The State of DACs for the MiSTer and Direct Video

[AmintaMister]

You may need to place an HDMI audio extractor between the HDMI port and the VGA adaptor to achieve this.

You know of any HDMI audio extractor that works with Direct Video, or what I have to look for to find compatible ones?

Actually, a good portion of them will support digital audio and it’s just not documented. You just need a 3.5mm to optical/toslink/etc adapter (like the ones that you use with the HDFury 3)

You happen to know any especific model that supports digital audio even if not documented?

I've recently switched my analog MiSTer setup to an "hybrid" one: I've bought this board (https://ultimatemister.com/product/mister-av-pro/) and I've setup the system to work with dual SDRAM; I've attached to the Hdmi port an Hdmi to Vga compatible dongle, set direct_video=1 and "composite_sync=1" on mister.ini, attached a vga to scart cable, attached the scart to my Trinitron CRT and... perfect! All it's perfectly working!

But what about the audio? Obviously, switching to dual SDRAM configuration, I can't get no more the audio from TOS Link on AV board: so I've tried to use an Hdmi extractor (spoiler: I've tried 3 different models!) and when I boot the Mister, no more picture.

BUT, If i unlink Hdmi extractor, boot Mister and launch a gore (eg: Parodius with Snes core) and THEN, without switching off,I link again the Hdmi audio extractor... BOOM! I have both a picture and the audio.

So the problem is that with the Hdmi audio extractor I can't see the Menu on boot (but the menu is there: I can "blind launch" a core and... the picture shows immediately on!), why this? What alternative can I use to have dual ram + CRT output + digital audio (that I send on my DAC...)?

[madmalkav]

And these happens with all 3 different HDMI extractors you tested?

[AmintaMister]

And these happens with all 3 different HDMI extractors you tested?

Yes

[AmintaMister]

But the problem is only on boot, if I launch a GAME from the Mister Remote app on my smartphone, video and audio suddenly both work... Going back to main menu from game, again black screen on my Crt...

[madmalkav]

I'm completely clueless about this. If noone hre in the forum have any ideas, I would suggest you to join the Discord server and ask on the #help channel.

[akeley]

Instead of going for extractors, maybe try looking for DV dongle with built in audio output. The one I'm using sometimes has it and the sound is perfect. The downside is it's the AG6200 based one so the image can look darker (though this also affects games differently). But maybe you could find one on the list from page 1 of this thread which has audio out.

[AmintaMister]

Instead of going for extractors, maybe try looking for DV dongle with built in audio output. The one I'm using sometimes has it and the sound is perfect. The downside is it's the AG6200 based one so the image can look darker (though this also affects games differently). But maybe you could find one on the list from page 1 of this thread which has audio out.

I've ordered this one: https://it.aliexpress.com/item/10050038 ... pt=glo2ita

I would also be willing to spend for the FuryHD3, but users have pointed out the "blur text problem"...

[madmalkav]

Instead of going for extractors, maybe try looking for DV dongle with built in audio output. The one I'm using sometimes has it and the sound is perfect. The downside is it's the AG6200 based one so the image can look darker (though this also affects games differently). But maybe you could find one on the list from page 1 of this thread which has audio out.

Which one are you using? I haven't found many that support digital audio output.

I've ordered this one: https://it.aliexpress.com/item/10050038 ... pt=glo2ita

Please tell us if it works well, also if you can figure out which IC it uses. I was looking at that one too and also at https://es.aliexpress.com/item/1005003034041889.html

[akeley]

Which one are you using? I haven't found many that support digital audio output.

Logilink: https://www.reichelt.com/de/en/hdmi-to- ... 89592.html

But as stated in that other thread, TOS audio should work if you have the new AV board.

[madmalkav]

But if I'm going to buy a HDMI to VGA adapter, I'll rather buy one that supports digital audio and save me getting an AV board.

That is, if I can find an HDMI to VGA adapter with digital audio that works with Mister It's being harder than I expected.

[akeley]

If you can spend a bit more, buying AV board is really a better option. DV dongles really are a bit of a lottery. Some have inferior image quality, the better ones might have no audio, and/or sometimes just not work at all with your CRT.

[madmalkav]

But you can't use the AV board with dual ram for CRT output anyway...

[akeley]

Okay, you can't. But let's remember dual ram is only useful for Jaguar, and to lesser extent Saturn core.

