Direct Video No Picture on CRT VGA Monitor

Discussion about displays and related hardware including MiSTer filters and video settings.
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Bren McGuire
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Direct Video No Picture on CRT VGA Monitor

Unread post by Bren McGuire »

I can't get a signal on my CRT monitor (or better, the monitor is getting something because it doesn't display the "no connection" message, but I'm not getting a picture). I'm using an HDMI-VGA converter and my monitor is a standard PC monitor, it can support 1280x960 but I was planning to run the MiSTer menu at 1024x768 (or even lower).

According to the Direct Video MiSTer FAQ/guide I only need to change two parameters in my "mister.ini", is it really all that it's needed?

Here's my "mister_alt_1.ini" (I'm selecting it with the controller hotkey before turning on the monitor):

Code: Select all

[MiSTer]
key_menu_as_rgui=0     ; set to 1 to make the MENU key map to RGUI in Minimig (e.g. for Right Amiga)
forced_scandoubler=1   ; set to 1 to run scandoubler on VGA output always (depends on core).
ypbpr=0                ; set to 1 for YPbPr on VGA output.
composite_sync=0       ; set to 1 for composite sync on HSync signal of VGA output.
vga_scaler=0           ; set to 1 to connect VGA to scaler output.
hdmi_audio_96k=1       ; set to 1 for 96khz/16bit HDMI audio (48khz/16bit otherwise)
keyrah_mode=0x18d80002 ; VIDPID of keyrah for special code translation (0x23418037 for Arduino Micro)
vscale_mode=0          ; 0 - scale to fit the screen height.
                       ; 1 - use integer scale only.
                       ; 2 - use 0.5 steps of scale.
                       ; 3 - use 0.25 steps of scale.
vscale_border=0        ; set vertical border for TVs cutting the upper/bottom parts of screen (1-399)
;bootscreen=0          ; uncomment to disable boot screen of some cores like Minimig. 
;mouse_throttle=10     ; 1-100 mouse speed divider. Useful for very sensitive mice
rbf_hide_datecode=0    ; 1 - hides datecodes from rbf file names. Press F2 for quick temporary toggle
menu_pal=0             ; 1 - PAL mode for menu core
hdmi_limited=1         ; 1 - use limited (16..235) color range over HDMI
                       ; 2 - use limited (16..255) color range over HDMI, for VGA converters.
direct_video=1         ; 1 - enable core video timing over HDMI, use only with VGA converters.
fb_size=0              ; 0 - automatic, 1 - full size, 2 - 1/2 of resolution, 4 - 1/4 of resolution.
fb_terminal=1          ; 1 - enabled (default), 0 - disabled
osd_timeout=30         ; 5-3600 timeout (in seconds) for OSD to disappear in Menu core. 30 seconds if not set.
                       ; Background picture will get darker after double timeout
osd_rotate=0           ; Display OSD menu rotated,  0 - no rotation, 1 - rotate right (+90°), 2 - rotate left (-90°)                  

; 1 - enables the recent file loaded/mounted.
; WARNING: This option will enable write to SD card on every load/mount which may wear the SD card after many writes to the same place
;          There is also higher chance to corrupt the File System if MiSTer will be reset or powered off while writing.
recents=0

; lastcore - Autoboot the last loaded core (corename autosaved in CONFIG/lastcore.dat) first found on the SD/USB
; lastexactcore - Autoboot the last loaded exact core (corename_yyyymmdd.rbf autosaved in CONFIG/lastcore.dat) first found on the SD/USB
; corename - Autoboot first corename_*.rbf found on the SD/USB
; corename_yyyymmdd.rbf - Autoboot first corename_yyyymmdd.rbf found on the SD/USB
;bootcore=lastcore    ; uncomment to autoboot a core, as the last loaded core.

