N64 Core Development Ends

[Xbytez]

Robert has posted to his Patreon about the reaching the end of the N64 development.

If you are already or wish to become a Patreon you can read the post directly here:

https://www.patreon.com/posts/n64-core-ends-100278345

[pbsk8]

so the last version is march 3rd?

What happened? Could you summarize? He finished because there is nothing to add or something else?

[AngelicLiver]

DDR3 latency deficiency means that resolving some issues with games like Conker and Jet Force Gemini is impossible on the DE10-Nano. Robert will be taking a break (about two weeks) buttoning things up and releasing the core to the official repository. It's not grave news, it just means we've hit the ceiling on the DE10-Nano. The core still works great in most scenarios and this is a massive achievement.

[Xbytez]

The post focuses on limitations with the built in DDR3 memory on the DE10-Nano board. Despite efforts to address latency issues, he has found no satisfying solution due to the hardware limitations.

Robert also announced he is taking a break of around two weeks to recuperate from a busy year of core development, but has plans to integrate the Nintendo 64 core into the official MiSTer repository and release it.

I do not wish to post the full text here of the Patreon post without Robert's prior permission as this is only currently posted on his Patreon, but below I have taken the liberty and posted Robert's closing paragraph of the Patreon post which I think perfectly conveys my feelings on his absolutely awesome work bringing the N64 core to MiSTer.

I would be glad if this outcome is not perceived as funeral, but rather as last step of a great journey. Especially when pushing the wall so hard that it falls, I rather would like to look at the fallen wall than to look at the few bricks that refused to fall. It certainly helps to have the motivation to tackle such large projects again, that seem so difficult you shouldn't even try.

[Neocaron]

I'm very happy wth the core already and I think what have been done is quite spectacular! So it's a well deserved break for sure! I hope he'll release a turbo core along side, because it made a big difference in many games even back in december. Thank you Robert!

[PistolsAtDawn]

Considering it was commonly thought the N64 was impossible on the DE-10 Nano, development ending because it can go no further than it already has should in no way be considered a failure.

This is a triumph! I'm making a note here: HUGE SUCCESS!

Excellent work, Robert! I hope you enjoy your well-deserved break.

[Armakuni]

What Robert has created is some piece or work and we should be very grateful for the effort put into it
MiSTer has cores some with their origins dating back decades which are not perfect so he has nothing to be sad about

[mong00se]

Big pat on the back for all his hard work.

[ItalianGrandma]

Amazing work from Robert! I guess our only hope now for these remaining games are some brilliant people to (maybe) come along and patch the games themselves.

[thorr]

The N64 core is absolutely incredible. It is shocking to me that this thread has such a sad feel to it. The core is a triumph and should be celebrated!

As a side note, I am wondering if slightly underclocking the core where needed could solve the remaining issues with latency for those games and just put an option in the core for it. It might cause other issues though with trying to display on the screen without losing sync, etc. I don't know anywhere near enough about it to say whether this could even be possible.

[Waifu4Life]

The way I see it, this MiSTer core has better compatibility and hardware accuracy than most N64 software emulators, so it's still a win in my book. Most non-working games have PS1 or Dreamcast alternatives anyway. That being said, could the issues with the handful of games that crash be resolved with ROM patches?

[thorr]

It certainly helps to have the motivation to tackle such large projects again, that seem so difficult you shouldn't even try.

Putting in my bid now for a Windows 98SE / DOS core with a 3Dfx graphics card. Create a custom modern x86 32-bit CPU designed around the strengths and weaknesses of the DE10 Nano to maximize performance, and have basic stereo sound card support (SB16 only) because games of the era don't need all the 486 sound cards (just want it to all fit). Later add more sound cards if there is still space. Start with the 3Dfx and then design the CPU with remaining space. This early 3D PC gaming time frame is the only gap in my setup. I have a Windows XP PC for later era 3D games. By the way, this is another "impossible" core idea.

[akeley]

The way I see it, this MiSTer core has better compatibility and hardware accuracy than most N64 software emulators

I'd like to know whether this is actually true (but have a feeling it'll be hard to find out).

[CMR]

Robert is the GOAT. Brilliant work. I'm looking forward to seeing what he does next. Have a good vacation, Robert.

