MiSTer FPGA Forum

If you're slow reading from disk, try using CHD images...the compression reduces transfer time, which may help.

rhester72 wrote: ↑Sat Dec 17, 2022 12:59 pm

If you're slow reading from disk, try using CHD images...the compression reduces transfer time, which may help.

According to @FPGAzumSpass for the latency of the USB is better to use cue/bin, is a problem of latency more that transfer times (probably everything that we connect to the MISTer is going to be faster than a PSX CD reader).

I have done some preliminary testing with FFVII and the Airbuster fight (it can get some points with stutter).

• HDD : I get stutter with NTFS and exFAT independently of using chd or cue/bin. I might try different models but probably is unavoidable .
• SD: First, I have learned that the secondary sd slot doesn't work for console cores Using the internal SD works flawlessly with both chd and cue/bin (no surprises here). But also using a SD connected with an USB adaptor seems to work fine. I tested it with exFAT but didn't try Star Ocean 2 to see if there's a difference there.

I can't test until January an SSD but probably it will be similar to the SD connected via USB. Could be a good way to get 1Tb for some CD games.

How does loading games with CIFS/SMB compare to SD and USB storage in terms of latency? Would loading games from a SSD in a local network be much slower than one connected directly trough USB?

Good network connection is likely lower latency than USB.

Atleast we had several reports about HDD with USB not working great, but i have a very good experience even with NAS with 5400rpm HDDs connected over 100mbit cable.

is there a place we can state bugs that need to be fixed?

Wipeout 3 US starts with audio only in right channel,

as soon as the race starts if you press start and go to audio setup, it fixes it and left channel is also available. The thing is I have to do this in every race.

you can report issues here:
https://github.com/MiSTer-devel/PSX_MiSTer/issues

But i also see them if you post here

edit: it's fixed now, so you don't have to create a github issue
You can check out the newest testbuild in the MiSTer discord or wait for the unstable build to appear.

In case somebody is interested what the issue was:

The SPU in PSX does allow to set up a envelope function for each of the left and right outputs of the 24 sound channels.
Additionally, it also allows for to set up a envelope function on the main volume that is applied after all sound channels are combined together with reverb and CD audio.
So in total there are 25 "channels" with left+right each, so 50 envelope functions.

The two(left+right) for the main volume had a bug in the core, so they didn't work all and would cause random volumes, most likely either mute or full volume.
I fixed the whole envelope functionality for the main volume now and all should be fine.

Why did this not happen in any game until now? Well, envelope on the main volume is rather useless. You would probably set it up for a single channel only.
Now why did Wipeout 3 use it?
Well it doesn't....or at least that's what the developers thought they did.
In fact the game has a bug that writes garbage to the envelope configure register for the left output of the main volume only.
This bug leads to the volume being increased every 30 seconds by 1/8192, or 0.01%
But as the volume already starts at 99% to begin with and clamps at 100%, the bug in the game was probably never noticed.

Thanks, a quick fix like this I wans't expecting!

Also I have a question: in silent hill when the cg runs (intro specially) there are several red rectangles appearing and disappearing in the image, I didnt have a psx back then to try to remember now if this was normal.

Is this normal in psx or is there any option in mister menu on video to make them not appear?

I play on a 21' sony wega trinitron via component.

I haven't heard of anything like this and the game was often played now, so i guess this would have been reported.

You probably need to take a picture or at least describe this better.

FPGAzumSpass wrote: ↑Mon Feb 20, 2023 2:51 pm

I haven't heard of anything like this and the game was often played now, so i guess this would have been reported.

You probably need to take a picture or at least describe this better.

When taking screenshot using a keyboard, it doesnt show any of this red part.

But taking pictures with my smartphone, that's how I see CG in psx games, also wipeout 3 the same red thingy blocks also appears.

during gameplay looks fine

This looks like filtering artifacts. Have you tried disabling all filters?

pbsk8 wrote: ↑Mon Feb 20, 2023 6:56 pm

When taking screenshot using a keyboard, it doesnt show any of this red part.

But taking pictures with my smartphone, that's how I see CG in psx games, also wipeout 3 the same red thingy blocks also appears.

So the issue is after the color generation from the core...
Could be related to the FMV being 24bit, but the analog IO board can only do 18bit and something goes wrong there?

Sorry, i don't know and i cannot test, have no CRT.
Maybe some CRT user can try and see what happens there.

Chris23235 wrote: ↑Mon Feb 20, 2023 7:24 pm

This looks like filtering artifacts. Have you tried disabling all filters?

I have a CRT so all filters are off.

If you use a crt could you test and see if this happens to you as well?

pbsk8 wrote: ↑Mon Feb 20, 2023 6:56 pm

When taking screenshot using a keyboard, it doesnt show any of this red part.

But taking pictures with my smartphone, that's how I see CG in psx games, also wipeout 3 the same red thingy blocks also appears.

during gameplay looks fine

Thank you for posting this. I was going to ask about this also. I'm getting red blocks on pretty much all FMVs. I'm using PSXYC with Misteraddons active Y/C board connected via composite to 13" consumer Sony Trinitron. All video options in the core are set to default. No filters are used.

