MiSTer FPGA Forum

Ok no problem, if it's better to have the ngcd core then

Mr BIG

KOF95 and 99 ast=heaven

I would love that CD quality audio too. NeoGeo has been my favorite/most played core so far. Really enjoying exploring this library because I didn't have good access to it growing up.

Threepwood wrote: ↑Sun Jun 07, 2020 2:22 pm

Mr^O^BIG wrote: ↑Sun Jun 07, 2020 7:54 am I spoke with furrtek and I got an idea, instead of doing the ngcd core that it's not really interesting because of the poor graphics, we can implants the ngcd sounds on the aes/mvs rom, it's big works of referencing but it's possible

Mr BIG

By far not all games have received cuts in the graphics and some Neo Geo CD games have extra content and scenes. It is not about the audio only.

It is a creative idea but, because of this and historical accuracy, it is not a good idea. They were two different consoles after all.

Exactly, the older games (and smaller) do not have graphical cuts, they are intact. SNK started to do these minimal cuts when games became too big in size, as a resource to reduce the loading times. As the older games are the most nostalgic for me, I’m glad to have a top loader and a CDZ, love them. A NGCD core is very welcomed to the FPGA world. The bonus features, redbook remastered audio and exclusive games are worth it.

Sorgelig wrote: ↑Wed May 27, 2020 8:31 pm CD versions have very limited space for graphics. 1MB IIRC. While carts used up to 96MB. So many CD versions had crippled in-game graphics.
NeoGeo is about huge ROMs with massive graphics. CD kills it all.

I'm curious about that, CD could hold up to 650mb of data why did they have to cripple games?

data from CD must streamed/loaded to RAM and to cut down costs only 7mb of Ram is available on neo geo cd console

Or if you have a toploader like me,buy a neo geo cd sdloader,and play everything from a micro sd,and i have rev E neo geo cd sdloader,so i kept my cddrive,works fantastic.
I also wanted a neo geo cd core,we will see what the future brings.

I would rather see console arcade ports like megaPlay, CoJag or Nintendo Play Choice rather than obscure early CD systems with long load times and few exclusive games. If given the choice between a NeoGeo game or the CD version who really would want the CD version. Maybe if you are under the influence and are entertained by load screens you might want the CD version. The NeoGeo is know for it's good animation and fast paced gameplay and that is ruined by limited memory and broken up gameplay by load times.

I would love to see Neo Geo CD core added to MiSTer! Obscure systems are a perfect fit for this platform. Between the existing work already done to get NGCD working on NeoSD as well as Furrtek's own SD Loader I would think this could be a low hanging fruit for implementation.

mcj wrote: ↑Sat May 30, 2020 9:44 pm
All of that said, it really would be quite an endeavor and assuredly not an easy one. I do hope to play some Neo Turf Masters CD on the MiSTer someday!

Ah, I see you are a man of culture as well. That extra course in Neo Turf Masters CD is what made me reach this thread

redsteakraw wrote: ↑Sun Aug 02, 2020 2:09 pm I would rather see console arcade ports like megaPlay, CoJag or Nintendo Play Choice rather than obscure early CD systems with long load times and few exclusive games. If given the choice between a NeoGeo game or the CD version who really would want the CD version. Maybe if you are under the influence and are entertained by load screens you might want the CD version. The NeoGeo is know for it's good animation and fast paced gameplay and that is ruined by limited memory and broken up gameplay by load times.

Why does everyone go on about load times on NCD? They really weren't that bad!

Tried loading a PS4 game lately?

retrorepair wrote: ↑Mon Aug 03, 2020 8:28 am

redsteakraw wrote: ↑Sun Aug 02, 2020 2:09 pm I would rather see console arcade ports like megaPlay, CoJag or Nintendo Play Choice rather than obscure early CD systems with long load times and few exclusive games. If given the choice between a NeoGeo game or the CD version who really would want the CD version. Maybe if you are under the influence and are entertained by load screens you might want the CD version. The NeoGeo is know for it's good animation and fast paced gameplay and that is ruined by limited memory and broken up gameplay by load times.

Why does everyone go on about load times on NCD? They really weren't that bad!

Tried loading a PS4 game lately?

It is based on what they where compared to. When you have the same game on a cart with near instant loading and more frames of animation waiting a minute in-between matches is excruciating. The NeoGeo CD was a stop gap attempt to bring NeoGeo to the masses without having to buy $200 carts. I understand why they did what they did but if all else is equal you know you would choose the NeoGeo version rather than the CD version. The core we have now has pretty much the whole library in it's best form. This isn't like the PC Engine CD or Sega CD where there are tones of unique and exclusive games for the system or the better versions of the games on CD. Furthermore this is all about retro gaming and what the PS4 does is irrelevant. I can't stand modern console gaming, when you have multi gigabyte updates and installs before you can play your game on disk you are better off just playing on the PC.

redsteakraw wrote: ↑Mon Aug 03, 2020 11:28 am

retrorepair wrote: ↑Mon Aug 03, 2020 8:28 am

redsteakraw wrote: ↑Sun Aug 02, 2020 2:09 pm I would rather see console arcade ports like megaPlay, CoJag or Nintendo Play Choice rather than obscure early CD systems with long load times and few exclusive games. If given the choice between a NeoGeo game or the CD version who really would want the CD version. Maybe if you are under the influence and are entertained by load screens you might want the CD version. The NeoGeo is know for it's good animation and fast paced gameplay and that is ruined by limited memory and broken up gameplay by load times.