[midline_slippy]

I am super greatful for what work has been put into the core and am super happy for what we have!!

THANK YOU!!

[heinzgruber]

is there a compatibility list for games with the latest core?

[AngelicLiver]

is there a compatibility list for games with the latest core?

Yes, here. For how frenetic the development pace was, it might not be completely up-to-date.

Graph.png (29.12 KiB) Viewed 18413 times

[FPGA64]

This list too

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... edit#gid=0

[softtest9]

The core is absolutely incredible, like the PS1 core. I think when Robert says perfect, he basically means bsnes-level perfect. This may not be possible on the DE10-nano, but will you notice the difference? And of course I'm sure that the core can be perfect when better FPGA hardware is available.

[pbsk8]

now let's see how the analog n64 will have same compatibility coincidentally as robert's core

[dcubed]

Shame that we're not quite 100% there, but still; being far more accurate and reliable than any PC-based software emulator aint half bad at all! Robert's core is, by far, the most accurate representation of the N64's hardware that you can currently get outside of owning original hardware now.

Incredible achievement by Robert here, and it also means that when we do get a true successor to the current DE10 Nano based MiSTer, we'll have a 95% complete core ready to go when we have that extra headroom there to polish off those final issues. Awesome stuff!

[Neocaron]

I ust wanted to throw out here that after some testing last night, I would recommand for people who experience crashes on RE2 and Conker to use the overclock DDR3 RAM script, yesterday I was wondering if I got lucky since I never had any crashes on RE2 while using the script in the past month. So I decided to not use it last night and RE 2 crashed 3 times out of 5 in less than 30min while it never happened with the DDR3 OC script: You can find more info about it here:

viewtopic.php?p=77612&hilit=overclock#p77612

The OC I use is 1050mhz, it's always stable for me:
script is available here. I know there is a way to prioritize the timing instead of the speed but I didn't look into it.
https://github.com/coolbho3k/MiSTer-Ove ... _mem_oc.sh

Let me know how it goes for you on the games like Conkers and RE2 regarding crashes

It's important to note that the script has to be reactivated everytime you reboot or turn off your Mister

[Retro-Nerd]

Resident Evil 2 PAL is fine though. Didn't complete it, but played a few hours.

[Coolbho3k]

I ust wanted to throw out here that after some testing last night, I would recommand for people who experience crashes on RE2 and Conker to use the overclock DDR3 RAM script, yesterday I was wondering if I got lucky since I never had any crashes on RE2 while using the script in the past month. So I decided to not use it last night and RE 2 crashed 3 times out of 5 in less than 30min while it never happened with the DDR3 OC script: You can find more info about it here:

viewtopic.php?p=77612&hilit=overclock#p77612

The OC I use is 1050mhz, it's always stable for me:
script is available here. I know there is a way to prioritize the timing instead of the speed but I didn't look into it.
https://github.com/coolbho3k/MiSTer-Ove ... _mem_oc.sh

Let me know how it goes for you on the games like Conkers and RE2 regarding crashes

It's important to note that the script has to be reactivated everytime you reboot or turn off your Mister

I was testing the script with Jet Force Gemini and it always still crashed at the same point in the intro no matter what I did. I even tried overclocking the FPGA to HPS bridge that DDR3 accesses have to cross, by 33%, as Robert said that was a bottleneck to no avail on JFG.

Conker and RE2 crash too infrequently to consistently test I just was too lazy to try to test those lol. I guess I can try to play through one of those games.

For what it's worth the memory overclock script improves worst case DDR3 latency by about 20% at 1000 MHz for me, measured using Robert's DDR3 test core. For what it's worth, Robert doesn't think it helps worst case latency last time he checked, but I recently measured different. I don't know enough about the core whether this should help or not.