So if you want to display Jaguar on a CRT you will have to buy a DV adapter. But if you have AV board then you can use TOS link from it and not worry about audio from DV. At least that's how I understand it from reading stuff around here, I don't have one yet so I can't test it myself.

Another option is to buy this DV dongle I linked to (or similar one with audio). The image might be a bit darker, but it still looks pretty good.

[vanfanel]

Which one are you using? I haven't found many that support digital audio output.

Logilink: https://www.reichelt.com/de/en/hdmi-to- ... 89592.html

But as stated in that other thread, TOS audio should work if you have the new AV board.

Do you happen to know where can I get that adaptor? It seems to be currently out of stock everywhere

[akeley]

Do you happen to know where can I get that adaptor? It seems to be currently out of stock everywhere

I'm currently in Poland till the end of year and I can see it for sale on our local "ebay". If you're really desperate and willing to pay for it up front, I could probably buy it and send to you (if you're in Europe).

But I'd advise to check other options first. And compare photos from Kuro's analysis to see if you’re ok with the somewhat inferior AG6200 image.

[ackmangogo]

Found a EP94Z1E based DAC works fine.
https://www.amazon.com/GXMRHWY-High-Def ... PZR8R?th=1

[madmalkav]

Anyone has access to an EP94Z1E datasheet? I'm tempted to buy an adapter like the one in the previous message and see if I can modify it to get digital audio output

[misterrocks]

Is there really no HDMI to VGA DAC on the market with video performance as good as the analog I/O? It sounds like HD Fury 3 would be as good except for the ringing / blurry text problem. How about HD Fury 4?

[lomdar67]

You may need to place an HDMI audio extractor between the HDMI port and the VGA adaptor to achieve this.

You know of any HDMI audio extractor that works with Direct Video, or what I have to look for to find compatible ones?

Actually, a good portion of them will support digital audio and it’s just not documented. You just need a 3.5mm to optical/toslink/etc adapter (like the ones that you use with the HDFury 3)

You happen to know any especific model that supports digital audio even if not documented?

I've recently switched my analog MiSTer setup to an "hybrid" one: I've bought this board (https://ultimatemister.com/product/mister-av-pro/) and I've setup the system to work with dual SDRAM; I've attached to the Hdmi port an Hdmi to Vga compatible dongle, set direct_video=1 and "composite_sync=1" on mister.ini, attached a vga to scart cable, attached the scart to my Trinitron CRT and... perfect! All it's perfectly working!

But what about the audio? Obviously, switching to dual SDRAM configuration, I can't get no more the audio from TOS Link on AV board: so I've tried to use an Hdmi extractor (spoiler: I've tried 3 different models!) and when I boot the Mister, no more picture.

BUT, If i unlink Hdmi extractor, boot Mister and launch a gore (eg: Parodius with Snes core) and THEN, without switching off,I link again the Hdmi audio extractor... BOOM! I have both a picture and the audio.

So the problem is that with the Hdmi audio extractor I can't see the Menu on boot (but the menu is there: I can "blind launch" a core and... the picture shows immediately on!), why this? What alternative can I use to have dual ram + CRT output + digital audio (that I send on my DAC...)?

Maybe I'm missing something, but why didn't you buy the HDMI to SCART cable: https://ultimatemister.com/product/mist ... ect-video/

Works perfectly fine with audio...

[AmintaMister]

You know of any HDMI audio extractor that works with Direct Video, or what I have to look for to find compatible ones?

You happen to know any especific model that supports digital audio even if not documented?

I've recently switched my analog MiSTer setup to an "hybrid" one: I've bought this board (https://ultimatemister.com/product/mister-av-pro/) and I've setup the system to work with dual SDRAM; I've attached to the Hdmi port an Hdmi to Vga compatible dongle, set direct_video=1 and "composite_sync=1" on mister.ini, attached a vga to scart cable, attached the scart to my Trinitron CRT and... perfect! All it's perfectly working!

But what about the audio? Obviously, switching to dual SDRAM configuration, I can't get no more the audio from TOS Link on AV board: so I've tried to use an Hdmi extractor (spoiler: I've tried 3 different models!) and when I boot the Mister, no more picture.

BUT, If i unlink Hdmi extractor, boot Mister and launch a gore (eg: Parodius with Snes core) and THEN, without switching off,I link again the Hdmi audio extractor... BOOM! I have both a picture and the audio.

