left is fail console that i have personally absolutely 0 interest at. I supported the PSX core for obvious reason, but i certainly won't support a jaguar core.

At this point there was some kind of understanding between players and core dev. I understand Robert is doing what he does for fun, passion and learning, and we player gain wounderfull cores to play with. But when the good stuff is done and what's left is garbage like the jaguar, this kind of understanding somehow weakens. I am sure all these fail console have some interest in the hardware perspective, something a core dev could be interested to work at. But personally it's not enough for me to support this kind of endeavor. It's fine though if the community does and i suppose we'll always fine enthusiastic people even for things like the CDi. It's open source, everyone is free to do whatever they want.

But if you want my opinion on this... Just look why Mister got it's success. Sorge had a pragmatic approach, he decided to use a commonly available hardware instead of boards produced by hobbyist in small run. He also focus on cores and function that are the most important in his eyes (and get some criticism for it by the way). He lefts fail and niche stuff for later and it's the correct approach in my opinion.

Right now the most important for the project is the Saturn. There is still some function missing in some cores (save state, overclocking etc). And there is major arcade boards left to do.

And considering the current situation in Ukraine, maybe some helps for the Saturn core could surely be welcome ? Not sure sgr320 would want it anyway ?

[vanfanel]

Same here. I hope he gets involved in the Saturn core, as its the most important of the missing implementations. Would be a very logical movement indeed.

[Newsdee]

I'm fine with anything. I enjoy all "garbage" systems as much as the popular ones, if the dev is motivated to work on it and the system has games we can try out.

i'd love to see an Alice90 implementation for completeness (but not holding my breath)

[Chilli_Vibes]

I'm fine with anything. I enjoy all "garbage" systems as much as the popular ones

Exactly. Me too. I actually prefer the niche systems, more than the common systems, because you can buy any of the common systems on ebay for common prices - there are hundreds of Saturns/PS1/SNES/NES..etc... Yet, a Memotech MTX512, Enterprise 128, etc.. go for hundreds and hundreds of pounds, and these machines are getting rarer by the day. If we don't preserve these machines, then they'll either be lost to time, or in the hands of wealthy people to display on their shelves.

[Atohmdiy]

As i said you will always fine someone to like these thing. I don't even think there is one acceptable games on most of these consoles. The only one with a shadow of interest is maybe the 3do, and it's surely isn't much at all.
I am talking in the gamer perspective. Sure there is other consideration like collection, nostalgia or whatever. But if this is your thing, maybe it's better to buy the real hardware, not much point to have it in the mister in my opinion.

[KremlingKuthroat19]

I mean one man’s trash is another man’s treasure. After the Saturn is complete some day, that’ll be the last “good” console left.

I think it’s a bit weird that so many people think X console sucks bc the internet said so. Everyone’s entitled to their opinion, but completely writing off a console like the 3DO that has 300+ games as “bad” is a bit extreme imo. There’s very few consoles that don’t have any redeemable games tbh. Even the CD-i has some good software.

Frankly Robert can work on whatever he wants to at this point. He’s earned the right. It’s very rude imo to be publicly “disappointed” in whatever he chooses to work on next as he does this as a hobby outside of his regular job.

[thorr]

Frankly Robert can work on whatever he wants to at this point. He’s earned the right. It’s very rude imo to be publicly “disappointed” in whatever he chooses to work on next as he does this as a hobby outside of his regular job.

Well said.

[Atohmdiy]

I mean one man’s trash is another man’s treasure. After the Saturn is complete some day, that’ll be the last “good” console left.

I think it’s a bit weird that so many people think X console sucks bc the internet said so. Everyone’s entitled to their opinion, but completely writing off a console like the 3DO that has 300+ games as “bad” is a bit extreme imo. There’s very few consoles that don’t have any redeemable games tbh. Even the CD-i has some good software.

Frankly Robert can work on whatever he wants to at this point. He’s earned the right. It’s very rude imo to be publicly “disappointed” in whatever he chooses to work on next as he does this as a hobby outside of his regular job.

You get the same problem as this aberu fellow. You take disagreement for an insult, and it's sad. In your world everyone should be just ecstatic when a fpga core dev (replace dev with god ?) say something.
If you are afraid of people giving their thoughts and opinion, maybe a forum is a bad place for all of you. You should open a cult or something, so you won't find any unbeliever like me with abrasive personality that dare to have a different opinion from the crowd.