; 10-30 timeout before autoboot, comment for autoboot without timeout.
bootcore_timeout=10

; Option to load the custom font. Format is plain bitmap 8x8.
; Supported sizes of font:
;   768 bytes - chars 32-127 (only alpha + numeric)
;  1024 bytes - chars 0-127
;  1136 bytes - chars 0-141
;  up to 2048 - only chars 0-141 will be used.
; if first 32 chars are empty (for sizes 1024 bytes and more) then they are skipped.
font=font/myfont.pf

; USER button emulation by keybaord. Usually it's reset button.
; 0 - lctrl+lalt+ralt (lctrl+lgui+rgui on keyrah)
; 1 - lctrl+lgui+rgui
; 2 - lctrl+lalt+del
; 3 - same as 0 (lctrl+lalt+ralt on keyrah)
reset_combo=3

; set to 1 for DVI mode. Audio won't be transmitted through HDMI in DVI mode.
dvi_mode=1

; 0 - 1280x720@60
; 1 - 1024x768@60
; 2 - 720x480@60
; 3 - 720x576@50
; 4 - 1280x1024@60
; 5 - 800x600@60
; 6 - 640x480@60
; 7 - 1280x720@50
; 8 - 1920x1080@60
; 9 - 1920x1080@50
;10 - 1366x768@60
;11 - 1024x600@60
;12 - 1920x1440@60
;13 - 2048x1536@60
;
; custom mode: hact,hfp,hs,hbp,vact,vfp,vs,vbp,Fpix_in_KHz
;   video_mode=1280,110,40,220,720,5,5,20,74250
video_mode=1

; set to 1-10 (seconds) to display video info on startup/change
video_info=10

; Set to 1 for automatic HDMI VSync rate adjust to match original VSync.
; Set to 2 for low latency mode (single buffer).
; This option makes video butter smooth like on original emulated system.
; Adjusting is done by changing pixel clock. Not every display supports variable pixel clock.
; For proper adjusting and to reduce possible out of range pixel clock, use 60Hz HDMI video
; modes as a base even for 50Hz systems. 
vsync_adjust=2

; If you monitor doesn't support either very low (NTSC monitors may not support PAL) or 
; very high (PAL monitors may not support NTSC) then you can set refresh_min and/or refresh_max
; parameters, so vsync_adjust won't be applied for refreshes outside specified.
; These parameters are valid only when vsync_adjust is non-zero.
refresh_min=0
refresh_max=0

; These parameters have the same format as video_mode.
; You need to supply both PAL and NTSC modes if you want vsync_adjust to switch between
; predefined modes as a base. This will reduce the range of pixel clock.
;video_mode_ntsc=0
;video_mode_pal=7

; 1-10 (seconds) to display controller's button map upon first time key press
; 0 - disable
controller_info=6

; JammaSD/J-PAC/I-PAC keys to joysticks translation
; You have to provide correct VID and PID of your input device
; Examples: Legacy J-PAC with Mini-USB or USB capable I-PAC with PS/2 connectors VID=0xD209/PID=0x0301
; USB Capable J-PAC with only PS/2 connectors VID=0x04B4/PID=0x0101
; JammaSD: VID=0x04D8/PID=0xF3AD
jamma_vid=0x04D8
jamma_pid=0xF3AD

; Disable merging input devices. Use if only player 1 works.
; Leave no_merge_pid empty to apply this to all devices with the same VID.
;no_merge_vid=0x045E
;no_merge_pid=0x028E

; Same as above but can add multiple devices (one entry per VIDPID). Format is VIDPID in hex number
;no_merge_vidpid=0x12345678
;no_merge_vidpid=0x11112222

; Speeds in sniper/non-sniper modes of mouse emulation by joystick 
; 0 - (default) - faster move in non-sniper mode, slower move in sniper mode.
; 1 - movement speeds are swapped.
sniper_mode=0

; Uncomment following option if you don't want to see a second line for long file names in listing.
;browse_expand=0

; 0 - disable MiSTer logo in Menu core
logo=1

; Custom shared folder for core supporting this feature (currently minimig and ao486 only)
; Can be relative to core's home dir or absolute path.
; Path must exist before core start to use it, or it will fail.
; Make sure USB device is mounted before use shared folder on USB!
shared_folder=

