NES core colour changes in v201102

[pizaCat]

There is a little switch on the component converter. Make sure it is set to the component position. Use RCA cables with the converter, not the VGA cable.
Here are my ini settings that work with direct_video=1:
direct_video=1
forced_scandoubler=0
hdmi_limited=1
vsync_adjust=2
ypbpr=0
composite_sync=0
vga_scaler=0
video_mode=640,30,60,70,240,4,4,14,12587
refresh_min=57
refresh_max=62
vscale_mode=0
vscale_border=0
fb_size=0
fb_terminal=1
dvi_mode=0

Yes I am using RCA cables and the switch is set to YPbPr. I tried your settings, and got the same very nice picture in the menu and the same flashing once per second in the Genesis core. I believe I got the same results because when direct_video=1 these settings are bypassed:
vsync_adjust, vga_scaler, video_mode, refresh_min, refresh_max, vscale_mode, vscale_border

For direct_video=0, I have an alternate ini file with these changes:
direct_video=0
vga_scaler=1
vscale_mode=1
video_mode= 1280, 170, 140,244,240, 2, 0, 22, 29020 ; Best for ao486 12-8-2020
;refresh_min=57
;refresh_max=62

These settings give a vertically scrolling image that is distorted horizontally, even in the menu core.

For my HDMI to Svideo converter, I use this:
hdmi_limited=2
composite_sync=1
vscale_mode=0
video_mode=1440,242,140,98,1080,0,1,47,128208 ; 4:3

and another I sometimes use is this:
video_mode= 640, 16, 96,48,480, 10, 2, 32, 25152 ; 480i test - works pretty good with Svideo adapter and works with J-Tech but seeing double

These settings give fully distorted images, but I understand that the first is high res and are meant to be downscaled. My TV does support 480i (tested with a dvd player via component out) but I thought the MiSTer does not?

Where can I learn more about video mode values and how to make my own?

edit: The PCB looks like an (updated?) version of the one posted by elvis. Here are some pictures I took:

E8VT75B.jpeg (1.18 MiB) Viewed 2806 times

X1L73dx.jpeg (688.75 KiB) Viewed 2806 times

whPggun.jpeg (1.48 MiB) Viewed 2806 times

5QWm3fx.jpeg (1.35 MiB) Viewed 2806 times

KD2uggm.jpeg (850.49 KiB) Viewed 2806 times

GbyvAG6.jpeg (487.69 KiB) Viewed 2806 times

jyhlacZ.png (264.79 KiB) Viewed 2806 times

[thorr]

I would return the component converter and say it doesn't work.
When you use the HDMI to VGA cable with the SOG mod, does the Genesis core have the flashing issue?
Regarding the 1440x1080 timings and 480i, I am using an external HDMI to SVideo converter that converts everything to 480i. The MiSTer unfortunately does not support outputting 480i, but the last timings I listed was an attempt to make it work at 480i.

Regarding learning, there are a couple of video timings calculators websites. I put in the resolution I want and adjust the numbers until the KHz clock signal matches the number that works with CRT TV's (around 15KHz, but I don't remember the exact number) and the refresh rate is close to 59.94 Hz. The front and back porch numbers adjust the positioning. Lots of experimentation is the best way to learn. I taught myself. You first need a reliable HDMI to component solution though. Hopefully when I get the new converter in July, it will work and I can recommend that one to people.

I will try to remember to post pictures of my working component converter internals just as a FYI to people as well.

[pizaCat]

When you use the HDMI to VGA cable with the SOG mod, does the Genesis core have the flashing issue?

No, it syncs instantly, and works very well even when loading a ROM or when a game changes video mode back and forth, as long as it is not in EU (Pal) mode.

Regarding learning, there are a couple of video timings calculators websites. I put in the resolution I want and adjust the numbers until the KHz clock signal matches the number that works with CRT TV's (around 15KHz, but I don't remember the exact number) and the refresh rate is close to 59.94 Hz. The front and back porch numbers adjust the positioning. Lots of experimentation is the best way to learn. I taught myself. You first need a reliable HDMI to component solution though. Hopefully when I get the new converter in July, it will work and I can recommend that one to people.

Thanks for the tips, I will read up on the subject and try out timing calculators.

