So do anyone else use the Astrocade core?
I know it's an odd ball system that not very known any more, it was a great game console in the late 70s early 80s.
I would say that the Astro-Daptor with an actual Astrocade controller works wonderfully on the Astrocade Core. It runs like the actual console (minus the glaring hardware issue the real console has).
Without it alot of games are difficult to play, as the controller is a combination joystick and paddle. Too bad the Astrocade controllers are rare and expensive now. I purchased a broken controller way back for too much, I ended up replacing the controller cable with one that came from a Hyperkin clone Genesis game pad.
Astrocade Core
Re: Astrocade Core
To set up for the Astrocade you need the following
A Bios file (look for it where ever you look for Roms)
A Keyboard, more later.
And Ether a PlayStation/Xbox style gamepad or (and its not cheap) the Astro-daptor from 2600-daptor.com and an Astrocade controller (the Astrocade controller is quite expensive on eBay).
Or you can build your own, but that is outside of the scope here and my ability to help at the moment (you need a Joystick that also doubles as a paddle). You can use the 2600-daptor D9, but the Astro-Daptor functions better in the MiSter. I was lacking full range of the turn knob with the 2600-Daptor D9.
Controller Setup.
With the MiSTer Astrocade core, it wants to treat the turn knob "paddle" as the Y Axis. You need to take this in mind when setting up your controller.
A few games do use the paddle, Gun fight (used to aim), scrible (the in Bios drawing program), Clowns and Brick Yards and a few others.
You also need a keyboard ready to go, as the console had an actual numpad on said console (and not on the controller like the Coleco) and entry on the numpad selects games and options (number of players, difficult, ect) for the various games carts the console had.
A Bios file (look for it where ever you look for Roms)
A Keyboard, more later.
And Ether a PlayStation/Xbox style gamepad or (and its not cheap) the Astro-daptor from 2600-daptor.com and an Astrocade controller (the Astrocade controller is quite expensive on eBay).
Or you can build your own, but that is outside of the scope here and my ability to help at the moment (you need a Joystick that also doubles as a paddle). You can use the 2600-daptor D9, but the Astro-Daptor functions better in the MiSter. I was lacking full range of the turn knob with the 2600-Daptor D9.
Controller Setup.
With the MiSTer Astrocade core, it wants to treat the turn knob "paddle" as the Y Axis. You need to take this in mind when setting up your controller.
A few games do use the paddle, Gun fight (used to aim), scrible (the in Bios drawing program), Clowns and Brick Yards and a few others.
You also need a keyboard ready to go, as the console had an actual numpad on said console (and not on the controller like the Coleco) and entry on the numpad selects games and options (number of players, difficult, ect) for the various games carts the console had.
It is my great regret that we live in an age that is proud of machines that think and suspicious of people who try to.
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Kitrinx
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Re: Astrocade Core
I put some notes about controller setup in the wiki page for this core when I ported it. It's pretty tricky to set up effectively but between analog stick and controller triggers it worked out okay.
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ubersaurus
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Re: Astrocade Core
Hi, it was suggested I register over here from the Discord! I'm a Bally Professional Arcade (Astrocade) owner and recently got a MiSTer, and as someone who has been digging into the FPGA scene I'm really excited about how this can bring a little light to a very underappreciated platform. From messing with the core as-is it seems to do what it does pretty closely to the real deal, though I haven't sunk a huge amount of time going back and forth at this point!
What makes it pretty unique is that unlike most classic consoles the Bally had a pretty strong indie development scene, owing to the fact that it had a few different BASIC carts, a 300-baud cassette interface for saving and loading programs from tape, and a revision of BASIC that had a 2000-baud interface built in. To my knowledge the core currently doesn't support any cassette-related programs, but thanks to the intense preservation work over at Ballyalley.com a lot of these tapes are preserved as wav files, and a whole lot of documentation (including schematics for the console itself and the cassette interface circuitry) can be found up there. Happy to compile it for interested devs - I think it'd be a great use case for the audio-in port MiSTer accessory, as well. Some of these use some very clever tricks, like machine language routines or code arrangements that run code while it's being loaded in, or multiload games, to get around the memory limitations.