; Custom aspect ratio
;custom_aspect_ratio_1=16:10
;custom_aspect_ratio_2=1:1

; use specific (VID/PID) mouse X movement as a spinner and paddle. Use VID=0xFFFF/PID=0xFFFF to use all mice as spinners.
;spinner_vid=0x1BCF
;spinner_pid=0x0005

; spinner_throttle with base value 100 gives one spinner step per one tick. Higher value makes spinner slower.
; Lower than 100 makes spinner faster. Negative value gives opposite direction.
;spinner_throttle=-50

; 0 - X axis, 1 - Y axis.
;spinner_axis=1

; Default filters for video scaler and audio. Paths must be relative to scaler/audio filter folder without leading slash.
;vfilter_default=LCD Effects/LCD_Effect_07.txt
;afilter_default=LPF2000_3tap.txt

; Defines internal joypad mapping from virtual SNES mapping in main to core mapping
; Set to 0 for name mapping (jn) (e.g. A button in SNES core = A button on controller regardless of position on pad)
; Set to 1 for positional mapping (jp) (e.g. A button in SNES core = East button on controller regardless of button name)
gamepad_defaults=0

; Write out file name under the cursor in browser for external integration
; External application or script may parse the info and do some additional actions and/or send info to 3rd party server.
; Warning: it may slowdown the system or add lag while browsing the files in OSD depending on external app/script.
log_file_entry=0

; Automatically disconnect (and shutdown) Bluetooth input device if not use specified amount of time.
; Some controllers have no automatic shutdown built in and will keep connection till battery dry out.
; 0 - don't disconnect automatically, otherwise it's amount of minutes.
bt_auto_disconnect=0

; Reset Bluetooth dongle before pair dialog.
; Some dongles may have problem to pair if not explicitly reset.
; Some dongles (mostly CSR) have problem to pair with BLE if not reset in advance.
; Consequence of reset: some input devices get shutdown after reset.
bt_reset_before_pair=0
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Re: Direct Video No Picture on CRT VGA Monitor

Unread post by akeley »

Bren McGuire wrote: Thu Dec 28, 2023 6:16 pm

According to the Direct Video MiSTer FAQ/guide I only need to change two parameters in my "mister.ini", is it really all that it's needed?

That should be enough. Your config looks like the old version though, best use the most recent one in such troubleshooting cases: https://github.com/MiSTer-devel/Main_Mi ... MiSTer.ini

Try to apply these settings to this fresh one.

The downside of using scandoubler is that you can't use the video presets/filters from Video Processing tab in OSD - only the much simpler Scandoubler FX (in Audio Video OSD tab). So I ignore the scandoubler and use VGA scaler with some modelines for 31kHz cores. You can try my attached VGA config, just rename it to mister.ini (plus then you will also need to choose a preset such as JVC or PVM in Video Processing).

Attachments
VGA TW mister.ini
(12.65 KiB) Downloaded 244 times

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Re: Direct Video No Picture on CRT VGA Monitor

Unread post by FoxbatStargazer »

If you have any other display to check the direct video out you might try that (e.g. a 4K display), getting a compatible hdmi->Vga adapter isn't always easy. You might also try direct_video/forced_scandoubler to 0 and selecting a compatible video mode instead (something lower resolution.)

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Re: Direct Video No Picture on CRT VGA Monitor

Unread post by Bren McGuire »

FoxbatStargazer wrote: Fri Dec 29, 2023 12:46 am

If you have any other display to check the direct video out you might try that (e.g. a 4K display)

So, I tested the MiSTer + VGA adapter with a regular LCD 1080p monitor that also happens to have a D-SUB VGA input and the results are weird:

MiSTer HDMI+VGA adapter = I get 0 picture, I tried 3 different alt.ini including the one I downloaded from this very thread.

MiSTer HDMI to the monitor HDMI input = I always get the picture, although with the alt inis it gets messed up or distorted.

Windows PC HDMI + the same VGA adapter and the same monitor = I get the picture. I looked up the monitor resolution in Windows and it's 1920x1080@60

The weirdest part is that MiSTer+VGA doesn't work even with the default ini. Shouldn't the MiSTer output be the same as the PC (1920x1080@60)?

