Apple II Core

[Newsdee]

I realized MiST has two different Apple II cores (II+ and //e).
Our MiSTer core is a port of the //e version, but are there differences between these three cores?

I know MiSTer has added the ability to load .dsk, .do and .po files, which is amazing (no more fiddling with the old .nib converter!).
The one big item missing would be disk write support. I thought MiST supported it, but the //e core definitely doesn't.

[darksakul]

The MiSTer Apple II core can select what you want though a few settings in the OSD.

The II+ is kinda the baseline of the Apple II series,
while the //e was a more upgraded model such as having more ram (128k vs 48k) double hi-resolution graphics, and a 65C02 CPU.

There a break down of the different models of the Apple II series on this thread
https://www.applefritter.com/node/24236

I also know that the MiSTer has more logical elements to utilize than the MiST, MiSTer can support bigger cores.

[Newsdee]

The issue is not FPGA capacity but lack of interested devs

Yes, in general using 128K (so //e and above) is preferred to run most games.
Some Apples could support hard drives, but I don't think any games benefit from it.

[DaveRL]

I'd love an Apple II+ variant of the core. It's what I learned to program on and some of the games run the best on it (Wizardry).
Also there is a missing option in the core to write protect the disk drive.
Some games have their disk write protected and will not work if they can write to the disk.

[Newsdee]

Do you have examples of those games? I can't remember if the core defaults to write protected, or if it allows writing to disks in memory. So it would be a good test.

[DaveRL]

Yes I have one of the games 'Wizardry I' where it just hangs after the boot screen because it checks to see if the main disk is write protected and that fails. I was looking to play the game again as I bought it when it originally came out for the Apple II+

[Newsdee]

The Mockinboard sound in this core no longer seems to work with my capture card... I suppose it might be slightly off spec?
I do get sound from a headset connected directly to my monitor audio output, so it does go through the HDMI cable at least.

[akeley]

How accurate is this core? Aprat from the write disk support (a big one) are there any other important features missing?

I have zero experience with Apple machines so can't tell if something is a glitch or not working because of the core itself, or if that's how it was originally (or needs some settings tweak).

[rhester72]

I've had a bit of difficulty with absolute cardinal directions on the analog stick (Karateka for example), but for the most part it's worked as expected.

Yeah, the lack of write support sucks. I wanna LOGO.

[deepthaw]

I wonder if lack of support is the result of Apple II's being one of the cheaper and easier vintage computers to collect. Not that hard to just buy one if you really want it.

[akeley]

Apple 2 cheap(er)? Umm...I'm not even sure if that's true in the US, definitely not here in the EU. Even so, there are zillions of cheap C64 or ZXs, for example, yet these cores are fairly well developed.

It is interesting though, given how popular, and pioneering the AII was. It's similar when it comes to its software preservation, because I'm not aware of any properly organised and documented resources (comparable to Lemon or ZXDB databases for example). You are welcome to correct me though, because I'm starting to be really fascinated by this machine.

Do you think its aspect ratio and border are okay? I display on PC CRT monitor, via Direct Video. The scaling looks perfect, but the border is really big, or at least seems so to me. I tried to look at some vids from the real thing but they are scarce, sometimes there is a border though, not sure if as big as on my monitor.

[deepthaw]

Apple 2 cheap(er)? Umm...I'm not even sure if that's true in the US, definitely not here in the EU. Even so, there are zillions of cheap C64 or ZXs, for example, yet these cores are fairly well developed.

It is interesting though, given how popular, and pioneering the AII was. It's similar when it comes to its software preservation, because I'm not aware of any properly organised and documented resources (comparable to Lemon or ZXDB databases for example). You are welcome to correct me though, because I'm starting to be really fascinated by this machine.

Do you think its aspect ratio and border are okay? I display on PC CRT monitor, via Direct Video. The scaling looks perfect, but the border is really big, or at least seems so to me. I tried to look at some vids from the real thing but they are scarce, sometimes there is a border though, not sure if as big as on my monitor.