That said, i will say what i said again. It's open source, do whatever you want and support whoever you want. I gave some money with patreon to help for the development of the PSX, but i won't do it blindly. I won't support a development for fail console because i am not interested. It is still my right, isn't it ? And i don't think i insult anyone in the process.

[thorr]

I agree with your second paragraph. I just don't see the need to broadcast that you are pulling your support. Just do it and be happy with what you got before. Simple. There are plenty of cores I have no interest in. It doesn't bother me that someone worked on them instead of my preferred cores. Eventually more cores will come.

[PistolsAtDawn]

One really cool thing about having the rarer consoles and computers is that, if you were so inclined, you could trace the history of a game developer or studio from their early, unknown releases on smaller platforms to the most popular releases on major platforms. Psygnosis, for example.

I have done similar deep dives before, all on the MiSTer. This wouldn't be possible without core devs making what interests them and not what random users deem worthy.

[KremlingKuthroat19]

Pretty much what @thorr said. No one's being dramatic. Let people develop what they want. One of the joys of the MiSTer project is exploring platforms I never would've considered in the past so wasted development time to some is time well spent from me and others exploring these obscure libraries.

Regarding what @PistolsAtDawn stated, a great example of this is a company like Naughty Dog. They began as a 3DO developer making Way of the Warrior and then went on to make Crash Bandicoot and is now the crown jewel of Sony studios. Pretty interesting to see where the roots of these developers started. Some of these consoles also have great ports. NBA JAM Tournament Edition's best version is probably the Jaguar version, a console almost no one owned. The 3DO has the definitive version of Wolfenstein 3D. It includes the weapons added to the Jaguar version as well as including a rebook audio soundtrack. As mentioned earlier, every console has some good software if you're willing to look for it.

[C-R-T]

I think the idea of someone dedicating their limited time into making cores for useless systems like the Jaguar, 3do, Cdi and such is quite sad because the end result will not amount to anything good. A few of us nerds may give it a few minutes of attention for a laugh but that’s it. I think the developers time is better spent on something useful and fun which will bring actual joy to more people.

Not everything needs to be preserved or be easily available. Some mistakes should be forgotten.

And some of you need to stop being so contrarian. You do not need to like the underdog for the sake of it, it doesn’t make you cool.

[lsnderick]

Don't you guys think that it is not for you to decide for developers on what they want to spend their time. Its their time not yours.

[HerrBerzerk]

I think the idea of someone dedicating their limited time into making cores for useless systems like the Jaguar, 3do, Cdi and such is quite sad because the end result will not amount to anything good.

I think someone dedicating their limited time in developing cores for useless systems like CPS3 is sad. Instead they should fix the classic 80's arcade cores because these are the best video games ever made and it's the origin of gaming and I love them the most.

Who finds irony here may keep it

[Lightwave]

I think the idea of someone dedicating their limited time into making cores for useless systems like the Jaguar, 3do, Cdi and such is quite sad because the end result will not amount to anything good. A few of us nerds may give it a few minutes of attention for a laugh but that’s it. I think the developers time is better spent on something useful and fun which will bring actual joy to more people.

Not everything needs to be preserved or be easily available. Some mistakes should be forgotten.

Lol, are you joking? Mister users are niche enthusiasts within a niche community within a niche hobby. In case you haven't noticed, people here live for this kind of stuff.

In any case, it is pretty much accepted at this point that nothing past PSX/Saturn is a viable target on the DE10 Nano, and Robert has stated repeatedly that he is not interested in working on Arcade Games. Regardless of wishes and dreams, there is no more low hanging fruit that isn't already under development, so whatever the new core is it's inevitably going to be a niche system. (Of course if a miracle happens and N64 somehow becomes feasible, I'll be very happy to be wrong here).

[LamerDeluxe]

While I appreciate them being available on the MiSTer and do use them occasionally, I personally have little to no nostalgia for many of the popular systems, like the Saturn, modern Capcom arcades, or any of the Nintendo consoles, because I never played them at the time. I was really happy to see a Spectravideo SV-328 core, because that is a computer I used to own. And I have greater nostalgia for the VIC-20 than for the Commodore 64.

Same thing with the Atari Lynx, which often gets bashed, but the core had people discovering that it actually has a lot of well made games.

I personally would like to see a well working Jaguar core, because it is a good example of an early 3D console. I would also like to see a CD-i core, because I have worked on writing code for it at the time. And I remember the hype around the 3DO well, a powerful but very expensive system at the time.

I see the MiSTer as a tiny museum, where you can keep your personal history with all these machines, as well as being able to use rare machines, that you might never have a chance to use the actual hardware of.