FoxbatStargazer wrote: Fri Dec 29, 2023 12:46 am

getting a compatible hdmi->Vga adapter isn't always easy.

That's why I choose it by following a link from this guide which was suggested to me in another post

This is the adapter: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4001187113560.html

FoxbatStargazer wrote: Fri Dec 29, 2023 12:46 am

You might also try direct_video/forced_scandoubler to 0 and selecting a compatible video mode instead (something lower resolution.)

You mean like this?
direct_video=0
forced_scandoubler=0
video_mode=6

Don't VGA monitors run obligatorily at 31Khz though?

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Re: Direct Video No Picture on CRT VGA Monitor

Unread post by Nioreh »

You won't be able to run direct video on most VGA monitors. They don't support 15kHz (240p).

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Re: Direct Video No Picture on CRT VGA Monitor

Unread post by Bren McGuire »

Nioreh wrote: Fri Dec 29, 2023 3:53 pm

You won't be able to run direct video on most VGA monitors. They don't support 15kHz (240p).

I thought the scandoubler option took care of that. Aside from that, there is the problem that the MiSTer doesn't work through the VGA adapter whatsoever (no matter the settings and the type of the monitor) while a common PC does.

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Re: Direct Video No Picture on CRT VGA Monitor

Unread post by akeley »

Bren McGuire wrote: Fri Dec 29, 2023 4:32 pm

I thought the scandoubler option took care of that.

It sure does, they're just plain wrong (at least in regard to CRT monitors). Plus, you don't even need the scandoubler, like I said previously (but might need some modelines). Overall, I can run every core on a VGA monitor (one of which is old, uncommon, and very fussy), including 15kHz PAL micros.

Bren McGuire wrote: Fri Dec 29, 2023 4:32 pm

Aside from that, there is the problem that the MiSTer doesn't work through the VGA adapter whatsoever (no matter the settings and the type of the monitor) while a common PC does.

If you are absolutely sure you're using the right settings with the default and clean ini then it really is very weird. Did you try this adapter with a 15kHz TV so you can confirm it's working? Did you try to use lower resolution (eg 640x480) on your CRT?

It's really easy to make a simple mistake because there are so many hard/software variables - I''ve done that countless times myself - but the only other options is that you either have some super sensitive monitors or your adapter is somehow borked (both are rather unlikely).

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Re: Direct Video No Picture on CRT VGA Monitor

Unread post by Bren McGuire »

akeley wrote: Fri Dec 29, 2023 4:54 pm

If you are absolutely sure you're using the right settings with the default and clean ini then it really is very weird.

Just to be sure I downloaded the default mister.ini from here: https://github.com/MiSTer-devel/Main_Mi ... MiSTer.ini... and it doesn't work. To be double sure I first tested the MiSTer with an HDMI cable (on the same monitor) and there's no problem there, I get the picture as soon as I plug the cable in.

akeley wrote: Fri Dec 29, 2023 4:54 pm

Did you try this adapter with a 15kHz TV so you can confirm it's working?

I can't try it on a 15kHz TV at the moment because I still haven't got a VGA/SCART cable.

akeley wrote: Fri Dec 29, 2023 4:54 pm

Did you try to use lower resolution (eg 640x480) on your CRT?

I'll try the CRT monitor again tomorrow, I have to move the setup from another room.

akeley wrote: Fri Dec 29, 2023 4:54 pm

It's really easy to make a simple mistake because there are so many hard/software variables - I''ve done that countless times myself - but the only other options is that you either have some super sensitive monitors or your adapter is somehow borked (both are rather unlikely).

This whole situation is baffling.

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Re: Direct Video No Picture on CRT VGA Monitor

Unread post by FoxbatStargazer »

Bren McGuire wrote: Fri Dec 29, 2023 1:54 pm
FoxbatStargazer wrote: Fri Dec 29, 2023 12:46 am

You might also try direct_video/forced_scandoubler to 0 and selecting a compatible video mode instead (something lower resolution.)