I can only go by my experiences here in the states, where Apple IIe's still regularly sell for sub-$100 used and aren't hard to find. Particular *models* can go for a lot, but an Apple II in general isn't hard find.

My best resource for Apple II information has been the Apple II enthusiast's group on Facebook, and Asimov is an excellent site with basically all of the software to download. And bizarrely enough, comp.sys.apple2 is actually pretty hopping. It feels like most of the Apple II info is "institutional" and not well documented at this point.

The border is hard to tell on real hardware - I'll need to hook mine up to a TV rather than a composite monitor to see how it compares. They'd both be composite, but the monitor I've done all the tweaking/stretching positioning for my Apple 2 so it might be real weird compared to the tv.

[Newsdee]

I still have a functional (and fully pimped) Apple IIe, but it's hard to beat the convenience of running a small FPGA core on HDMI.

What's missing is write support, write protection (some games test for it), and hard drive capability. The latter is probably not useful to play games, but it is supported by CF adapters in real hardware. As a big stretch, it would be nice to be able to "print" by saving the image to disk... then it could replace a real Apple II fully

For writing to disks I'd be happy if it was just a disk dump into a separate file, like a NES save, meaning the original .dsk is untouched.

[matthewpont]

The Mockinboard sound in this core no longer seems to work with my capture card... I suppose it might be slightly off spec?
I do get sound from a headset connected directly to my monitor audio output, so it does go through the HDMI cable at least.

I can't get sound out via HDMI either. I play on a CRT and the sound works, but I also stream HDMI to a PC, and that part is silent (I get the video fine).

[akeley]

I'm really happy that I have never bothered with retro-Apple before (residue of my general Apple-hating). It's such a huge library to explore.

It seems that the "border" might not really be a border but 2x original hi-res resolution, reporting 560x386 on my PC VGA CRT monitor. Which has the lowest 640x480 I think, hence the centered image and "borders". Does that make sense? This is how it looks:

IMG-20201114-221252.jpg (3.09 MiB) Viewed 68834 times

I also ran it side by side with AppleWin on normal PC display. AppleWin has several gfx modes, I think this core's "Color" corresponds to AppleWin (and OG Apple's) "NTSC Monitor" setting, because it's a bit fuzzy. Or maybe it's "Color TV"? Wonder if "RGB Monitor" equivalent could be possible.

[Newsdee]

Glad you like it, there's plenty of great games on the Apple II!

I think this core's "Color" corresponds to AppleWin (and OG Apple's) "NTSC Monitor" setting, because it's a bit fuzzy. Or maybe it's "Color TV"? Wonder if "RGB Monitor" equivalent could be possible.

Color output has always been fuzzy on the Apple II, since it does not natively produce color (the color is made from NTSC artifacting).
Not sure what AppleWIn uses for it's "RGB" output - but it's a full frame post-processing it could be hard to implement on an FPGA.

[Newsdee]

I just tested, MiSTer's output is much sharper than all modes in Apple Win, except for the "RGB Monitor" one.
But it gets really close to it, which is good enough for me

Try these settings (for HDMI):
- Use 1080p resolution
- Scandoubler FX: None
- Scale Filter: Custom
- Select filter "Scanlines (Sharp)"
- Gamma Correction: ON
- Select gamma option "Pure Gamma/gamma_140"

That will get you close to the color range that AppleWin uses for the RGB monitor setting.
There is still a bit of fuzziness on the edges of horizontal lines, but the scanlines should help make the overall image sharper.

If you also want to make scanlines as sharp as possible, then you need to use integer scaling. Try adding this to your MiSTer.INI:

Code: Select all

[Apple-II]
vsync_adjust=0
vscale_mode=1
forced_scandoubler=0
vga_scaler=0
vscale_border=0

If you use a CRT a lot of the options above will do nothing; in that case try using Scandoubler FX: 50% or 75%.