So the problem is that with the Hdmi audio extractor I can't see the Menu on boot (but the menu is there: I can "blind launch" a core and... the picture shows immediately on!), why this? What alternative can I use to have dual ram + CRT output + digital audio (that I send on my DAC...)?

Maybe I'm missing something, but why didn't you buy the HDMI to SCART cable: https://ultimatemister.com/product/mist ... ect-video/

Works perfectly fine with audio...

Because I want to direct digital audio to my DAC and decode it with my high fidelity DAC and not have it converted from a in-built DAC, the difference is asbsolutely audible...

[AmintaMister]

OK, so https://it.aliexpress.com/item/10050038 ... pt=glo2ita it's arrived.

Result: black screen with whatsoever combination of cables / settings.

I think it's a loss of time to tinkering with these chinese tinks, our MiSTers deserve quality, so I think the only quality-solutions left for Direct Video are FuryHD (maybe the 4 version) and the internal DAC of MiSTer Addons Saturn connector solution: https://misteraddons.com/products/miste ... s=11&_ss=c

IMG_4604.jpeg (1.91 MiB) Viewed 7262 times

IMG_4603.jpeg (1.74 MiB) Viewed 7262 times

IMG_4602.jpeg (1.93 MiB) Viewed 7262 times

[madmalkav]

Are you sending it back? If not, any chance you open it to see what IC they use on this device?

PS: by the way, have you tried it with an standard HDMI source and a VGA monitor (not TV) to test the device is OK and you didn't receive a bad one?

[Atohmdiy]

And these happens with all 3 different HDMI extractors you tested?

Yes

You need to stop buying chinese garbage. I have a lindy hdmi extractor i use to output toslink and it worked fine with the mister.

You need to know what you are buying at least. You bought a garbage scaler not a dac.

[misterrocks]

For digital audio out, why not use the Toslink interface which is built in to both versions of the MiSTer?

[AmintaMister]

For digital audio out, why not use the Toslink interface which is built in to both versions of the MiSTer?

Yes sure it’s the best solution, but by then I had ordered this product and wanted to test it…

[misterrocks]

I spent a couple days carefully testing all of my HDMI-VGA DACs with my MiSTer -> S-Video active adapter -> Sony consumer CRT. Here are my results:

HDFury 1080p - stable image in menus, image visible every other second in games
HDFury 1080P 2 - no image
HDFury III - no image
HDFury Nano - image visible every other second in menus and games
Tendak - no image
Vention (AG6200) - works perfectly

I tried hdmi_limited 0/1/2 with each, I tried with and without external power on HDFury 1080P and 1080P 2 and III, and I tried every combination of dip switch settings I could think of on HDFury III but none of that had any effect on the results.

I expected a lot more out of the HDFury devices. Is there more likely an incompatibility with the S-Video adapter or the CRT?

[madmalkav]

For digital audio out, why not use the Toslink interface which is built in to both versions of the MiSTer?

I haven't bought my Mister yet (hoping to get one for Christmas ) but as far as I know, Mister doesn't have any built in Toslink interface, it is provided by the IO boards.

My idea is, if I'm going to buy and external device for the Direct Video support, I would as well try to buy one that supports digital audio. But for the moment MisterAddons DirectIO board seems to be the only option. Would be nice if there was more alternatives.

[misterrocks]

Yes but digital IO and analog IO both have Toslink output.

[GradiusV]

Is 256MB really important? Any cores use it ?

[kitty666cats]

OK, so https://it.aliexpress.com/item/10050038 ... pt=glo2ita it's arrived.

Result: black screen with whatsoever combination of cables / settings.

I think it's a loss of time to tinkering with these chinese tinks, our MiSTers deserve quality, so I think the only quality-solutions left for Direct Video are FuryHD (maybe the 4 version) and the internal DAC of MiSTer Addons Saturn connector solution: https://misteraddons.com/products/miste ... s=11&_ss=c

IMG_4604.jpeg
IMG_4603.jpeg
IMG_4602.jpeg

That’s a scaler, of course it isn’t going to work… it says right on the shell

https://www.aliexpress.us/item/22558006 ... 4itemAdapt

^ These things have an Explore EP94Z3 / EP94Z3E. Basically the same as the EP94Z1E only newer and better.

I definitely like mine. The HDMI passthrough is nice, too. Might be able to find one on AliEx for a few $ less, too