The online community for MiSTer FPGA enthusiasts
https://misterfpga.org/
Which cores require dual RAM? I haven't seen a solid list so I haven't been able to decide whether it's worth the effort of changing my defacto "stack".
cursedverses wrote: ↑Fri Sep 01, 2023 1:45 pmit's common sense that where people have invested a fair proportion of money into building a system to what seems to be its most popular configuration, telling those that your configuration is effectively wrong and you'll miss out isn't exactly going to make any friends, is it?
Again, I find this a weird perspective... rather than seeing a developer releasing a new core that people have been asking for as positive, you instead view it as their way of "telling people their configurations are wrong". Do you really think they are putting in months of free effort just to frustrate people with a particular hardware setup?
MiSTer is and has always been a modular platform under constant revision, with new innovations and upgrades happening all the time. Many of us upgraded our 32MB RAM modules to 128MB for Neo Geo and CPS2, but I certainly wasn't complaining considering the great games from both systems that suddenly became available. Were the developers of those cores doing us a disservice by not respecting our current configurations?
If you are annoyed that you have to upgrade your setup to use a new core, fine, but that's on you rather than the developer. I mean, nobody complains that Intel or Nvidia are being unfair when their processor or graphics card becomes outdated by this years model... progress marches on.
None as of now.
PS1 was potentially going to use it, but Robert worked his magic and there is almost zero benefit in that core
Saturn WIP core required dual RAM initially, and still has builds for it, unknown whether it will be required for the public release as the core is still fairly unstable
The upcoming Midway Y-Unit core will require it:
https://www.system16.com/hardware.php?id=610
As will the upcoming Z-Unit (NARC) core:
https://www.system16.com/hardware.php?id=609
EDIT:
Lightwave wrote: ↑Fri Sep 01, 2023 2:55 pmAgain, I find this a weird perspective... rather than seeing a developer releasing a new core that people have been asking for as positive, you instead view it as their way of "telling people their configurations are wrong". Do you really think they are putting in months of free effort just to frustrate people with a particular hardware setup?
Read it this way:
For those with dual ram, great! A new core!
For those without, great! I have to go buy new things to use the core!
Or, great! I have to dig out/buy the classic stack in order to use dual ram to use it?
It's not that hard to interpret.
MiSTer is and has always been a modular platform under constant revision, with new innovations and upgrades happening all the time. Many of us upgraded our 32MB RAM modules to 128MB for Neo Geo and CPS2, but I certainly wasn't complaining considering the great games from both systems that suddenly became available. Were the developers of those cores doing us a disservice by not respecting our current configurations?
When a project is in its youth, it generally can be considered unstable. The project has come a long way since and the majority of cores people will want to use are available. None of those at this point require dual RAM. So, there is way less reward for effort here.
If you are annoyed that you have to upgrade your setup to use a new core, fine, but that's on you rather than the developer. I mean, nobody complains that Intel or Nvidia are being unfair when their processor or graphics card becomes outdated by this years model... progress marches on.
I'm not even annoyed. I'm just going to wait for someone to look at the core, say "well, that's just silly" and have it work on single RAM.
Finally again, I don't expect this thread to change the world and I don't get why people are going full argument. It's an opinion.
My opinion right now is "Dual RAM? Nah."
I'll will take my decision when the new cores requiring dual RAM are available.
I'm using MiSTer on CRT, i hope the cheap DAC for direct_video are not too bad quality.
I recall a long while back reading about an analog VGA board with 32M of RAM soldered into it. Would that work if the analog VGA board had RAM along with the RAM that we already have. (Note that this was some time ago and I may be recalling incorrectly.)
At the moment I need VGA output (being sent to a CRT) more than I want to play the cores needing Dual RAM, despite having several sticks of RAM to hand.
Isn't there an adapter cable for the digital board that supports VGA out with even slightly higher color depth than the analog board requires? (I don't have a CRT, but I recall reading something about this a couple of years ago.)
cursedverses wrote: ↑Fri Sep 01, 2023 3:42 pmI don't get why people are going full argument. It's an opinion.
My opinion right now is "Dual RAM? Nah."
"Dual RAM? Nah." would have been a much better response than (to paraphrase) "If you aren't going to accommodate me, then enjoy your obscurity". I simply find that attitude pretty entitled and disrespectful to one of a handful devs who are contributing to the MiSTer. Anyone pushing the boundaries of the MiSTer should be applauded for their advancements, regardless if you personally directly benefit or not.
Now, if someone can whittle the cores down to a single RAM eventually as you mentioned, fantastic. But let's give thanks where they are due; any core being released for the MiSTer is a positive development, not something to moan about.
Lightwave wrote: ↑Fri Sep 01, 2023 3:00 pmNone as of now.
PS1 was potentially going to use it, but Robert worked his magic and there is almost zero benefit in that core
Saturn WIP core required dual RAM initially, and still has builds for it, unknown whether it will be required for the public release as the core is still fairly unstable
The upcoming Midway Y-Unit core will require it:
https://www.system16.com/hardware.php?id=610As will the upcoming Z-Unit (NARC) core:
https://www.system16.com/hardware.php?id=609EDIT:
- Forgot the Jaguar core, which is incomplete but does make use of dual RAM
Thank you for that list.
