Creative Music System / Game Blaster (CMS/GB)

[chimaera]

Originally postedin the wishlist thread but I think it deserved its own

Original post:

I would really love to have CMS/GB support in the AO486 core.

Admittedly, the Sound Blaster with FM sounds better than CMS/GB in most cases(Mostly because of badly programmed music IMO), but the CMS/GB has an interessting chiptune sound, quite unique to the PC.
In my opinion, games like The Secret of Monkey Island (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hF6YpwQ8YEk) and Times of Lore (https://youtu.be/TAAx2jIx_xA) sounds really great with CMS/GB sound.
Other examples: https://youtu.be/ZwgZzuFXzLc


So what was the Creative Music System / Game Blaster?

The Creative Music System was Creatives first sound card released in 1987, and were later rebranded as Game Blaster.
It had a Programmable Sound Generator (PSG) made up by two Philips SAA1099 chips, which provided 12 channels of square-wave and 4 channels of noise for that chiptune sound in stereo (SB1 FM had mono).
The CMS/GB card was later replaced by Sound Blaster 1.0, but the new series of card still had CMS/GB support up til Sound Blaster 2.0 (Even though later relases only had empty sockets for those CMS/GB "upgrade" kits).
The CMS/GB sound were deemed inferior to the FM sound of the Sound Blaster series, and lost developer support. CMS/GB support were therefore discontinued after Sound Blaster 2.0.

For more info, goto:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sound_Bla ... me_Blaster
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philips_SAA1099
https://nerdlypleasures.blogspot.com/20 ... grade.html
https://nerdlypleasures.blogspot.com/20 ... about.html


There were close to 100 games that supported the CMS/GB, some of the most famous examples being:
*The Secret of Monkey Island
*Prince of Persia
*Ultima VI
*Wing Commander II
*Early Sierra Titles in the Larry, Kings Quest, Space Quest, Police Quest and A Quest for Glory series.
(A list of compatible games can be found at: https://www.mobygames.com/attribute/she ... Id,42/p,2/ )


The CMS/GB is fully emulated in DOSBox (https://github.com/dosbox-staging/dosbo ... laster.cpp)
Settings:
[sblaster]
sbtype=gb
oplmode=auto

or

[sblaster]
sbtype=sb1 (or) sb2
oplmode=cms

or(!)

[sblaster]
sbtype=none
oplmode=cms

Some games like one or another config better, the first (sbtype=gb) seems to work for most of the games. Other games used CMS as music and SB för digitized effects.


The MiSTer cores ZX Spectrum (https://github.com/MiSTer-devel/ZX-Spectrum_MISTer) and the SAM Coupé (https://github.com/MiSTer-devel/SAM-Coupe_MiSTer) cores both has the same Philips SAA1099 chips.


There are also clone cards available for the PC:
https://github.com/gemedetpaps/MUS-1099
https://texelec.com/product/saaym/



Since the Sound Blaster series were CMS/GB compatible, it would make sense to include it (if possible) to be able to hear it in all FPGA glory.
If not together, then atleast as seperate choices (like CMS/OPL2/OPL3). Less preferable though.

Most CMS/GB compatible games hardcode the I/O to 220h, but on physical it was changeable via a jumper on the card, default being 220h.
If it would be implemented in the core, it would be good to be able to change I/O port so the PSG and FM could coexist since some games used a combination of the two.
A problem though is that alot of the CMS/GB compatible games expects 220h, but there is a patching project (https://www.vogons.org/viewtopic.php?t=58927) to patch games to I/O 210 instead.


I am guessing though that it is too large to include in the core, but I can always suggest

[NightShadowPT]

Well... funny that all the games mentioned that support CMS are the same ones supporting the MT-32

I wouldn't mind seeing CMS simulation but let's face it, with MT-32 as an option it will never be much more than a novelty.

[Reed_Solomon]

You make a convincing argument and it is certainly helpful that the relevant chipset is already available in other cores. It does sound nice.

[chimaera]

Well... funny that all the games mentioned that support CMS are the same ones supporting the MT-32

I wouldn't mind seeing CMS simulation but let's face it, with MT-32 as an option it will never be much more than a novelty.