Several people in the mister discord tried to reproduce with a CRT, using rgb or composite, no one could see it.

Not sure where the issue is, but if you want to resolve it, i recommend to join the mister discord psx channel.
There are often people around who will help with live debugging of the issue

edit:

just to report back for those that also hit problems like that: the problem of pbsk8 was identified in the mister discord as a bad analog board where likely solder problems exist.
The 240p testsuite of SNES revealed that red and blue are swapped on the darker colors.
The IO board was bought from AliExpress.

Here is my testing result I posted in Discord.

I'm using Misteraddons IO board v6.1 VGA to Misteraddons active Y/C board composite to Panasonic low end plasma tv.

SNESYC 240p Test Suite color bars. Looks fine. Any off looking color is due to my phone camera.

PSXYC Silent Hill. Problem with not just red blocks but there are also green and blue blocks on different scenes. Svideo also looks like this.

PSXYC Silent Hill via hdmi direct video to Y/C board composite. Looks fine.

IO board VGA to plasma tv running regular PSX core is good.

For comparison, here is regular PSX core on IO board VGA to Antonio Villena adapter composite. Looks fine.

Based on your comments above it unfortunately looks like an Io board related issue.

KennyL wrote: ↑Wed Feb 22, 2023 8:02 am

Here is my testing result I posted in Discord.

I'm using Misteraddons IO board v6.1 VGA to Misteraddons active Y/C board composite to Panasonic low end plasma tv.

SNESYC 240p Test Suite color bars. Looks fine. Any off looking color is due to my phone camera.

PSXYC Silent Hill. Problem with not just red blocks but there are also green and blue blocks on different scenes. Svideo also looks like this.

PSXYC Silent Hill via hdmi direct video to Y/C board composite. Looks fine.

IO board VGA to plasma tv running regular PSX core is good.

For comparison, here is regular PSX core on IO board VGA to Antonio Villena adapter composite. Looks fine.

BTW, this problem was solved with Mikes' new PSXYC update.

I tried a vga-vga cable on a lcd monitor and the red blocks dont appear

I will try to buy another cable (vga-component) but since I dont find any with brand it will have to be another generic one for now.

So apparently I still have problem with PSX FMV after comparing with real PSX. I'm using Misteraddons active YC board and IO board connected to 13" consumer Trinitron. I tested latest PSX and older PSXYC builds and they all look the same. Edit: settings are all default. No filters.

Here is Tales of Phantasia intro FMV on real PSX composite.

YC board composite via IO board is very blocky and posterized. Posterization is not as bad in person though.

YC board composite via direct video is much much better but some blockiness, lower left on this picture.

Antonia Villena board composite via IO board is not as bad as YC+IO board.

Even near black parts are pretty smooth on real PSX.

YC board composite via IO Board

YC board composite via direct video

Antonia Villena board composite

is this a new version of that YC core? Or the same one that looked like it was fixed?

pbsk8 wrote: ↑Sat Mar 04, 2023 12:46 pm

is this a new version of that YC core? Or the same one that looked like it was fixed?

I didn't test that broken one. I tried on PSXYC older 2/14 build, 2/23 build with Mikes' fix, and unstable PSX main 3/1 build.

From what I understand talking to a friend of mine that is very familiar with PSX (I am not an expert on this particular thing, nor have I tested my YC adapter with it yet), FMV on PSX is one of the few areas where you can really see the difference between the limited bit depth analog output of the MiSTer analog board vs. the higher bit depth output of the Direct Video option. So the posterization difference makes sense in that regard.

Just wanted to add that piece of info, I have no knowledge of the other aspects. :)

limi wrote: ↑Sat Mar 04, 2023 6:16 pm

From what I understand talking to a friend of mine that is very familiar with PSX (I am not an expert on this particular thing, nor have I tested my YC adapter with it yet), FMV on PSX is one of the few areas where you can really see the difference between the limited bit depth analog output of the MiSTer analog board vs. the higher bit depth output of the Direct Video option. So the posterization difference makes sense in that regard.

Just wanted to add that piece of info, I have no knowledge of the other aspects.

Ah that makes a lot of sense. I'd like to see if it's problem with my setup or not. If it's indeed physical bandwidth issue then that'd be too bad. Turning on 24bit dithering option helps with posterization but still not as smooth as real console. I guess I could live with that if the issue can't be addressed.

Is Duckstation good enough to use as visual comparison? Anyway here are couple of direct screenshot comparisons. I boosted brightness to show difference in block shapes. They're way less noticeable in person. Sorry if they're still hard to see. I'm running latest Duckstation on Win11 in software mode with all enhancements off.

Duckstation. Near black roll off points looks similar to real PSX.

PSX core unstable 3/1 build. More steps of dark gradient if you look below "OF" and top right.