You mean like this?
direct_video=0
forced_scandoubler=0
video_mode=6

Don't VGA monitors run obligatorily at 31Khz though?

Mostly we are dealing with SVGA monitors these days that can run well over 31khz, 31khz is the minimum. Mode 5 or 4 might work also, but sure, might as well start with 6. This is mostly a test to sus out if the problem is direct_video compatibility with the converter or not, with direct_video off, from the HDMI port you're going to get scaled output to 640x480, 800x600, etc., whatever your video_mode is set to.

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Re: Direct Video No Picture on CRT VGA Monitor

Unread post by thorr »

I didn't read everything very carefully, but my best guess is the HDMI to VGA adapter you are using won't work. The MiSTer is VERY picky with what it will work with when it comes to HDMI to VGA adapters. Use this one instead: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01MS611LJ/

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Re: Direct Video No Picture on CRT VGA Monitor

Unread post by Bren McGuire »

FoxbatStargazer wrote: Fri Dec 29, 2023 8:18 pm
Bren McGuire wrote: Fri Dec 29, 2023 1:54 pm
FoxbatStargazer wrote: Fri Dec 29, 2023 12:46 am

You might also try direct_video/forced_scandoubler to 0 and selecting a compatible video mode instead (something lower resolution.)

You mean like this?
direct_video=0
forced_scandoubler=0
video_mode=6

Don't VGA monitors run obligatorily at 31Khz though?

Mostly we are dealing with SVGA monitors these days that can run well over 31khz, 31khz is the minimum. Mode 5 or 4 might work also, but sure, might as well start with 6. This is mostly a test to sus out if the problem is direct_video compatibility with the converter or not, with direct_video off, from the HDMI port you're going to get scaled output to 640x480, 800x600, etc., whatever your video_mode is set to.

OK, I'll try that tomorrow, in the meantime I checked what kind of chip is inside the VGA adapter, and it's this one:

20231229-220211.jpg
20231229-220211.jpg (1001.77 KiB) Viewed 3318 times

The chip is the CS5210 which is considered good by the guide, except in one occasion: when it's inside a Vention adapter, and guess what? My adapter is Vention branded.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... edit#gid=0 (line 43)

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Re: Direct Video No Picture on CRT VGA Monitor

Unread post by thorr »

That guide is interesting. I am looking at getting a different adapter now, although my adapter is not on the list and it has a beautiful picture. They don't make them anymore.

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Re: Direct Video No Picture on CRT VGA Monitor

Unread post by Bren McGuire »

thorr wrote: Fri Dec 29, 2023 9:47 pm

I didn't read everything very carefully, but my best guess is the HDMI to VGA adapter you are using won't work. The MiSTer is VERY picky with what it will work with when it comes to HDMI to VGA adapters. Use this one instead: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01MS611LJ/

Unfortunately that's not available in Europe. I currently set my sight on this one explicitly mentions the CS5210 chipset, although my adapter also mounts the CS5210 and it doesn't work.

So, I don't know what to do now. Can somebody point to an adapter that it's sure to work but it's available in Europe?

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Re: Direct Video No Picture on CRT VGA Monitor

Unread post by thorr »

Bren McGuire wrote: Fri Dec 29, 2023 10:09 pm

So, I don't know what to do now. Can somebody point to an adapter that it's sure to work but it's available in Europe?

How about this one? https://www.grooves.land/bicy-box-adapt ... 77034.html It had a perfect rating on the spreadsheet. It doesn't come with audio though so you would need to solve that separately.

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Re: Direct Video No Picture on CRT VGA Monitor

Unread post by akeley »

Bren McGuire wrote: Fri Dec 29, 2023 9:53 pm

The chip is the CS5210 which is considered good by the guide, except in one occasion: when it's inside a Vention adapter, and guess what? My adapter is Vention branded.

The star rating in this guide refers to image quality. The adapter itself should still work regardless of that.

