AmigaVision 2024.10.10 Released with Internet Support + MiSTer CD32 Launcher, 182 Game Updates

[niallquinn]

69% PAL-only is one bold claim

If some historical accuracy is a goal, I would consider why there are an epic ton of 320x200 games on the Amiga... an NTSC resolution. And then I'd consider how by definition the games library cannot therefore be 69% PAL-only.

I'd also take a look at Amiga history 1985-1990 with special attention both to gaming and non-gaming hardware and software alike. There's some monumental stuff that never made it to PAL-land then or ever.

If I remember righthly, the conversion of Space Harrier was crap on the Amiga, whereas the USA release, was totally full screen, so you're probably right.
But out Amiga lastesd longer than yours, ask David Pleasance, it was only Amiga UK keeping it afloat. And his talk about the CD64 is great stuff.

[bfbiii]

Believe me I ADORE PAL Amiga. From 1990 on I could walk into bookstores in the states and grab nearly a dozen Amiga magazines from the shelves, very few from North American origin. It was heaven. And most of them were truly fun. I remember Amiga World as one of the only remaining US pickups. Less about fun, but equally loved by me. But PAL is beloved by this user without a single caveat.

[rhester72]

a) You are conflating asset resolution and screen resolution. They are not the same. In fact, several PAL titles have PAL-sized assets for title screens but the game proper uses 320x200 assets.

b) There are indeed PAL games that will crash or otherwise malfunction on NTSC, yet use 320x200 assets.

c) The games in AmigaVision that are presented as PAL even though they had NTSC releases is because the original release of the game was in PAL territories, and thus is the most 'correct' from the developer's standpoint (i.e. most true to their intended vision). Lots of after-the-fact NTSC releases suffered not being properly scaled from a speed perspective (a fantastic example is the PowerMonger title tune) and thus not presented as the designers intended.

[bfbiii]

I promise you I would gladly admit if I didn't know a) b) and c) extremely well. No one thinks any use of 320x200 means developers were only targeting NTSC. That would be absolute bananas. Given, just... facts. I was simply making the point that when someone obviously overstates that 69% of the game library is PAL only... well, come on now, plenty of games DO still work in NTSC because of their resolution, of course plenty crash, have separate NTSC releases, some good releases, some bad, etc.

[rhester72]

I'm not certain anyone made the claim that 69% of the library is "PAL only", but if you make the claim in terms of region-of-origin, I'd say that's pretty close (largely owing to US-based studios moving on in 1992 after the slow collapse of Commodore while Europe championed on) and thus warrants being presented that way.

[bfbiii]

Lemmings 2 is not the big problem. I'ts just one example of the image-cutting problem and characters like Dan Akroid in "Coneheads."

Those 31% referred NTSC almost all have their pal version. But the other 69% PAL doesn't have an NTSC version.
The Commodore Amiga that I remember was enjoyed with CRT TVs and mostly PAL. But of course everyone is free to design their own memories or enjoy it as they wish.

The claim is "But the other 69% PAL doesn't have an NTSC version." I was able to establish that that is not true by glancing at a single letter in the alphabet and naming games with an NTSC release that are displayed in PAL by AmigaVision. Note: I think AmigaVision's reasoning is absolutely sound. I'm sure no one wants to read this long thread, but to be clear, that is where this came from. @danytyler made a claim that I first characterized as "bold" and later bothered to look into for one letter of the alphabet, because it seemed easily disproved.

[Chris23235]

Lemmings 2 is not the big problem. I'ts just one example of the image-cutting problem and characters like Dan Akroid in "Coneheads."

Those 31% referred NTSC almost all have their pal version. But the other 69% PAL doesn't have an NTSC version.
The Commodore Amiga that I remember was enjoyed with CRT TVs and mostly PAL. But of course everyone is free to design their own memories or enjoy it as they wish.

The claim is "But the other 69% PAL doesn't have an NTSC version." I was able to establish that that is not true by glancing at a single letter in the alphabet and naming games with an NTSC release that are displayed in PAL by AmigaVision. Note: I think AmigaVision's reasoning is absolutely sound. I'm sure no one wants to read this long thread, but to be clear, that is where this came from. @danytyler made a claim that I first characterized as "bold" and later bothered to look into for one letter of the alphabet, because it seemed easily disproved.

Maybe I am completely missing the point here, but all the games you listed were developed in Europe and were clearly made with PAL machines in mind. Why do you least these to proof your point?

[bfbiii]

Definitely missing my point.

1) There is nothing wrong with AmigaVision's way of doing this. What they have done makes sense and is consistent.
2) @danytyler said every single game that AmigaVision has set to PAL never had an NTSC release. Those games I listed had literal NTSC releases TOO. Of course they are PAL developers, and displayed in PAL in Amigavison In order to check whether what he said was true, I was required to find games from PAL developers, and see if they released those games officially as NTSC games too. It's easy to pick those out because they even have NTSC WHDLoad installs, so they stick out quite easily.

[rhester72]

Legitimate question to stir debate:

Origin releases (Ultima, et al) were originally US games by a US development company, then ported to Amiga variously by both US and UK developers (depending on the individual game).

They are presented in PAL in AmigaVision with a bottom black bar, but I might argue that given the original audience was US PC users, perhaps Origin games should (with no exceptions that I can see) be reclassed as NTSC in AmigaVision both for proper aspect and speed?

[limi]

Absolutely a legitimate question. File a bug in the issue tracker, and I will look at it? Most PC ports are classified as NTSC (since they are 320×200), maybe we missed the Ultima series?

[rhester72]

Absolutely a legitimate question. File a bug in the issue tracker, and I will look at it? Most PC ports are classified as NTSC (since they are 320×200), maybe we missed the Ultima series?

I want to go through the full Origin library to try to make a thoughtful recommendation. (For example, I'd actually argue that the OCS version of Wing Commander should be NTSC, yet the CD32 version should be PAL as the latter machine never really made it into NTSC territories and thus isn't how people actually saw the game.)

Give me a few days. =)