I noticed all of the vector-based games look weird, especially Asteroids and Deluxe.
The lines don't look smooth and are really jagged, more so than, let's say, MAME, for example.
Is this fixable with settings or is it on a to-do list to fix?
Thanks!
I am guessing they won't look correct unless you have a vector display.
MAME looks somewhat better due to the far higher screen resolution. If you've already set the highest resolution your display supports for the core in question, that's as good as it's going to get (trying to reproduce vector on a raster display).
MAME's vector shaders look really good, and with some tweaks to the Post-Processing Options to create a custom ini, they look better than anything outside of a real vector display. At 4k resolution, on an OLED (for the blacks) they are super sharp. But, even on OLED displays, the vectors still miss the real glow, and brightness, of a proper vector display.
On Mister, you are never going to get anywhere near what vectors are supposed to look like. What would be awesome would be for someone with cash, lots of cash, to make modern vector displays for home use with Mister, or PC emulation - never going to happen, but one can dream.
Ruleset wrote: ↑Tue Apr 02, 2024 11:05 amI made some modifications to the Vectrex core to get XYZ output from the VGA port for an oscilloscope.
Here is my github fork with some more details and pictures:
https://github.com/Jokippo/Vectrex_MiSTer_XYZ
I included Gerbers and STLs so you can make your own adapter if you have some electronics knowledge.
Videos of it in action:
https://youtu.be/6vOpB0jy7xM
Lightpen:
https://youtube.com/shorts/xjpVvosmDCY
This is pretty cool
The vectors are drawn by the FPGA, which is much more tricky to do in a good looking way (anti-aliasing, glow, additive blending etc.) than doing it on a CPU.
Bristles wrote: ↑Thu Jun 20, 2024 8:16 pmMAME's vector shaders look really good, and with some tweaks to the Post-Processing Options to create a custom ini, they look better than anything outside of a real vector display. At 4k resolution, on an OLED (for the blacks) they are super sharp. But, even on OLED displays, the vectors still miss the real glow, and brightness, of a proper vector display.
On Mister, you are never going to get anywhere near what vectors are supposed to look like. What would be awesome would be for someone with cash, lots of cash, to make modern vector displays for home use with Mister, or PC emulation - never going to happen, but one can dream.
I did exactly this tweaking and have Star Wars running on a 4k monitor, this thing is so close to the real Vector graphics that it is eery. Funny thing is, that Mister theoretically could pull off the same, just no one bothered to work on the API in this area to get the graphics right!
So we are stuck with low res lines instead of having a proper plasma emulation which means you need a diffused high res line with some brighter colors in the connecting dots. which fade over time. None of those filters really would be computing intensive!
What API would that be? There is no API. Like I said, the vectors are being drawn by the FPGA, by all means, feel free to look at the code and improve it.
Vector display cores actually run at 480p resolution, this makes them unusable on 15khz CRT televisions without using scaler.
When time permits, it would make sense to split the cores and support higer resolution on HDMI and separate cores for CRT.
I keep wishing (that is all I can do to help lol) that vector games on the MiSTer could have a 480i 60Hz option, and that Star Wars and Tempest would be added. This would maximize the resolution on 15KHz CRT's. Meanwhile I can use GroovyMiSTer with some special ini settings to get it to work at 60Hz.
One of the probably unknown issues with supporting vector games in general is the native refresh rate is actually really low compared to NTSC raster based CRT's typically, at least with Star Wars. Getting it to draw at 60Hz requires some extra magic besides translating a vector line to a bunch of raster lines, and there will always be a bit of lag even on a CRT, unless it is in native vector format.
It is possible to convert regular CRT's to vector CRT's. I have seen a couple of Youtube videos on it. It would be cool if MiSTer would support it if you had the display capable of it. It's such a niche use case though that I am not sure it is worth the time to get it working. Most people won't convert a CRT to vector.
Even 480i would still look fairly poor, as there isn't the resolution there to draw crisp vectors, without having that staircase jagged edges effect. Even anti-aliased at 480i it would still look poor. Real vectors are pure straight lines without ANY jagged edges.
Here's a real Tempest vector arcade machine converted to run on a CGA 640x480 Monitor, and when he zooms in it doesn't look good at all.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDNesKDTqpI
Even at Mister's max resolution, without any pixel doubling, vectors won't look all that good. 4k resolution is good, but I would have a guess that 8k resolution would be the perfect res.
Yeah, all of that is understood. The point I am trying to get to is the maximum possible quality on a 15KHz screen. This is the screen I have in the Star Wars themed arcade cabinet that I built, and naturally, I want to play Star Wars on it in the maximum possible quality, whatever that may be. It is certainly good enough to play the game using GroovyMiSTer, but I am hoping for a dedicated 480i-capable core on the MiSTer some day, along with 480i for all the other high resolution cores including Asteroids, Battlezone, etc. and ao486 and Mac Plus.
I, too, understand your dilemma. I have many cabs here, but with LCD screens because they're cheap Aracde1up cabs that are too weak to hold a CRT.
Perhaps, and this wouldn't be cheap, but look out for a Vectrex, on eBay ? Some do come up for fairly good money, at times.
I have a PiTrex for my Vectrex, that allows me to play emulated vector arcade games using a Raspberry Pi, and the Vectrex for the display. Battlezone, Star Wars, Asteroids, etc... have never looked better, despite the mono display of the Vectrex.
I wish I had the balls to try this,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LNXurZhrZ_Y
Not only do the insides of CRTs scare the crap out of me, but I don't have the steady hands to do the conversion myself. Shame there isn't a paid service offered by anyone who could do the conversion. I bet they would make a lot of money.
^ I agree. I've got a couple of Vectrexes always setup, one that I just leave the PiTrex in all the time and another that I use for original game carts, homebrews, multicarts, and flash carts. (I could use the PiTrex in either one or the carts in either one, I just find it easy to leave the PiTrex in one of them.)
I love playing vector arcade games using MAME on a good flat panel with the right vector settings. Even so (and it's probably nostalgia from playing vector arcade games 40+ years ago) there's something special about playing on a real vector capable CRT. For those of us without room for original vector arcade machines, a Vectrex with PiTrex is a great alternative.
Some CRTs are easily rewound at the Yoke for vector use.
I looked into it but haven't done it myself...yet
https://hackaday.com/2014/09/18/buildin ... ontroller/
https://hackaday.io/project/2871-build- ... or-monitor
Stay safe, you might find an retired TV repair person who could do it locally.