There's some other neat pieces of (very rare) hardware that indie devs made and sold for the system that would be pretty cool to see implemented too, and thankfully schematics and design docs do exist for several of them. Most notably are the RAM expansions - the Bally features a light pen jack and an expansion port on the back of the system, and while these were intended for an unreleased add-under computer expansion, in practice they were used for the Blue RAM expansion (which came in several sizes, from 4k up to 32k), the Viper-1 computer expansion, and more recently the aftermarket Lil White RAM. The Blue RAM is interesting, since it also featured a serial port and directions for building a compatible keyboard, and the larger varieties included a special version of BASIC that recognizes the additional memory. The Viper-1 also includes a keyboard and its own distinct BASIC expansion, though this was not as widely used. Schematic documents exist for the Blue RAM and Lil White RAM (which is in many ways a stripped down Blue RAM), not sure if they're around for the Viper-1, though. Still checking. There's a pretty decent number of games that use the expanded RAM, particularly from the hardcore users in the mid-80s, so it'd be great to see those working as well given that all this stuff is such a big part of what makes the system so interesting! (and for what it's worth, MAME's devs didn't even know this stuff existed up until 2019)
Other interesting items that may be worth pursuing - as of last year some other game historians and preservationists were able to scan in the schematics for the aforementioned computer add-under that was, by all indications, complete but unreleased. What is missing is the BIOS running the computer language ZGRASS, though an extant unit does exist at the National Videogame Museum in Texas and they are amenable to dumping the rom (particularly if someone was doing anything with it). This ZGRASS add under was also the basis for the rare Datamax UV-1 computer, which did come out and had a bit of a life as a video art platform in the 80s. Unfortunately these are also very hard to find today, and I haven't come across too much documentation on the UV-1 itself other than speaking to a few folks who worked on (or used) both it and the add-under. But it would be a start! More recently someone was developing schematics for a mod to put the Bally Arcade into a hi-res mode, which I guess he got working. All this is to say that I'm happy to try and compile these various documents to a way that's fairly easy to suss through for anyone interested in implementation.
Also wouldn't mind SNAC support for the actual Bally controllers, since they really are a good way to go with these paddle knob controls.
What makes it pretty unique is that unlike most classic consoles the Bally had a pretty strong indie development scene, owing to the fact that it had a few different BASIC carts, a 300-baud cassette interface for saving and loading programs from tape, and a revision of BASIC that had a 2000-baud interface built in. To my knowledge the core currently doesn't support any cassette-related programs, but thanks to the intense preservation work over at Ballyalley.com a lot of these tapes are preserved as wav files, and a whole lot of documentation (including schematics for the console itself and the cassette interface circuitry) can be found up there. Happy to compile it for interested devs - I think it'd be a great use case for the audio-in port MiSTer accessory, as well. Some of these use some very clever tricks, like machine language routines or code arrangements that run code while it's being loaded in, or multiload games, to get around the memory limitations.