Duckstation. Block patterns on back of cape are different from PSX core. No idea which is correct unless someone with HDMI modded PSX can verify.

PSX core. Block patterns on back of cape are very similar to what I see on YC+IO board. Block separations in clouds are much softer and nice. Again, don't know which one is correct.

I have a similar setup and preferences to yours, so I'm curious about this topic. My results look much the same as yours with Tales of Phantasia. However, Misteraddons has tweeted that the current analog out options are lacking (IO Board levels that are too high and low, 18-bit vs 24-bit concerns, unreliable Direct Video dongle quality with different RGB ranges, etc...), and is working on a new solution because of it and some other concerns like dual SDRAM capability. Now that the YC stuff has been merged to main, hopefully it won't be too much longer until he has a solution. In the meantime, I switched to Direct Video and am pleased enough with the results with the dongles I've tried. I don't find PSX via the IO board to be acceptable.

Aside from FMV's, an interesting place to test the IO board "24-bit for VGA" option is this area on the bottom floor of the library in Castlevania Symphony of the Night. The background is dithered and I really enjoy the 24-bit option without dithering on direct video. However, from the IO+YC board with "24-bit for VGA" also enabled, the background has this strange "crawling" behavior. The dithering crawls for a bit, then stops, then starts again. I believe my other MiSTer exhibits some different sorts of shimmering artifacts in other areas. This is what drove me to give up on the IO board for PSX, at least.

Vicosku wrote: ↑Sun Mar 05, 2023 3:17 am

I have a similar setup and preferences to yours, so I'm curious about this topic. My results look much the same as yours with Tales of Phantasia. However, Misteraddons has tweeted that the current analog out options are lacking (IO Board levels that are too high and low, 18-bit vs 24-bit concerns, unreliable Direct Video dongle quality with different RGB ranges, etc...), and is working on a new solution because of it and some other concerns like dual SDRAM capability. Now that the YC stuff has been merged to main, hopefully it won't be too much longer until he has a solution. In the meantime, I switched to Direct Video and am pleased enough with the results with the dongles I've tried. I don't find PSX via the IO board to be acceptable.

Aside from FMV's, an interesting place to test the IO board "24-bit for VGA" option is this area on the bottom floor of the library in Castlevania Symphony of the Night. The background is dithered and I really enjoy the 24-bit option without dithering on direct video. However, from the IO+YC board with "24-bit for VGA" also enabled, the background has this strange "crawling" behavior. The dithering crawls for a bit, then stops, then starts again. I believe my other MiSTer exhibits some different sorts of shimmering artifacts in other areas. This is what drove me to give up on the IO board for PSX, at least.

Thanks for testing and confirming it's not just my problem. It really does looks like it's IO board limitation. Real bummer. I've seem your other IO board pictures and I sure wish I didn't see this SotN posts I won't be able to unsee....

Haha, sorry about that! I really enjoy it with direct video, no dithering, and 24bit color in svideo though.

I tried this 24bit dithering option for vga and the image got all red grainy

I will get a new board then and see it if it fixes the problem.

Ok so I tried IO board VGA with pc crt and PSX FMVs are just as posterized. FF7 intro is super clear too see. Triple confirmed that analogue IO board VGA not great for PSX core. Thank you everyone who pointed out to me that it's analogue IO board issue. I just had to keep confirming on difference devices because I do just not want buy new IO board and sink more money into this money pit.

Anyway, direct video is good enough but still not gonna be exactly the same as/a bit worse than real console. Really difficult for me to use this because of my setup. FPGAzumSpass explained to me in discord that even HDMI is not exactly the same, though it's really super marginal.

pbsk8 wrote: ↑Sun Mar 05, 2023 12:21 pm

I will get a new board then and see it if it fixes the problem.

I don't know if anyone is selling 24bit analogue IO board right now. As Vicosku said, Porkchopexpress has it but don't know when it's gonna be released.

KennyL wrote: ↑Mon Mar 06, 2023 7:52 am

Ok so I tried IO board VGA with pc crt and PSX FMVs are just as posterized. FF7 intro is super clear too see. Triple confirmed that analogue IO board VGA not great for PSX core. Thank you everyone who pointed out to me that it's analogue IO board issue. I just had to keep confirming on difference devices because I do just not want buy new IO board and sink more money into this money pit.

Anyway, direct video is good enough but still not gonna be exactly the same as/a bit worse than real console. Really difficult for me to use this because of my setup. FPGAzumSpass explained to me in discord that even HDMI is not exactly the same, though it's really super marginal.

pbsk8 wrote: ↑Sun Mar 05, 2023 12:21 pm

I will get a new board then and see it if it fixes the problem.

I don't know if anyone is selling 24bit analogue IO board right now. As Vicosku said, Porkchopexpress has it but don't know when it's gonna be released.

is there a specific revision of mister io board for 24bit? I thought only buying a normal IO v6.1 would fix the issue for me to play on a trinitron crt. Since my v6.0 shows the issue on color bars.

with your io board v6.1 did you try vga to component?