[Newsdee]

total_replay.png (10.82 KiB) Viewed 72531 times

I just found out about this nice disk image... it's a 32MB ProDOS disk + a boot disk for the menu.
Would be fantastic if we could run this... but I guess we can use regular disks instead.

[franbour]

I was an Apple IIe fan 40 years ago. I do like this core, but I have some problem. I am french and use AZERTY keyboards which are not supported by the core. I have bought a QWERTY keyboard (windows) but I can't type the "#", which is used in many places in applesoft.

Thank you for your help and many thanks for the huge job .

[retrodroid]

I have a similar problem with this core. I would like to remap some keyboard keys to my USB controller, but can't seem to figure out how to make that work.

Specifically, I'd like to map the A/Z keys (up/down) to up/down on the d-pad so I can play Star Blazer using the controller.
Any advice is appreciated.

[retrodroid]

I have a similar problem with this core. I would like to remap some keyboard keys to my USB controller, but can't seem to figure out how to make that work.

Specifically, I'd like to map the A/Z keys (up/down) to up/down on the d-pad so I can play Star Blazer using the controller.
Any advice is appreciated.

I got this to work by using a different controller and setting the game to use Joystick mode. Well, I worked around the keyboard remapping not working for me, anyway.

[killersquirel]

If I remember correctly the Apple II core used to have two floppy drives. Is it possible to get that implemented in again? I bought Nox Archaist and that requires two disks in the drives to load from.

[Aeana]

I wanted to play Nox Archaist, too, but the core doesn't support writing to disks either, so...

[nemopapa]

I have a similar problem with this core. I would like to remap some keyboard keys to my USB controller, but can't seem to figure out how to make that work.

Specifically, I'd like to map the A/Z keys (up/down) to up/down on the d-pad so I can play Star Blazer using the controller.
Any advice is appreciated.

I got this to work by using a different controller and setting the game to use Joystick mode. Well, I worked around the keyboard remapping not working for me, anyway.

I've used to changed the latest core which showing "Apple //e" to older 'Apple-II_20190930.rbf' core which "APPLE ][" version.
Download old core and put .rbf file to core directory. It works keyboard well. But 20190930 core only support .nib and should use dsk2nib converter.

[retrodroid]

I've used to changed the latest core which showing "Apple //e" to older 'Apple-II_20190930.rbf' core which "APPLE ][" version.
Download old core and put .rbf file to core directory. It works keyboard well. But 20190930 core only support .nib and should use dsk2nib converter.

Ah, I see. Thanks for the response!

[Newsdee]

I wanted to play Nox Archaist, too, but the core doesn't support writing to disks either, so...

The core really needs to support disk write to be complete... unfortunately I have no idea how to it myself, or I would try.

[ExCyber]

I've been looking into this, but it's not trivial. Disk II exposes a lot of the underlying drive behavior to Apple II software; the CPU essentially performs the role of the controller. I have two-drive read support semi-working, but there are still a couple of quirks around mounting/unmounting that I don't really understand (I think this relates to a preexisting bug that's less obvious when swapping disks on a single drive). Some of the interface is handled with timing hacks, and I'm not sure whether those would present a problem for write support.

[chocomochino]

Hello is there any guide with the files ? i want to play some Apple II games and i have no clue where to start with VHD's

[Newsdee]

Hello is there any guide with the files ? i want to play some Apple II games and i have no clue where to start with VHD's

Hard drives are not supported yet. You need to use floppies in .dsk, .nib, or .po format.

[chocomochino]

Hello is there any guide with the files ? i want to play some Apple II games and i have no clue where to start with VHD's

Hard drives are not supported yet. You need to use floppies in .dsk, .nib, or .po format.

Thx i've been playing but i saw some un bootable disks anyone knows how i can load a O.S? i want to play "Uninvited" have failed to find a way to do so