There's some other neat pieces of (very rare) hardware that indie devs made and sold for the system that would be pretty cool to see implemented too, and thankfully schematics and design docs do exist for several of them. Most notably are the RAM expansions - the Bally features a light pen jack and an expansion port on the back of the system, and while these were intended for an unreleased add-under computer expansion, in practice they were used for the Blue RAM expansion (which came in several sizes, from 4k up to 32k), the Viper-1 computer expansion, and more recently the aftermarket Lil White RAM. The Blue RAM is interesting, since it also featured a serial port and directions for building a compatible keyboard, and the larger varieties included a special version of BASIC that recognizes the additional memory. The Viper-1 also includes a keyboard and its own distinct BASIC expansion, though this was not as widely used. Schematic documents exist for the Blue RAM and Lil White RAM (which is in many ways a stripped down Blue RAM), not sure if they're around for the Viper-1, though. Still checking. There's a pretty decent number of games that use the expanded RAM, particularly from the hardcore users in the mid-80s, so it'd be great to see those working as well given that all this stuff is such a big part of what makes the system so interesting! (and for what it's worth, MAME's devs didn't even know this stuff existed up until 2019)
Other interesting items that may be worth pursuing - as of last year some other game historians and preservationists were able to scan in the schematics for the aforementioned computer add-under that was, by all indications, complete but unreleased. What is missing is the BIOS running the computer language ZGRASS, though an extant unit does exist at the National Videogame Museum in Texas and they are amenable to dumping the rom (particularly if someone was doing anything with it). This ZGRASS add under was also the basis for the rare Datamax UV-1 computer, which did come out and had a bit of a life as a video art platform in the 80s. Unfortunately these are also very hard to find today, and I haven't come across too much documentation on the UV-1 itself other than speaking to a few folks who worked on (or used) both it and the add-under. But it would be a start! More recently someone was developing schematics for a mod to put the Bally Arcade into a hi-res mode, which I guess he got working. All this is to say that I'm happy to try and compile these various documents to a way that's fairly easy to suss through for anyone interested in implementation.
Also wouldn't mind SNAC support for the actual Bally controllers, since they really are a good way to go with these paddle knob controls.
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Moondandy
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Re: Astrocade Core
Thanks for the write up, that's a lot of very interesting information you shared. Do you have the schematics and docs shared online anywhere?
Might be worth asking the games museum if they would dump the BIOS, it does feel like that should be preserved regardless and would be needed for anyone to try implement on any platform.
Might be worth asking the games museum if they would dump the BIOS, it does feel like that should be preserved regardless and would be needed for anyone to try implement on any platform.
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ubersaurus
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Re: Astrocade Core
Yes! Like I mentioned, they're all on ballyalley (and archive.org, but this is easier for me to pull up).
300-baud cassette interface schematics, within the Bally BASIC Hackers Guide: https://ballyalley.com/basic/bally_basi ... _guide.pdf
2000-baud interface, built into the AstroBASIC cartridge: https://ballyalley.com/documentation/mi ... egler).pdf
Blue RAM schematics, 16-32k version: https://ballyalley.com/perkins/blue_ram_schematics.pdf
Blue RAM schematics, 4k version are on this page, as well as info about the BR keyboard: https://ballyalley.com/perkins/perkins.html
Lil White RAM schematics and parts list are on here: https://ballyalley.com/documentation/mi ... e_RAM.html
Unreleased add under blueprints can be found on this page, with a high-res tiff download link on there: https://ballyalley.com/documentation/mi ... _docs.html
Spectre Systems analog controller documents, used for the ICBM Attack cartridge (and super rare). I'm in touch with one of the designers, in case more info is needed, but this is from his personal documentation: https://ballyalley.com/documentation/sp ... _notes.pdf
https://ballyalley.com/documentation/sp ... r_docs.pdf
Viper-1 info that's available, including schematics: https://ballyalley.com/documentation/viper/viper.html
Various photos of these things and more for visual reference: https://ballyalley.com/pics/hardware_pi ... tures.html
Bonuses: unreleased light pen schematics: https://ballyalley.com/documentation/mi ... Flamm).pdf
Also the Bally Arcade schematic itself as redone in 2011 from the Service Manual and a longtime enthusiast's double-checking of a unit: https://ballyalley.com/documentation/mi ... 02011).pdf
Info on the hi-res modification designs: https://ballyalley.com/documentation/hi ... kages.html
Balcheck error-testing design, which plugs into the expansion port: https://ballyalley.com/documentation/Ba ... Check.html
I've already been in touch with the museum about dumping the BIOS, and they're open to doing so, I just also think it's been a low priority with the pandemic and everything. Will be happy to reengage, particularly if there's interest in getting it working in some form of emulation.