The enjoyGadgets converter works very well in direct_video mode in the menu core via component RCA cables. If only I could get the same image quality via direct_video off. Is there any documentation on that? I mean, what would be the video_mode that matches what the menu core outputs natively via direct_video when menu_pal=0 ? I want to try and find that info and configure a video_mode that matches.

I don't really understand how all these commercial devices could output a compatible signal via component for all brands and models of NTSC TVs, but all the video modes I tried don't work on my TV. How can we not have a video_mode and scaler setting that will work on all NTSC TVs? (with lag, and stuttering + bad scaling depending on the core, sure, but a stable image). Is that only due to using the HDMI output to convert to analog, or is it a limitation of the scaler? Does the io board have the same issues?

I will try to remember to post pictures of my working component converter internals just as a FYI to people as well.

For sure, every bit of extra detail helps. It's very hard to find the exact same brand and model, especially with generic low cost devices. The specs are always copy pasted and lack the details we need!

[thorr]

If the HDMI to VGA cable is working for you, then everything I posted above should apply to that solution. You could try those video timings (that have 240 for the vertical resolution) and they might work for you. You should be able to just use that and do everything you want to do. If the HDMI to VGA is working for you, what more are you looking to gain from the enjoyGadgets converter? The only thing I can think of is it has a switch on it if you wanted to hook up a VGA monitor. It might look better too. How does the menu screen compare between the enjoyGadgets and the HDMI to VGA cable? Are the colors and sharpness exactly the same? My fully working converter looks slightly different than my other converters and looks beautiful.

Regarding the menu timings, this is like deja vu for me. I went through the same thing with one of my previous HDMI to component devices working with the menu but not working with other things. paulbnl provided the menu timings to me and they still would not work when not using direct video. So, I would suspect the same would be for you if you tried the menu timings. Read through this thread if you want to read about my journey: viewtopic.php?f=33&t=1471
The menu timings are in that thread and they are video_mode=640,30,60,70,240,4,4,14,12587 which are the same ones I provided above as it turns out in the first section, but they don't get used because direct video is on. If I turn off direct video, the menu timings work fine with my fully working converter. I don't really care for them though because as I recall they have too much overscan cutting off part of the image.

[pizaCat]

If the HDMI to VGA is working for you, what more are you looking to gain from the enjoyGadgets converter? The only thing I can think of is it has a switch on it if you wanted to hook up a VGA monitor. It might look better too.

I agree, and I will probably return the enjoyGadgets converter, unless I find a good way to use it and keep it as backup (since the AG6200 chip I have is cracked). I figured it can also help out anyone looking for a solution, since it is readily available on Amazon.

The good HDMI to VGA I got was given to me by a friend, and I was having a hard time buying a good one. It works with all cores except a few Pal ones. Vertical cores work but I won't be rotating a 32" CRT to play them, so I'll move to the HDTV for those!

How does the menu screen compare between the enjoyGadgets and the HDMI to VGA cable? Are the colors and sharpness exactly the same? My fully working converter looks slightly different than my other converters and looks beautiful.

The enjoyGadgets converter has teh same nice image in the menu, but I did notice more overscan than the AG6200. Another thing I noticed, is that if I cycle through the background images, the "static noise" background looks like it changes the screen resolution compared to the backgrounds that are pictures. This is also true on the AG6200 HDMI to VGA adapter.

Regarding the menu timings, this is like deja vu for me. I went through the same thing with one of my previous HDMI to component devices working with the menu but not working with other things. paulbnl provided the menu timings to me and they still would not work when not using direct video. So, I would suspect the same would be for you if you tried the menu timings. Read through this thread if you want to read about my journey: viewtopic.php?f=33&t=1471
The menu timings are in that thread and they are video_mode=640,30,60,70,240,4,4,14,12587 which are the same ones I provided above as it turns out in the first section, but they don't get used because direct video is on. If I turn off direct video, the menu timings work fine with my fully working converter. I don't really care for them though because as I recall they have too much overscan cutting off part of the image.

I will re-read through it now that I have a working direct_video adapter, and try the video modes on it.