Why does everyone go on about load times on NCD? They really weren't that bad!

Tried loading a PS4 game lately?

It is based on what they where compared to. When you have the same game on a cart with near instant loading and more frames of animation waiting a minute in-between matches is excruciating. The NeoGeo CD was a stop gap attempt to bring NeoGeo to the masses without having to buy $200 carts. I understand why they did what they did but if all else is equal you know you would choose the NeoGeo version rather than the CD version. The core we have now has pretty much the whole library in it's best form. This isn't like the PC Engine CD or Sega CD where there are tones of unique and exclusive games for the system or the better versions of the games on CD. Furthermore this is all about retro gaming and what the PS4 does is irrelevant. I can't stand modern console gaming, when you have multi gigabyte updates and installs before you can play your game on disk you are better off just playing on the PC.

Well of course CDs will take longer to load than a cart. They aren't loaded at all, they are memory mapped. Apples and oranges. I just think the loading aspect of the NGCD is massively overplayed is all and not nearly as bad as people make out.

Of course the whole library (bar a few unique titles) is cloned from it's big brother but as stated above, a lot of the better titles have remixed soundtracks unique to the CD, art galleries and lots of other nice bonuses. The graphical cuts downs are barely noticeable (honestly I've never seen them and would need them to be pointed out).

Other than just playing ROMZ I think MiSTer is a fantastic preservation effort so you can't just write off a system because you don't think it's worth preserving.

Besides all that, love it or hate it, without the NGCD you'd never have those awesome controllers with the clicky d-pad!

The NGCD load times really aren't that bad at all, have been playing Metal Slug on mine lately and it's fine. Playing Monster Hunter on the PS4 is way-way-way worse.

This is one of the ”yet to be cores” (hopefully) I’m most stoked about. I love the enhanced soundtracks and the extras that aren’t in the AES/MVS versions. But even on my CDZ the loadtimes on the later titles are a bit too long for my taste.

2nd that, would also love to see a Neo Geo CD-core on the MiSTer. I remember Furrtek, the great mind behind the NG-core, Neo CD SD loader and loads of other great things, already had some progress a while ago (https://twitter.com/furrtek/status/1118 ... 71137?s=19). Keeping my fingers crossed.

i love the neogeo cd as well those sweet sounds tracks are amazing would love a neogeo cd core as well it would completed neogeo on the mister well theres the handheld just saying wink wink.

amerika wrote: ↑Wed May 27, 2020 5:12 pm

Sorgelig wrote: ↑Wed May 27, 2020 4:39 pm ... and last, lol
Too much work for a single exclusive game.

But who knows.. may be it will happen in the future.

Crossed Swords 2 was ported later to work on AES/MVS, however. All or most games that were exclusive or had exclusive content were ported to the TO NeoSD Pro (AES and MVS).

It was not a full port - more of a hack. MVS/AES can not play back redbook audio, so the chiptunes from Crossed Swords 1 was substituted.

He was actually working on it. I think it's in the current neogeo core not implemented.
IDK the progress. maybe it will be finished one day.
I think furtek is working on the ODE for the neocd at the moment.
It's really a few games game exclusives. the other games are basically the same but with loading times.

Wouldn't be possible to implement faster loadings? Or skip loads altogether.

Seriously, in either case the arranged soundtracks alone are worth the effort of playing it with loading times. I had a NGCD with serveral games, sold it to buy MVS carts/boards, and I regret it so much.

Except for bigger/larger games (Kof starting from 97 onwards, Real Bout Special & 2, Samsho from the third one onwards, Ninja Masters and Art of Fighting 3), all other games loadings were not that long. Take the earlier King of Fighters. It loaded the entire 3 on 3 match.

Metal Slug games had some neat extras, like a survival mode and time attack modes with ranking (Combat School). And of course, there's Samsho RPG.

AOF 2 arranged sound track was F* awesome

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rp6Q0Dm ... Ef&index=9

Absolutely 2nd this - while it's probably not your first choice for titles like AOF3 and the more recent KOFs, a big number of the older titles are CD > cartridge for the arranged score alone, e.g. Last Resort which has a brilliant score on the CD version, and loads the whole game a single time at startup into memory.

Being an ignorant paesant, just out of curiosity: how much from the work done for NeoGeo core and NeoGeo CD ODE could a developer benefit in order to work on a Neo Geo CD core?

pedroTFP wrote: ↑Mon Apr 12, 2021 1:15 pm Being an ignorant paesant, just out of curiosity: how much from the work done for NeoGeo core and NeoGeo CD ODE could a developer benefit in order to work on a Neo Geo CD core?