300-baud cassette interface schematics, within the Bally BASIC Hackers Guide: https://ballyalley.com/basic/bally_basi ... _guide.pdf
2000-baud interface, built into the AstroBASIC cartridge: https://ballyalley.com/documentation/mi ... egler).pdf
Blue RAM schematics, 16-32k version: https://ballyalley.com/perkins/blue_ram_schematics.pdf
Blue RAM schematics, 4k version are on this page, as well as info about the BR keyboard: https://ballyalley.com/perkins/perkins.html
Lil White RAM schematics and parts list are on here: https://ballyalley.com/documentation/mi ... e_RAM.html
Unreleased add under blueprints can be found on this page, with a high-res tiff download link on there: https://ballyalley.com/documentation/mi ... _docs.html
Spectre Systems analog controller documents, used for the ICBM Attack cartridge (and super rare). I'm in touch with one of the designers, in case more info is needed, but this is from his personal documentation: https://ballyalley.com/documentation/sp ... _notes.pdf
https://ballyalley.com/documentation/sp ... r_docs.pdf
Viper-1 info that's available, including schematics: https://ballyalley.com/documentation/viper/viper.html
Various photos of these things and more for visual reference: https://ballyalley.com/pics/hardware_pi ... tures.html
Bonuses: unreleased light pen schematics: https://ballyalley.com/documentation/mi ... Flamm).pdf
Also the Bally Arcade schematic itself as redone in 2011 from the Service Manual and a longtime enthusiast's double-checking of a unit: https://ballyalley.com/documentation/mi ... 02011).pdf
Info on the hi-res modification designs: https://ballyalley.com/documentation/hi ... kages.html
Balcheck error-testing design, which plugs into the expansion port: https://ballyalley.com/documentation/Ba ... Check.html
I've already been in touch with the museum about dumping the BIOS, and they're open to doing so, I just also think it's been a low priority with the pandemic and everything. Will be happy to reengage, particularly if there's interest in getting it working in some form of emulation.
Re: Astrocade Core
I’m an Astrocade user. 
I have been since I was about 3 years old. It was my first game experience in fact. I can remember it very clearly, and have always had a huge soft spot for the system. The one we had unfortunately died the common heat-death. I still have some of the carts.
I actually set up a little emulation system just for the Astrocade for my parents, bought a few controllers and daptors for them etc.
This system is the primary reason for spinners on my new arcade controller.
I have been since I was about 3 years old. It was my first game experience in fact. I can remember it very clearly, and have always had a huge soft spot for the system. The one we had unfortunately died the common heat-death. I still have some of the carts.
I actually set up a little emulation system just for the Astrocade for my parents, bought a few controllers and daptors for them etc.
This system is the primary reason for spinners on my new arcade controller.
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chopperthedog
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Re: Astrocade Core
New to mister and can't seem to get the analog control of a real astrocade controller with a 2600-daptor set with the Y axis. If you hit space at the X axis point it just skips to stick 2. If you rotate knob in the stick 1 X axis the mister will move to the Y axis but since the data was already programmed to X you get stuck. How can I skip the X axis and get to the Y?
good day.
good day.
Re: Astrocade Core
Is anyone using this core on a CRT using the analog (component) video out? On my screen things are shifted a bit too far to the left. Wondering if this can be tweaked.
EDIT: adjusted horiz position in the service menu for my TV and it's looking much better.
Re: Astrocade Core
Question for this core, and possible feature request (if possible).
I've got two TurboTwist 2 spinners in my arcade setup. I wanted to use them as much for the Astrocade as the arcade games that use them.
The issue seems to be that each spinner is seen as a single mouse axis. (of the same mouse) So the left one on my setup is vertical mouse, and the right one is horizontal mouse.
So the right one will aim for the second player on the Astrocade since it's X axis. The Left one however, doesn't seem to want to be assigned to the pot/spin control for the first player.
Just curious if anyone knows a way around this. I saw a line in the MiSTer INI file for AXIS controls, but changing it didn't seem to help.