[thorr]

Are you sure it is cracked? When I look at your photo, to me it looks like a black line on top of the chip. Here is my HDMI to VGA adapter and most likely it would work just as well but I don't want to mod it because I use it the way it is sometimes: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01MS611LJ I was thinking there is probably a way to make an adapter with male and female VGA connectors on it with the SOG mod inside. I was also thinking my VGA to component cable would have the SOG mod because it only has three component cables on it and no sync cables, but it didn't work for me.

[pizaCat]

Are you sure it is cracked? When I look at your photo, to me it looks like a black line on top of the chip.

Yes it is actually cracked, I felt it with my nail.

Here is my HDMI to VGA adapter and most likely it would work just as well but I don't want to mod it because I use it the way it is sometimes: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01MS611LJ

I looked for that Moread adapter on amazon.ca and it is available to import. Did you open it to verify that it has the same AG6200 chip? If it is then I'll order one for peace of mind.

I was thinking there is probably a way to make an adapter with male and female VGA connectors on it with the SOG mod inside. I was also thinking my VGA to component cable would have the SOG mod because it only has three component cables on it and no sync cables, but it didn't work for me.

The SOG in a VGA male to VGA female custom adapter is a great idea.

As for the cable, it assumes that the signal on the VGA out is a component signal and already has SOG, just like the IO board does with the built in SOG switch. I guess that it can't be done via HDMI to VGA, so the mix in of the sync with SOG mod is a workaround and the HSync pin 13 is used as composite sync with the setting "composite_sync=1".

[thorr]

I looked for that Moread adapter on amazon.ca and it is available to import. Did you open it to verify that it has the same AG6200 chip? If it is then I'll order one for peace of mind.

It definitely is. I didn't open it, but I found it from a youtube video talking about it with the MiSTer. It worked perfectly with my VGA CRT monitor with the MiSTer before the monitor died.

The SOG in a VGA male to VGA female custom adapter is a great idea.

One of these: https://www.amazon.com/Willwin-Connecto ... B074V5KW9V
and a sacrificed male VGA cable with the end cut off should do the trick quite nicely assuming the above has all the needed pins in it. If not, there are other options that have all the pins available like this one: https://www.amazon.com/SinLoon-Solderle ... B07P6R918T

As for the cable, it assumes that the signal on the VGA out is a component signal and already has SOG, just like the IO board does with the built in SOG switch. I guess that it can't be done via HDMI to VGA, so the mix in of the sync with SOG mod is a workaround and the HSync pin 13 is used as composite sync with the setting "composite_sync=1".

That makes sense. Thanks for the explanation!

Also, I forgot to mention earlier that I use the Tendak SVideo converter for rotated vertical arcade cores at 480i on my TV and it works pretty well giving you 480 lines of resolution instead of 240. Hopefully someday the MiSTer will support 480i with the scaler.

[thorr]

FYI - I got the ao486 core working really good with these settings. They allow the refresh rate to be set to Variable in the ao486 core which is preferred so Second Reality works all the way through. I just added this to the bottom of my mister.ini so it only activates this for the ao486 core and everything else uses direct_video=1.

[ao486]
; Set it to "Variable" in the ao486 core instead of 60Hz
direct_video=0
vga_scaler=1
vsync_adjust=1
vscale_mode=3
video_mode= 1280, 170, 140,244,240, 2, 0, 22, 29020 ; Best for ao486

[thorr]

I just made a new custom mode and here is how I did it (I didn't end up using it though):
Go Here: https://www.epanorama.net/faq/vga2rgb/calc.html
You want the Horizontal Sync Frequency to be as close to 15.73 KHz as possible and the vertical sync to be as close to 59.94 Hz as possible when you click the Calculate button. They don't have to be exact.
Plug in the resolution you want with the vertical always being 240.
Put in values for the other spots (don't have real good advice here other than start with known values from another working resolution)
Click calculate.
Change the Pixel Clock Frequency until you get close to 15.73 KHz and 59.94 Hz. Then play with the Sync Pulse values until you get it as close as you can.
Once you have it, try it and see how it looks.
There are buttons to move the image around on the website, and you can see what it does to the numbers and see how it works. Keep playing with it until you get it the way you want it. If it is too wide or too narrow, play with the front and back porch values. This part is tricky and I can't remember how to do it at the moment.