[BrYaN55]

I ust wanted to throw out here that after some testing last night, I would recommand for people who experience crashes on RE2 and Conker to use the overclock DDR3 RAM script, yesterday I was wondering if I got lucky since I never had any crashes on RE2 while using the script in the past month. So I decided to not use it last night and RE 2 crashed 3 times out of 5 in less than 30min while it never happened with the DDR3 OC script: You can find more info about it here:

viewtopic.php?p=77612&hilit=overclock#p77612

The OC I use is 1050mhz, it's always stable for me:
script is available here. I know there is a way to prioritize the timing instead of the speed but I didn't look into it.
https://github.com/coolbho3k/MiSTer-Ove ... _mem_oc.sh

Let me know how it goes for you on the games like Conkers and RE2 regarding crashes

It's important to note that the script has to be reactivated everytime you reboot or turn off your Mister

I can confirm this for RE2! I was able to finish Leon A without any crash. I was using the 950 mhz since 1050 mhz didn't seem to be working all the time for me. But that was a great fix so far, thank you Coolbho3k!

[andrewkendall]

The N64 core is absolutely incredible. It is shocking to me that this thread has such a sad feel to it. The core is a triumph and should be celebrated!

I fully agree. The work on this core was astounding. I'm old enough to remember when UltraHLE first dropped. I didn't think N64 emulation would ever be so "wow" again, but I was wrong.

It's been so cool to run the update script every week and see such major progress every time. No sadness here, just pure joy that we got this far.

[Neocaron]

I ust wanted to throw out here that after some testing last night, I would recommand for people who experience crashes on RE2 and Conker to use the overclock DDR3 RAM script, yesterday I was wondering if I got lucky since I never had any crashes on RE2 while using the script in the past month. So I decided to not use it last night and RE 2 crashed 3 times out of 5 in less than 30min while it never happened with the DDR3 OC script: You can find more info about it here:

viewtopic.php?p=77612&hilit=overclock#p77612

The OC I use is 1050mhz, it's always stable for me:
script is available here. I know there is a way to prioritize the timing instead of the speed but I didn't look into it.
https://github.com/coolbho3k/MiSTer-Ove ... _mem_oc.sh

Let me know how it goes for you on the games like Conkers and RE2 regarding crashes

It's important to note that the script has to be reactivated everytime you reboot or turn off your Mister

I was testing the script with Jet Force Gemini and it always still crashed at the same point in the intro no matter what I did. I even tried overclocking the FPGA to HPS bridge that DDR3 accesses have to cross, by 33%, as Robert said that was a bottleneck to no avail on JFG.

Conker and RE2 crash too infrequently to consistently test I just was too lazy to try to test those lol. I guess I can try to play through one of those games.

For what it's worth the memory overclock script improves worst case DDR3 latency by about 20% at 1000 MHz for me, measured using Robert's DDR3 test core. For what it's worth, Robert doesn't think it helps worst case latency last time he checked, but I recently measured different. I don't know enough about the core whether this should help or not.

Are you using PAL or NTSC? Because I did use PAL and I'm guessing timing are less critical since it has more time per frame to acces the DDR3, maybe that's why it crashes less or not all on PAL game with the OC? Does Jet Force Gemini have a PAL version? Did you try OC both timing and speed to see if you could see an improvement?

[Hodor]

Shame that we're not quite 100% there, but still; being far more accurate and reliable than any PC-based software emulator aint half bad at all! Robert's core is, by far, the most accurate representation of the N64's hardware that you can currently get outside of owning original hardware now.

Incredible achievement by Robert here, and it also means that when we do get a true successor to the current DE10 Nano based MiSTer, we'll have a 95% complete core ready to go when we have that extra headroom there to polish off those final issues. Awesome stuff!

That´s not correct. Ares is more accurate than the current implementation of the core, therefore it can´t be "the most accurate representation of the N64´s hardware that you can currently get outside of owning original hardware".

Robert´s work is amazing, but you can´t be serious saying that.

[AtomicShroom]

but will you notice the difference?

I mean, yes. There's many games that crash (either 100% or randomly) or are unplayable, and some obviously run too fast or too slow in some cases. The difference is not hard to notice. I get what you're saying, but let's not pretend it's accurate to a point where people won't notice. They will. Especially if they try to run Jet Force Gemini or Conker.

[psakhis]

DDR3 memory in De10 still gives me doubts.
I tested speed in HPS and results are lower 512Mb is faster (25% more or less) than 512Mb reserved for FPGA.

This is just a "memcpy" test, i can't say about latency.