If there isn't currently a way around it, could it be implemented?
Thanks!
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KremlingKuthroat19
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Re: Astrocade Core
So I tested the Astrocade core yesterday, and was ready to do a deepdive into the library, and began with Gun Fight. The problem is that I can't get the paddle to work at all. I'm using a DualSense controller and the paddle doesn't work on either analog stick. I tried what the readme suggested by mapping the d-pad to the right analog stick but the paddle didn't work on the left analog stick. Then I mapped the d-pad movement to the DualSense d-pad and all the other buttons to regular buttons to see if maybe mapping the d-pad to the right analog stick caused problems. Still, couldn't get any functionality whatsoever out of the paddles.
I tested this core a year or two ago and there used to be a Rotate CW and a Rotate CCW button. Obviously that's not ideal bc it's not precise enough for a paddle, but it worked very well for the Super NTT Datapad that I have when mapping those paddle buttons to the shoulder buttons and the numberpad to the numberpad on the Datapad. I haven't changed the controls on that controller since I mapped it a couple years ago and the rotate CW and CCW buttons don't work anymore.
I believe all the games run perfectly on the core, but the paddle control is completely broken atm. Can anyone else test this using a USB controller with an analog stick please?
Re: Astrocade Core
I did have it working very early on with Daptors and real Astrocade pistol-grip controllers. However, I gave that setup to my dad.
Since then, I've been trying to get my Turbotwist spinners working, and one of them does (using the X axis) but I can't assign the Y axis, so I can't get a second player going with direction AND pot.
I think the input needs to be able to split axes, use multiple separate mouse/spinner/dial inputs, or analog sticks in order to be useful to anyone.
I have my doubts that anyone is looking at this core though currently unfortunately. I learned to play video games on this system when I was 3 years old It has a very special place for me, so I would love to see more flexible input support for it. It's surprising how much fun it is to play Gunfight with two players in this day and age.
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KremlingKuthroat19
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Re: Astrocade Core
J3RK wrote: ↑Mon Apr 03, 2023 6:32 pmI did have it working very early on with Daptors and real Astrocade pistol-grip controllers. However, I gave that setup to my dad.
Since then, I've been trying to get my Turbotwist spinners working, and one of them does (using the X axis) but I can't assign the Y axis, so I can't get a second player going with direction AND pot.
I think the input needs to be able to split axes, use multiple separate mouse/spinner/dial inputs, or analog sticks in order to be useful to anyone.
I have my doubts that anyone is looking at this core though currently unfortunately. I learned to play video games on this system when I was 3 years old
I'd like the paddle support to work like the 7800 core handles it. The 7800 handles paddles perfectly. Also the Master System core works very well too since you can map the paddle to the analog stick in that core too.
It's pretty necessary though. About half of the library is unplayable without proper paddle support so I hope it gets looked at again.
Edit: Just tested with the SN30 Pro controller and the paddle controls don't work with that controller either so it's not a DualSense issue
Re: Astrocade Core
KremlingKuthroat19 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 03, 2023 6:44 pmJ3RK wrote: ↑Mon Apr 03, 2023 6:32 pmI did have it working very early on with Daptors and real Astrocade pistol-grip controllers. However, I gave that setup to my dad.
Since then, I've been trying to get my Turbotwist spinners working, and one of them does (using the X axis) but I can't assign the Y axis, so I can't get a second player going with direction AND pot.
I think the input needs to be able to split axes, use multiple separate mouse/spinner/dial inputs, or analog sticks in order to be useful to anyone.
I have my doubts that anyone is looking at this core though currently unfortunately. I learned to play video games on this system when I was 3 years old
I'd like the paddle support to work like the 7800 core handles it. The 7800 handles paddles perfectly. Also the Master System core works very well too since you can map the paddle to the analog stick in that core too.
It's pretty necessary though. About half of the library is unplayable without proper paddle support so I hope it gets looked at again.