I do have the actual hardware of a number of old computers and consoles, but they can develop problems at any time and can be a real hassle to keep running or even just to hook up to use.

All that said, I don't think anyone would be expected to financially support development that they have zero interest in.

[Chris23235]

I think the idea of someone dedicating their limited time into making cores for useless systems like the Jaguar, 3do, Cdi and such is quite sad because the end result will not amount to anything good. A few of us nerds may give it a few minutes of attention for a laugh but that’s it. I think the developers time is better spent on something useful and fun which will bring actual joy to more people.

Not everything needs to be preserved or be easily available. Some mistakes should be forgotten.

And some of you need to stop being so contrarian. You do not need to like the underdog for the sake of it, it doesn’t make you cool.

Maybe the problem is not in not being interested in a system, but this childish language like "fail systems", "useless systems", etc. We get it you are not interested in the 3DO, Jaguar or CDi (up to the point of not even bothering writing them with the proper upper case/lower case letters). It's fine, move on. Other people find plenty of good games on these systems:

Great Jaguar exclusives:
Tempest 2000
Defender 2000
Alien vs. Predator
Iron Soldier I+II
Cybermorph
Battlemorph

Great 3DO exclusives:
Captain Quasar
Blade Force
Lucienne's Quest
The Foes Of Ali
(there are dozens more)

CDi (I don't know the library as good as others, but even here I am aware of at least one great exclusive):
Burn Cycle

It is fine if you are not interested in any of these games, taste varies between people but saying these systems have no games is simply wrong.

[Chilli_Vibes]

Lol, are you joking? Mister users are niche enthusiasts within a niche community within a niche hobby. In case you haven't noticed, people here live for this kind of stuff.

Exactly. I actually find it quite funny, and sad, that someone can say they're not interested in a niche system, while at the same time wanting a core for a niche system (DE10)
You only have to look at the most users this forum has ever had at one time, and it's a whopping.....605....yep...605. I've seen more people in B & Q.
I actually want a 3DO core, CD-I core, and Jaguar core more than any Saturn or PSX core. I can play Saturn games in Retroarch, along with 4k upscaled, z-buffer corrected PSOne games in Beetle PSX (HW) in Retroarch.

[KremlingKuthroat19]

I think we've all stated our opinions. Let's get back on track to the subject at hand. What's Robert's next core?

Hints are that it's probably CD-based bc it has advanced audio and that it has homebrew games. I'm still going with Jaguar/CD, but Saturn is my dark horse.

[neogeo81]

As already stated I say Saturn because we didn't see any updates lately. maybe he took over, that would explain why no updates.

[metalfacemark]

Id love it to be a 3do or a cdi as i had both of these when they came out and traded in the cdi to get the 3do so i didnt get to explore more of that library, even playing on an original console these days is horrible due to the controllers that were out, it would be brilliant if we ever get a core.

3do was a brilliant console at the time, albeit expensive and i swapped mine for a mates neo geo pocket years ago which i bitterly regret now.

Im thankful for any new cores, all these guys developing them are heroes for what they do.

[FPGA64]

As already stated I say Saturn because we didn't see any updates lately. maybe he took over, that would explain why no updates.

Or maybe a War going on and the Dev being in Occupied land may have something to do with it.

[Waifu4Life]

@Chris23235
Just a small correction, but Lucienne's Quest is available on SEGA Saturn in Japanese (called Sword & Sorcery), so if we ever get a translation, well...

@FPGAzumSpass
Sorry, I didn't start this topic for it to become a shit show. While I have my preferences, you make what you want to make, cheers!

[retro]

Maybe the problem is not in not being interested in a system, but this childish language like "fail systems", "useless systems", etc. We get it you are not interested in the 3DO, Jaguar or CDi (up to the point of not even bothering writing them with the proper upper case/lower case letters). It's fine, move on.

So true!

I am grateful for any core that appear on MiSTer, regardless if I am actually interested in that system or if I even want it on my MiSTer.

MiSTer allow these talented devs to historically preserve dead/dying hardware, so I don't see why anyone should complain about it.

It's not like a paywall is being added to anything, or someone is pointing a gun to my head forcing me to download/use a core I don't want.

[retro]

CDi (I don't know the library as good as others, but even here I am aware of at least one great exclusive):
Burn Cycle

If you have an emulator, you should try Labyrinth of Crete. It's a great puzzle game with beautiful presentation.

The CD-i version of Tetris may be simple and basic, but it creates a very zen experience.