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Re: Direct Video No Picture on CRT VGA Monitor

Unread post by thorr »

I don't know if it is the case here, or even relevant at all, but also make sure your dipswitches are in the correct position: https://mister-devel.github.io/MkDocs_M ... eshooting/

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Re: Direct Video No Picture on CRT VGA Monitor

Unread post by Bren McGuire »

FoxbatStargazer wrote: Fri Dec 29, 2023 8:18 pm
Bren McGuire wrote: Fri Dec 29, 2023 1:54 pm

You mean like this?
direct_video=0
forced_scandoubler=0
video_mode=6

Don't VGA monitors run obligatorily at 31Khz though?

Mostly we are dealing with SVGA monitors these days that can run well over 31khz, 31khz is the minimum. Mode 5 or 4 might work also, but sure, might as well start with 6. This is mostly a test to sus out if the problem is direct_video compatibility with the converter or not, with direct_video off, from the HDMI port you're going to get scaled output to 640x480, 800x600, etc., whatever your video_mode is set to.

I tried it now and it doesn't work.

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Re: Direct Video No Picture on CRT VGA Monitor

Unread post by Bren McGuire »

thorr wrote: Fri Dec 29, 2023 10:17 pm

I don't know if it is the case here, or even relevant at all, but also make sure your dipswitches are in the correct position: https://mister-devel.github.io/MkDocs_M ... eshooting/

I did, they are OK

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Re: Direct Video No Picture on CRT VGA Monitor

Unread post by Bren McGuire »

thorr wrote: Fri Dec 29, 2023 10:10 pm

How about this one? https://www.grooves.land/bicy-box-adapt ... 77034.html It had a perfect rating on the spreadsheet.

It seems pretty good, does anyone own one of these?

thorr wrote: Fri Dec 29, 2023 10:10 pm

It doesn't come with audio though so you would need to solve that separately.

That's not a problem, I wasn't planning to use the audio from the adapter anyways.

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Re: Direct Video No Picture on CRT VGA Monitor

Unread post by FoxbatStargazer »

So it seems like the VGA adapter doesn't work in general with Mister but it does work with the PC.

I wonder how (or if) you are powering the adapter? It seems to have a micro-USB for taking power if the HDMI power is insufficient. Try plugging it into the same thing whether using PC or Mister?

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Re: Direct Video No Picture on CRT VGA Monitor

Unread post by Bren McGuire »

FoxbatStargazer wrote: Sat Dec 30, 2023 9:21 pm

So it seems like the VGA adapter doesn't work in general with Mister but it does work with the PC.

I wonder how (or if) you are powering the adapter? It seems to have a micro-USB for taking power if the HDMI power is insufficient. Try plugging it into the same thing whether using PC or Mister?

Unfortunately I got the version without audio, so it doesn't have the micro USB port. I wonder if it still has the power components on the board.

Vention-HDMI-Spliiter-HDMI-to-HDMI-VGA-Adapter-4-in-1-4K-HDMI-to-HDMI-VGA.jpg_640x640.jpg_.webp
Vention-HDMI-Spliiter-HDMI-to-HDMI-VGA-Adapter-4-in-1-4K-HDMI-to-HDMI-VGA.jpg_640x640.jpg_.webp (23.29 KiB) Viewed 3317 times

But now I'm worried, since the adapter that was suggested a few comments above is also without external power.

Thinking about it, could it be that the short HDMI extension attached on my Nano interferes with the VGA adapter? I highlighted it in this picture, it goes under the USB hub

20220812-153629-crop.jpg
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Re: Direct Video No Picture on CRT VGA Monitor

Unread post by FoxbatStargazer »

Yeah its possible, one of the HDMI pins carries 5V power, if the extension cable either doesn't support the pin, or else the power is attenuating too much over the two connectors for whatever reason. Would be advisable to try the vga adapter connected directly to the de-10 socket.

If that's the issue, the easiest fix might be a vga adapter with audio just to get the external power cable, though it makes me wonder if the external power will also drive the VGA side or if its just there for the audio DAC! Another possibility would be to just put the vga adapter inside your case and have it push out a VGA cable instead of HDMI.

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