Edit: Just tested with the SN30 Pro controller and the paddle controls don't work with that controller either so it's not a DualSense issue
Agreed, I also use DualSense pads for most things, and SN30 (non-pro). (but would love to start using my arcade stick setup with the spinners)
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KremlingKuthroat19
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Re: Astrocade Core
Good news. I discovered the issue with the paddle controls. Apparently, the paddle has been broken for over 2 years ago. Digging into the recent versions of the core, the latest release that has paddle support for the left analog stick is Astrocade_20190927.
There must have been some kind of framework update or something like that which caused the paddle to break in 2020 and onwards. Nevertheless, the issue has been pinpointed and I've made a Github ticket too: https://github.com/MiSTer-devel/Astroca ... r/issues/7
Re: Astrocade Core
KremlingKuthroat19 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 06, 2023 12:55 pmGood news. I discovered the issue with the paddle controls. Apparently, the paddle has been broken for over 2 years ago. Digging into the recent versions of the core, the latest release that has paddle support for the left analog stick is Astrocade_20190927.
There must have been some kind of framework update or something like that which caused the paddle to break in 2020 and onwards. Nevertheless, the issue has been pinpointed and I've made a Github ticket too: https://github.com/MiSTer-devel/Astroca ... r/issues/7
Nice! Thanks for looking further into this! Hopefully it will be fixed, and maybe even updated to be a bit more flexible.
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KremlingKuthroat19
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Re: Astrocade Core
J3RK wrote: ↑Thu Apr 06, 2023 7:32 pmKremlingKuthroat19 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 06, 2023 12:55 pmGood news. I discovered the issue with the paddle controls. Apparently, the paddle has been broken for over 2 years ago. Digging into the recent versions of the core, the latest release that has paddle support for the left analog stick is Astrocade_20190927.
There must have been some kind of framework update or something like that which caused the paddle to break in 2020 and onwards. Nevertheless, the issue has been pinpointed and I've made a Github ticket too: https://github.com/MiSTer-devel/Astroca ... r/issues/7
Nice! Thanks for looking further into this! Hopefully it will be fixed, and maybe even updated to be a bit more flexible.
Sorg fixed the Astrocade core today! What a great guy. This is a huge W. You can now play the core while mapping the paddles to the X or Y axis on both the left and right analog stick. This is the only core I'm aware of that allows mapping to either stick. It's necessary though bc the Astrocade console is the only console that has a controller that has 8-way movement and a paddle in the same device.
I suggest mapping the movement to the left stick and changing the paddle to the right analog stick X or Y axis depending on whatever game it is. For the games that only use the paddle and no 8-way joystick such as Brickyard for example, it feels more comfortable to map that to the left stick. I also suggest adding the fire button to both the left and right trigger and using the D-pad and face buttons to map the keypad keys with the start button being mapped to the = button.
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chopperthedog
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Re: Astrocade Core
@Sorgelig Thanks a bunch!
I'm able to set up and use with original controller now.
good day.
Re: Astrocade Core
I've been doing some changes on the arcade version to fix a few problems, but one is the difference in colours.
Can someone try this version and see if the colours now match the original a little closer.
Thanks
- Attachments
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- Astrocade.zip
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Re: Astrocade Core
Rewired my arcade setup today, and fixed some small issues I was having with it and the MiSTer in general.
For some reason I’m still having trouble getting my second spinner to map, but it’s possible it’s a hardware issue. I’ll be checking on that tomorrow, and will report back if I have useful information for others.
Re: Astrocade Core
Got two spinners working. I just replaced my TurboTwists with GRS Spinners. Works on both sides now. However, the axes are reversed. Just for Astrocade. Other spinner/pot cores see them correctly. I'm still trying to figure this out, and it's possible that I can flip them using the configuration program for the spinners (maybe). However, if anyone working on this core sees this, if we could get a "Flip Axis" option for the spinners, that would solve this. Though I'm not sure how wide-spread this is among other spinning devices.