I get what you are saying, but I personally never owned a MT32 and for me that sounds a bit off compared to the SB I had, so I enable SB/Adlib rather than MT32 because that is a part of my nostalgia.

Its the same for the Master System. The EU version only had the PSG sound and not the FM chip the Mark III had as an addon. The FM chip has objectionally better quality sounds, but i prefer the PSG even though there are hacks that enable FM sounds on some games.

Im quite sure you can find other similar examples.

CMS is not for everyone, like MT32 is not for everyone, but both are part of different peoples nostalgia for the IBM-PC and is worth replicating and preserving.

[Lukage]

Well, the CMS is nothing more than 4 address spaces for two SAA chips, two addresses each. As such, it is very simple to implement, but it does have a catch.

And that catch is a CMS detection scheme and its compatibility with Sound Blaster.

Because SAA chips are write only, Creative created a detection scheme made of 5 additional registers, one with fixed value, and two which copied written bytes to another two. But this detection address space overlaps with Sound Blaster address space, and this creates a compatibility problem, which was present even on original computers with newer CMS equipped Sound Blaster cards. As such, there are numerous workarounds for games, and TSRs to correct this situtation.

It very much corresponds to the situation you are describing - you need different settings in DosBox for different games, and that is because of this little address space overlap problem and different ways to go around it.

I would personally do not exactly want this kind of incompatble hardware in my 486

[chimaera]

Well, the CMS is nothing more than 4 address spaces for two SAA chips, two addresses each. As such, it is very simple to implement, but it does have a catch.

And that catch is a CMS detection scheme and its compatibility with Sound Blaster.

Because SAA chips are write only, Creative created a detection scheme made of 5 additional registers, one with fixed value, and two which copied written bytes to another two. But this detection address space overlaps with Sound Blaster address space, and this creates a compatibility problem, which was present even on original computers with newer CMS equipped Sound Blaster cards. As such, there are numerous workarounds for games, and TSRs to correct this situtation.

It very much corresponds to the situation you are describing - you need different settings in DosBox for different games, and that is because of this little address space overlap problem and different ways to go around it.

I would personally do not exactly want this kind of incompatble hardware in my 486

Well thats the reason i wrote a suggestio that oplmode could be changeable with OPL2/3.

About compability, i would say that there already are incompabilities in hardware in the core now. Thats the reason you can change things like CPU speed and memory size in core options.

Anyhow, Im not really expecting it to be implemented, but im pushing the idea out there.

[Sorgelig]

Generally speaking CMS should be easy to add as SAA1099 is available in FPGA long time already.
I will check.
CMS can be implemented in other addresses valid for standalone CMS card to avoid conflicts.

[chimaera]

That sounds great!
Im looking forward to see if you get it to work.
Thank you for your time!

[Schyz]

I'm very interested in CMS support, it would be a great addition to the core.

[NightShadowPT]

I get what you are saying, but I personally never owned a MT32 and for me that sounds a bit off compared to the SB I had, so I enable SB/Adlib rather than MT32 because that is a part of my nostalgia.

You're making a very good point here.

Although the MT-32 is much better, nostalgia plays a big part in the enjoyment we get out of these machines and the MiSTer.

[thorr]

I also would love CMS support. My friend had the original Sound Blaster with the CMS chips and I loved a lot of the games with that sound. I later got an ATI StereoFX sound card that had empty sockets for the CMS chips, but I couldn't convince my friend to donate his CMS chips to me, lol.

[Reed_Solomon]

I also would love CMS support. My friend had the original Sound Blaster with the CMS chips and I loved a lot of the games with that sound. I later got an ATI StereoFX sound card that had empty sockets for the CMS chips, but I couldn't convince my friend to donate his CMS chips to me, lol.

If you still have that sound card you could probably get the chips on ebay or aliexpress for cheap.

[SuperBabyHix]

I also would love CMS support. My friend had the original Sound Blaster with the CMS chips and I loved a lot of the games with that sound. I later got an ATI StereoFX sound card that had empty sockets for the CMS chips, but I couldn't convince my friend to donate his CMS chips to me, lol.

