RGB Issue with Direct Video

[bluesmoke]

I recently got an RGB CRT and I'm having an issue getting the mister to cooperate with it. I have a VGA to RGB BNC cable, if I use the Analog I/O board VGA output I get a correct image on the CRT. My usual set up is a CRT connected via S-Video so I was hoping to do dual output using HDMI to VGA adapter to the RGB CRT. I set up a secondary ini file to utilize for this set up and it's doing some odd things. I copied my main ini file to keep the S-Video out functioning then I changed the following lines

hdmi_limited=2 ; 1 - use limited (16..235) color range over HDMI
; 2 - use limited (16..255) color range over HDMI, for VGA converters.
direct_video=1 ; 1 - enable core video timing over HDMI, use only with VGA converters.

When I switch to this alt ini I get a normally functioning mister menu, color on the background image, menu looks the same. When I load a core the screen turns a reddish/brown hue. I have no idea what is causing this or how to fix it. I attached two photos to show what I'm talking about. I tested NES, SNES, GEN, N64, PS1 and a few arcade cores, all the same result. The only core I could get to function correctly was an old N64 build from January which didn't have S-Video compatibility so my S-Video CRT was showing a b&w image while the RGB was showing correctly.

I'm hoping this is simple and I'm just an idiot. Sorry for the low quality photos, it was late and I was tired from hours of messing around with the setup.

rgb mister menu.jpeg (45.35 KiB) Viewed 17739 times

rgb mister core.jpeg (69.43 KiB) Viewed 17739 times

[dickhardpill]

Adding Core-specific Settings

It is possible to specify different settings for different cores; for example, you may prefer to use integer scaling just for the Game Boy Advance core so that you don't need any video filters for smooth scrolling. Simply add a section at the end of the INI file with the core name in brackets and paste your different settings below there, like so:

do you have any core specific settings?

[bluesmoke]

Adding Core-specific Settings

It is possible to specify different settings for different cores; for example, you may prefer to use integer scaling just for the Game Boy Advance core so that you don't need any video filters for smooth scrolling. Simply add a section at the end of the INI file with the core name in brackets and paste your different settings below there, like so:

do you have any core specific settings?

No they are all just whatever the default setting is.

[dickhardpill]

I would possibly try adding some core specific options. I don't know that this will fix the problem but it is the first thing I would try.

[bluesmoke]

I would possibly try adding some core specific options. I don't know that this will fix the problem but it is the first thing I would try.

I'm not entirely sure what I should even specify in the core specific options to fix the problem as I don't really understand what is causing it to do this

[aberu]

https://github.com/MiSTer-devel/Main_Mi ... Ter.ini#L6 - try changing this line in your MiSTer.ini to s-video if you are using an s-video adapter, ypbpr if you are using ypbpr, etc...

https://github.com/MiSTer-devel/Main_Mi ... Ter.ini#L8 - what happens when you enable this line?

https://github.com/MiSTer-devel/Main_Mi ... er.ini#L34 - what happens when you enable this line?

etc...

[bluesmoke]

https://github.com/MiSTer-devel/Main_Mi ... Ter.ini#L6 - try changing this line in your MiSTer.ini to s-video if you are using an s-video adapter, ypbpr if you are using ypbpr, etc...

https://github.com/MiSTer-devel/Main_Mi ... Ter.ini#L8 - what happens when you enable this line?

https://github.com/MiSTer-devel/Main_Mi ... er.ini#L34 - what happens when you enable this line?

etc...

My S-video output is fine and that is what it's set at. I'm trying to run this second CRT out of the HDMI with direct video to VGA>RGB

If I set the ini to run as RGB out of the VGA port and plug the VGA>RGB cable to the CRT it works fine

The issue I'm having is out of the HDMI as direct video to VGA>RGB I'm getting normal image from the mister on it's main menu until I load a core and then it turns that weird red brown color once the core is loaded.

[aberu]

What kind of direct video adapter are you using?

[bluesmoke]

What kind of direct video adapter are you using?

This is what I'm using

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00ZMV7RL2

[SirBeers]

I am using the same VGA adapter and mine is doing this (genesis core):

IMG_4120.jpg (96.19 KiB) Viewed 17329 times

I don't think the hdmi_limited setting can fix that...

[aberu]

The rankie adapter is listed in our mkdocs site as being known to not work correctly with MiSTer.

https://mister-devel.github.io/MkDocs_M ... rect-video

[SirBeers]

Ah, ok I figured it either it works or it doesn't. There is another thread where people had luck with this one.

I'll try the Moread one and see since it isn't on either list.

[bluesmoke]

Yeah I bought that one bc people said it worked. The ones listed on the mister are all imports which will take weeks to get here. Any one have a US store with VGA adaptors that work? I imagine that not everyone is buying only those out of Germany

[SirBeers]

Same result with the Moread one.

IMG_4125.jpg (102.51 KiB) Viewed 17102 times

[dickhardpill]

I have a moread that requires limited hdmi but at least 1 review suggested some of them don't properly. They seem to sell multiple products or revisions of the same product that have various internals, some of which work great and some have problems. Once I received my analog IO I never hooked it up via direct video ever again.

[SirBeers]

My analog IO doesn't work with my monitor for some reason. No output at all.