To answer the topic question, today I will not be re-configuring my MiSTer setup for dual RAM.
Right now I've got the analog board on the top. While I don't use analog video output anymore, I like the buttons and fan. Obviously the case will change as well. Does anyone have any links to a "standard dual RAM" setup with fan, case buttons, and an appropriate case?
Yep, a simple and cheap adapter for Direct Video from the MiSTer will do the trick:
https://mister-devel.github.io/MkDocs_M ... rectvideo/
I have some RAM modules laying around anyway, so definitely going to pop another in my main MiSTer. No reason not to.
I'm not the biggest fan of MK exactly, but may as well.
I remember when the first TMS CPU based systems were getting developed for MAME. It took quite a while, required higher spec PC hardware, and IIRC, the development was a bit tricky, and slower than many other cores (such as 68000 based ones). I think some of them were dual proc too, maybe Total Carnage or Smash TV, NARC, etc. So needing more memory bandwidth makes sense to me.
Personally, I prefer older Midway games, but a lot of people like these games, and it makes sense to develop cores for them.
An NBA Jam core would get me thinking about different options!
I'll do it once they get the first MK sequel and the NBA Jam games working.
No way. I am sure we will see MK on single RAM eventually, when more talented devs give it a try.
But I am not paying for a new setup just for a game (I am not interested in NARC at all).
My understanding is that I can't use my MT-32Pi through the userport if I upgrade to dual ram. I will need to go the UDP protocol route instead. The problem is that my MT-32pi uses the Raspberry Pi 3A+, which requires that I use Wi-Fi instead of Ethernet for networking. I don't use Wi-Fi, so I'd have to figure out how to modify my Raspberry Pi 3B or 4B to turn it into a MT-32-pi device, when I already have one that works fine. And all for a few arcade cores? It's not worth the investment.
HarborSeal wrote: ↑Sat Sep 02, 2023 3:12 amMy understanding is that I can't use my MT-32Pi through the userport if I upgrade to dual ram.
Not true, the Digital I/O board that allows for dual RAM still has the user port for SNAC, MT-32Pi, etc.
(And if you are using the Analog I/O board, then you can't install dual RAM anyway as the second port is physically blocked, so it's a moot point)
My primary arcade setup for MiSTer is a modded Arcade1up cab using a fast HDMI screen (measured to be comparable to a CRT). So I have a free slot where I can put an old 32Mb expansion.
I probably won't bother to change my travel or primary MiSTers though, as I want the option to dual output video (even if rarely used).
Time will tell if some if the dual RAM cores can be adapted into single RAM. I have the impression it is harder and uses more resources on the FPGA.
Let devs have their fun releasing what they want in whatever setup they deem suitable ..
Not me. I'm living happily in the 1980's retro computer cores like C64/16/128, PCXT and Amiga. The 486 is also plenty fast enough for what I want from it.
Lightwave wrote: ↑Sat Sep 02, 2023 5:30 amHarborSeal wrote: ↑Sat Sep 02, 2023 3:12 amMy understanding is that I can't use my MT-32Pi through the userport if I upgrade to dual ram.
Not true, the Digital I/O board that allows for dual RAM still has the user port for SNAC, MT-32Pi, etc.
(And if you are using the Analog I/O board, then you can't install dual RAM anyway as the second port is physically blocked, so it's a moot point)
Good to hear. I'll keep an eye on how many cores actually require dual-ram. If it changes significantly, I may upgrade.
Lightwave wrote: ↑Fri Sep 01, 2023 4:11 pmcursedverses wrote: ↑Fri Sep 01, 2023 3:42 pmI don't get why people are going full argument. It's an opinion.
My opinion right now is "Dual RAM? Nah.""Dual RAM? Nah." would have been a much better response than (to paraphrase) "If you aren't going to accommodate me, then enjoy your obscurity". I simply find that attitude pretty entitled and disrespectful to one of a handful devs who are contributing to the MiSTer. Anyone pushing the boundaries of the MiSTer should be applauded for their advancements, regardless if you personally directly benefit or not.
It's not entitled. It's not even an attack on the developer. It's just how it is. Many already have their setups the way they want them. If there was an avalanche on dual-ram cores suddenly, then personally I'd reconsider.
I really think you're looking for spite when there isn't any.
Now, if someone can whittle the cores down to a single RAM eventually as you mentioned, fantastic. But let's give thanks where they are due; any core being released for the MiSTer is a positive development, not something to moan about.
And this is what I do love about the community. People will see something that maybe doesn't quite fit and make things better for all.
I mean absolutely no harm to you Lightwave, and certainly not moaning. I hope we can put this to sleep now.
No problem for me, as I first bought the 32mb, then the 128mb one
The advantage from Mister is, that you could do it, if you want. For me personally this is no option. Most cores dont need it, and most Devs used this Option only at the beginning of the development. So i cant really understand the hype for it.
for MK? hell no. now for MKII that would be a hell yes.
same board, mostly same core
Could you please share the source (url) of this revelation? Is he going to release just a digital IO board or analog one but based on direct video DAC? If it is the latter I would be the first in line to get it.
Until a dual RAM version of the MiSTercade comes out? No.
I don't know. i just wrote with him over aliexpress.
I don't even know if I have dual RAM or single 
I built my Mister in 2019.can't remember!
was dual RAM an option from start?