[Atohmdiy]

I think the idea of someone dedicating their limited time into making cores for useless systems like the Jaguar, 3do, Cdi and such is quite sad because the end result will not amount to anything good.

I think someone dedicating their limited time in developing cores for useless systems like CPS3 is sad. Instead they should fix the classic 80's arcade cores because these are the best video games ever made and it's the origin of gaming and I love them the most.

Who finds irony here may keep it

You engage yourself in a land of mine really...

I understand that if Robert only want to do console, it's logical to do the fail console after the good one when nothing left, which is the case now. My bet is on the jaguar, but i hope for the 3DO because as i said there still a few correct things in this console.

In the Arcade it's very different. This cps3 thing is a complete joke. I don't even understand how people voted for this thing against the PGM. There is only a few games, all of them are fighting and nearly all of them were ported to consoles. And the thing is apparently extremely hard to do. I don't miss the "it will take another 15 month of work to get the trace of the IC" thing. So much time, money and effort for this. I am asking myself how many great arcade boards could been made instead. And there is a LOT left to do. (And still no news of the NG Pocket by the way, and it makes me sad )

At least with the PGM there is a lot more games and of several genres. And these games are exclusives, no port to any console. Mame is emulation is not perfect so yes there is a point to have a good implantation in FPGA. And these games are great by the way.

if i want to get biter i would say that the one that voted for the cps3 are surely same to find that the jaguar have good games

Yes i

[Mr. Encyclopedia]

I respectfully disagree - the reason the core is where it is today is that it is quite efficient because it's based on a software implementation that cut a lot of corners in the interest of performance at the expense of compatibility. A 'proper' 80486 core would only be more complex and slower, but more accurate.

Given the nature of 486/586 and timing requirements it would probably make the most sense to build a new "corner cutting" core from scratch that supports the instruction set rather than slavishly reproduce a real 32 bit processor in VHDL. The truth is this is how most of the latter-day cores are made. The PSX core is not a perfect replica of Playstation hardware, it's a clone that matches (or exceeds) the original timings. Since PC programs are made to run on a wide variety of different hardware setups, they're rarely as timing sensitive than console games or earlier PC games, so accuracy to original hardware is less important. A core aiming for a mid to late 90s PC is probably doable on MiSTer thanks to this, but I still think it's very unlikely that we could ever get a PC core that emulates both a Pentium-level processor and an early 3D accelerator.

[thorr]

Given the nature of 486/586 and timing requirements it would probably make the most sense to build a new "corner cutting" core from scratch ... but I still think it's very unlikely that we could ever get a PC core that emulates both a Pentium-level processor and an early 3D accelerator.

Agreed with pretty much your whole paragraph, but/and this would be a very exciting core to try. When designing from scratch directly for the MiSTer, it can take advantage of every strength and avoid every weakness of the architecture. I do believe that Pentium level performance is possible. Whether there is room for a FPU, I don't know, but probably. Can a 3D card fit too? Maybe, but probably not. Why do I say "maybe"? Because the PSX core exists and it can run Quake II. Along with the CPU, the GPU can be custom designed to be as minimalistic as necessary to fit in the FPGA while fast as possible and be Direct3d and/or Glide compatible. Where it gets crazy is coming up with drivers for it, and that might be where it ultimately falls apart, unless it emulates a 3DFX card and pretends to be a Voodoo which could be the solution to the driver problem. The cool thing is there is source code available for creating a Voodoo card that can be looked at to figure out how to do it.

I would approach the core in phases. Start with a clean slate and get a working CPU and basic motherboard. Tune it until the performance is the best it will get. Make sure graphics work well - it would be nice to have a proper video card that does not require the scaler if you have a CRT VGA monitor. See how much FPGA space is left. Add a Sound Blaster 16. Add a FPU. Is there room for a GPU at this point? If so, add a GPU. If not, add all the other stuff ao486 supports. If a GPU fits, but nothing else, have two cores. One with GPU, one with all the other stuff that ao486 has and phase out ao486.

[FPGAzumSpass]

I understand that if Robert only want to do console, it's logical to do the fail console after the good one when nothing left, which is the case now. My bet is on the jaguar, but i hope for the 3DO because as i said there still a few correct things in this console.

You have good estimates, but small mistakes

I don't only work on consoles...i also worked a little bit on AO486 and i would like to have C64(my first computer) with savestates someday.
(486 with savestates would be even greater, but that is out of range i guess)

And I wouldn't agree that only fail consoles are left. There are still some left with millions of sales.

[limi]

Amiga with save states would be incredible, but that also seems like a hard project. Thanks for all you do!