Anyway, I found a setting in the INI file and adjusted it to this:
video_gain_offset=1,-0.02,1.3,0.04,1,-0.1

And HDMI limited=2.

That dialed-in the picture pretty well and both the Moread and Rankie look good.

[thorr]

Do you have the old or the new Moread? If you pop it open and the little chip inside is "CS5210" you have the new one. If it is the "AG6200" you have the old one. I suggest getting the new one. See the other thread on this topic for more details. viewtopic.php?t=7151

[SirBeers]

yeah i'm over there on that thread too. Just popped it open today and it was the CS5210.

Moread_Chip.jpg (460.01 KiB) Viewed 16954 times

[thorr]

yeah i'm over there on that thread too. Just popped it open today and it was the CS5210.

Cool. Don't use hdmi_limited=2. You should be able to use 0 or 1. Have you hooked anything else up to the CRT? My guess is the CRT itself is the issue and you need to adjust it properly in the service menu and/or maybe inside the chassis. Be sure to first set everything back to normal settings in your MiSTer.ini.

[SirBeers]

Thanks!

I felt there was a bit too much contrast on HDMI_limited=1 but I can try it again. My gen1 genesis works just fine with the CRT via rgb. Ironically I thought the green level was way too high with the og hardware which is the whole reason I wanted to see how it looked via MiSTer. Right now I would say the MiSter looks better thanks to the video_gain_offset option being able to calibrate the channels separately.

[bluesmoke]

Alright so my issue is definitely with MiSTer and not the HDMI to VGA adapter.

If I have the following settings in my ini
vga_mode=svideo
composite_sync=1
direct_video=1

I get proper image on my s-video connection but any core that supports s-video I get incorrect colors out of the direct video output. My blacks are red, my whites are yellow/green. Here's two cores w/ s-video support using the above settings.

TV on left is connected to mister via RGB w/ HDMI to VGA adapter. TV on right is VGA output of analog I/O board to vga to s-video adapter

PS1 svideo dvideo.jpeg (25.01 KiB) Viewed 16716 times

gen svideo dvideo.jpeg (45.75 KiB) Viewed 16716 times

Here is the mister menu and N64 core from January before s-video support was added, notice that the direct video output is working correctly

N64 core no svideo support.jpeg (35.18 KiB) Viewed 16716 times

menu svideo dvideo.jpeg (43.78 KiB) Viewed 16716 times

Now if I switch to an ini file that has the following settings the direct video via HDMI works perfectly with all cores that support RGB, including the ones above that I tested.

vga_mode=rgb
composite_sync=1
direct_video=1

SNES rgb dvideo.jpeg (44.65 KiB) Viewed 16716 times

So for some reason when a core is outputting to s-video it can't output to the hdmi > vga > rgb

Anyone have any ideas of something in the ini that I could set to make it so both outputs work properly simultaneously or is it just a limitation of the mister?

[thorr]

It appears that vga_mode affects both direct video and the analog I/O board at the same time. I don't see an option in the ini to control them separately. It probably won't help, but you could try:
vga_mode=rgb
ypbpr=1 ; set to 1 for YPbPr on VGA output. (obsolete. see vga_mode)

and see what happens.

[bluesmoke]

It appears that vga_mode affects both direct video and the analog I/O board at the same time. I don't see an option in the ini to control them separately. It probably won't help, but you could try:
vga_mode=rgb
ypbpr=1 ; set to 1 for YPbPr on VGA output. (obsolete. see vga_mode)

and see what happens.

Thanks for the suggestion, unfortunately no change for me.

[KennyL]

You can't set vga_mode to rgb and svideo at the same time. I think you need to set vga_mode=rgb and run through rgb to svideo converter, not y/c adapter.

[SirBeers]

Hey guys I'm just trying to understand this.

I bought the Rankie, the MoRead and now I have the Icy Box HDMI adaptor and on each one the green channel is crushed in the blacks and I know I'm not getting the same results as the rest of you. The Icy Box does have the most "detail" (signal?) in the green channel so that tracks as far as it being the better of the 3...

Just wondering if anybody has any clues where I can look to troubleshoot. I have an OG genesis with an RGB cable that I made from a serial cable and that works much better - and actually the green channel is too strong IMO. So I don't think it's the monitor, but what do I know?

Messing with the video gain/offset can help with the balance but then you compare that to composite or s-video and you see what you're missing as far as the color being correct.

So why are the RGB channels not balanced out by default? I don't get it.

[mapf]

I bought the Rankie, the MoRead and now I have the Icy Box HDMI adaptor and on each one the green channel is crushed in the blacks and I know I'm not getting the same results as the rest of you. The Icy Box does have the most "detail" (signal?) in the green channel so that tracks as far as it being the better of the 3...

If the problem is consistent across multiple adapters and your TV set works fine with other RGB sources, please check your cable. VGA monitors and TVs have different voltage levels for the sync signals and you need a resistor to drop the VGA levels that are delivered by the adapters. You can measure the resistance of the sync line in your cable using a simple multimeter. One often sees recommendations for 470 Ohms, so you should find a similar resistance.

Driving a TV with high sync levels can (but does not have to) lead to all kind of weirdness. Among my CRTs, a Sony set is very particular about sync levels and shows wrong colors when driven too high.