If you still have that sound card you could probably get the chips on ebay or aliexpress for cheap.

A CMS upgrade usually require the two Phillips chips, which are easy to find, and a controller chip, which is not so easy to find. Fortunately Rado over on the vcfed forum reverse engineered it and released it publicly: http://www.vcfed.org/forum/showthread.p ... rade/page3

[Sorgelig]

added

[chimaera]

oh that was fast!
I made a few quick tests with Secret of Monkey Island, Times of Lore and EcoQuest and it works well so far and sounds great!
I really appreciate it, thank you alot!

[Newsdee]

Nice addition! I forgot this card existed... and it turns out it's the same chip as the SAM Coupe... which we already have on MiSTer
I found this nice oscilloscope view of the Monkey Island music, showing off the square waves: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fqv9zKRH1xQ

[thorr]

If you still have that sound card you could probably get the chips on ebay or aliexpress for cheap.

I no longer have it. My card only needed the 2 chips as far as I know. At the time, I didn't know where to buy them or maybe they were too expensive, I don't remember.

[thorr]

added

Thank you very much! Unfortunately, so far I haven't had any luck getting it to work. I tried it with The Secret of Monkey Island and The Colonel's Bequest. The Secret of Monkey Island worked fine when I started it with Adlib, but not Game Blaster. The game starts but there is no sound. This is the same as with The Colonel's Bequest. Maybe I need to exclude a memory range in my EMM386.exe line in the config.sys or something. Edit: I tried having nothing at all in my config.sys and it did not help.

As a side note, I am having to turn off direct video and use a scaler to get it to work at all on my SVGA CRT monitor. Cache 43 was the last version that worked with my monitor.

[SuperBabyHix]

Awesome, thanks so much Sorg.

[bbond007]

Thank you very much! Unfortunately, so far I haven't had any luck getting it to work. I tried it with The Secret of Monkey Island and The Colonel's Bequest...

Did you enable it in the OSD under "Audio and Video"?

[Schyz]

added

Just tested it with Monkey Island 1 and not sure if it's just me but I feel like it sounds better than the Dosbox emulation, warmer, not so harsh, although OPL2/3 also sounds warmer to me on MiSTer. I'm really impressed with the results, I cannot believe you just implemented a new sound card in 4 days.

[thorr]

Did you enable it in the OSD under "Audio and Video"?

No, lol. Sometimes it is the simple things in life! Thanks! It sounds wonderful!

[thorr]

For anyone wanting a good CMS demo, install the Colonel's Bequest game from Sierra and just run it and watch it. The whole intro at the beginning lasts awhile and plays lots of songs. You will need to search for the Colonel's Bequest Fingerprints image on google to start the game. Can't wait to start enjoying this!

[ash2fpga]

Nice addition! I forgot this card existed... and it turns out it's the same chip as the SAM Coupe... which we already have on MiSTer
I found this nice oscilloscope view of the Monkey Island music, showing off the square waves: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fqv9zKRH1xQ

Nice! It sounds somewhere between the PC speaker and the OPL2 (Adlib/SB). Monkey Island is one case where I remember being actually a bit disappointed in the upgrade to a sound card back in the day. I still like the chiptune/keygen sound of the PC speaker version.

[Newsdee]

Nice! It sounds somewhere between the PC speaker and the OPL2 (Adlib/SB). Monkey Island is one case where I remember being actually a bit disappointed in the upgrade to a sound card back in the day. I still like the chiptune/keygen sound of the PC speaker version.

Happened to me with other songs... it's a case of our brains interpreting a song in a way that is different than what the original author intended, I guess... so when they "upgrade" the music, it ends up quite different than what we thought.

To be fair, a few instruments can make a massive difference. Dune on PC sounds totally different if you pick a random soundfont vs. one more optimized for games like Fatboy.

[jrronimo]

Thanks for adding this Sorgelig! I love the sound of a CMS setup -- it's more chiptuney, like a really advanced GameBoy or something. Much appreciated!