Yes the leg work for all the chips has been done, and minus the CD drive and supporting hardware the Neo Geo CD is nearly identical to the AES and MVS hardware.

The real question is getting all of those parts together in the right order and working with each other. It's not just the chips, but every linkage between each chip has to be coded in VDHL to mimick the original motherboard and make sure it runs like the original does.
Who ever does this will have to work on a Neo Geo CD still from the ground up, and they have to be motivated to do so.
Everyone who shown has the skills to do so don't feel their time is well used to get 1 game working.

What you are asking for is someone to put together a 10,000 piece puzzle with no picture, pieces can physically fit in multiple places incorrectly, an unknown number of pieces missing, and no one actually cares to put this particular puzzle together.

That is it, all that is were missing from the Neo geo CD, just the one game.
And believe me you aren't missing much.

darksakul wrote: ↑Sun Apr 18, 2021 1:27 pm

That is it, all that is were missing from the Neo geo CD, just the one game.
And believe me you aren't missing much.

But it’s not just ”that one game” now is it. Quite a few of the CD-games are enhanced in one way or another. Turfmasters has the Scotland course, Metal Slug has the combat school, Real bout Special has Blue Mary’s music video. Not to mention the cd-soundtrack that’s included in a lot of the titles.

If people stopped saying that it’s just one game and instead looked at all the extra goodies the Neo CD has maybe the good people developing cores would be more keen on taking this project on?

I don't think that's persuasive enough to get the developers to switch from the other cores they are currently working on.
But that's not the only way for it to get done. The question is, is it persuasive enough to get you (or other people supporting this) to join in and learn about development ?

DaveGeorge wrote: ↑Sun Apr 18, 2021 11:54 pm

darksakul wrote: ↑Sun Apr 18, 2021 1:27 pm

That is it, all that is were missing from the Neo geo CD, just the one game.
And believe me you aren't missing much.

But it’s not just ”that one game” now is it. Quite a few of the CD-games are enhanced in one way or another. Turfmasters has the Scotland course, Metal Slug has the combat school, Real bout Special has Blue Mary’s music video. Not to mention the cd-soundtrack that’s included in a lot of the titles.

Except to be honest, even among the hard core Neo geo Fans, no one cares about the Scotland Course, Combat School or Blue Mary's music video.
I think the Scotland course is awful, same for the combat school. It's like saying we need to support The Turbo Grafx Cd version of Alterbeast as it a better sound track despite it being the worst port of Alterbeast, even the NES port is a much better game.

Were not losing out on Neo Turf Masters or Metal Slug, Real bout Special don't benefit from a forgettable music video.

You want the core, you learn Verilog and VHDL and write it. Stop expecting others to do it for you.

To each of his own I guess. Me, I love playing on both my AES and CDZ and think the extras on the discs make it worthwile from time to time.

I think you misundestand. I am in no way expecting anyone to do anything for me. My CDZ works just fine (but as everyone knows lasers do get worn out). But if anyone ever decides to make the core I’m not going to object and saying that it’s unnecessary because it’s ”just one game”.

I'm sure that somebody will eventually get around to creating such a core, but for the moment, the developers I speak with are interested in creating either new features or new machine cores which have little or no overlap with existing cores.

I would say the demand for this core is low right now people are looking forward to the 32bit arcade / consoles being worked on. SegaCD and TurboCD had more of a compelling reason than this one. This has always been seen as a budget option for the NeoGeo and people always would prefer to have the real NeoGeo cart if they could afford one. Seeing how the current NeoGeo core is amazing and there are no load times once loaded up having a CD system and load wait times would be just annoying. For preservation purposes I can see the need for this but as a priority I would not put this pretty high. CoJag is a more important system IMHO.

darksakul wrote: ↑Mon Apr 19, 2021 10:51 am

DaveGeorge wrote: ↑Sun Apr 18, 2021 11:54 pm

darksakul wrote: ↑Sun Apr 18, 2021 1:27 pm

That is it, all that is were missing from the Neo geo CD, just the one game.
And believe me you aren't missing much.

But it’s not just ”that one game” now is it. Quite a few of the CD-games are enhanced in one way or another. Turfmasters has the Scotland course, Metal Slug has the combat school, Real bout Special has Blue Mary’s music video. Not to mention the cd-soundtrack that’s included in a lot of the titles.

Except to be honest, even among the hard core Neo geo Fans, no one cares about the Scotland Course, Combat School or Blue Mary's music video.
I think the Scotland course is awful, same for the combat school. It's like saying we need to support The Turbo Grafx Cd version of Alterbeast as it a better sound track despite it being the worst port of Alterbeast, even the NES port is a much better game.

Were not losing out on Neo Turf Masters or Metal Slug, Real bout Special don't benefit from a forgettable music video.

You want the core, you learn Verilog and VHDL and write it. Stop expecting others to do it for you.

You do realize that it's already half-way implemented in the source code for the Neo Geo core, right?

You want the core, you learn Verilog and VHDL and write it. Stop expecting others to do it for you.

Heh, speak for yourself. Not everyone knows how to program or has the talent to do so.