MiSTer FPGA Forum

Posted: **Thu Apr 29, 2021 2:18 pm**

Missingno255 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 29, 2021 7:52 am Heh, speak for yourself. Not everyone knows how to program or has the talent to do so.

NO. I will speak for the community on this one. As this is not fair to anyone who spends countless hours working on code.
These people put in countless hours of work into developing the software, and most never gets any compensation.

No one got the right to demand anything from anyone, especially here.
There alot of people who want this core or that core but not willing to put in any effort or contribute in anyways. They just want Free Software.
They need to get a reality check.

If you really want that core, learn to program, no if's and's or but's. I honestly don't care if you don't know how or have zero talent.
Skills come from practice and hard work and not just magically gifted to people at birth.
That isn't anyone fault but your own that you are unable and unwilling and expect everyone else to serve you on a sliver platter.

If you really want the core, make it happen then. Don't expect people to give up their time and money to contribute to a protect you are putting nothing into. If anything this thread is keeping the people who could work on the core to not want to out of spite, because self entitled people want a core with no contribution.

Be the change you want to see.

Posted: **Thu Apr 29, 2021 7:30 pm**

@darksakul Sorry to say, but I'm eternally grateful most developers don't feel as you do.

Posted: **Thu Apr 29, 2021 10:28 pm**

Truth is, as a developer, I can tell you that I (and pretty much all developers) will write the thing that I/we want to write.
A thread about how somebody wants such-and-such core is NOT going to change my thoughts about whether to write it or not... about 90% of the time.

What WOULD alter my thoughts about whether to work on something - in a POSITIVE way - include:
- enthusiastic people who have something to contribute - be it hardware, hardware-level analysis, software-level analysis, emulator-writing experiences (on that specific machine), etc.
- other developers who have partially-built portions and wish to collaborate
- people who have written test sets for the machine for validation
- people I have worked with before, who know how to provide good feedback on what's working and what's not

What would alter my thoughts about whether to work on something in a NEGATIVE way include:
- people who want something to the degree that they want to be first to possess a copy, but who would also be challenging in terms of support (i.e. a bug report should read "game xyz with CRC <xxxxx> has graphic corruption in the lower-right corner of the screen, after starting the game with character <y>", rather than "it doesn't work" - which is all too common, and utterly useless)
- people who wish for somebody to do something for them without effective collaboration, especially those who offer encouraging words such as "when will it be ready ?, what's taking so long ?", etc.
- criticism which provides no useful direction

I'll leave it at that, and you can judge for yourself whether this thread is going to persuade a developer who wasn't already going to write it.

..But one should also consider this... for somebody who was planning to write such a core for their own reasons anyway, does this thread pose an incentive or disincentive to release it to the public ?

Posted: **Fri Apr 30, 2021 2:20 am**

@dshadoff I in no way intended to slight developers. I've done OSS coding since long before it was known by any such cool term (we just called it software! LOL), and have been blessed to be able to contribute to a number of rather high-profile projects over the years. Still, the trope of addressing someone with passion with "learn to program!" is so old, combative and lacking nuance that it's an embarrassment to the hobby. It's like telling someone with car trouble to "learn to be a mechanic!". Easily said...not so easily done, and what fun would a world be if every consumer were required to be a producer first?

Yes, OSS development (particularly) is all about scratching an itch in one way or another, and yes, it can get old and tiring hearing non-stop requests, many from folks with little understanding or gratitude. If that grates on someone's nerves, I understand - but an appropriate response is to simply move on in silence, not to lambast them for 'not trying hard enough to learn to be a developer'. I truly detest the term, honestly - development skills are honed over a lifetime, you don't just 'learn to code' (particularly with someone as rarified as FPGA!).

The true irony here is that if Sorgelig had shared the same perspective as darksakul, MiSTer itself would not exist (at least not as a public project), which is why I took great offense. Sometimes, the best thing to say is truly nothing at all.

Posted: **Fri Apr 30, 2021 4:29 am**

@rhester72, I understand where you're coming from, but I don't agree with all of your points.

I do agree that "learn how to program" can sound harsh, as it is not a simple one-afternoon piece of work. You really need to want to learn how to do it, and to invest a substantial amount of time into the pursuit. And we can't expect everybody to do it. In fact, we can't expect anybody to do it just because we said so.
...This is *EXACTLY* the same way that saying "the core is important, so somebody should build it (for me)" is just as patronizing, and essentially disrespectful of the amount of work required.

"learn to be a mechanic" is not exactly the best metaphor here either: if you have a car and require a fix, mechanics are readily available at a price that is affordable for most people. If, on the other hand, mechanics were scarce, and the person with a car requiring a fix wanted it done for free, then the metaphor approaches equivalency. When your resource is scarce-to-non-existent and you really need something done, there really is no other way than to learn how to do it yourself (or accept the fact that you're not going to be driving your car).

This thread started as a simple request, which I don't think anybody immediately got upset over; there were some responses about why developers aren't excited about writing this core, but then the thread sort of devolved into:
"But I want it"
"The developers will build it if they feel like it, which frankly I don't think they do at the moment"
"But I want it"
...etc. for three pages.

At a certain point, it has to be said: If you have that much tenacity, you are ready to learn how to program.

Posted: **Fri Apr 30, 2021 6:25 pm**

rhester72 wrote: ↑Fri Apr 30, 2021 2:20 am The true irony here is that if Sorgelig had shared the same perspective as darksakul, MiSTer itself would not exist (at least not as a public project), which is why I took great offense. Sometimes, the best thing to say is truly nothing at all.

You miss the whole point. If you are really that unwavering and self-righteous you will find a way.
This MiSTer exist as Sorgelig wanted it and made it happen, he wanted to upgrade from the MiST and he wanted X, Y, and Z to exist with it.
The Analogue NT Mini, Super NT and Mega SG consoles exist as they went to Kevtris with a check and said "here can you make this" and Kevtris wanted to work on those consoles anyways.
The most garneted way to have a item made is ether do it your self or provide someone with actual incentive to do it for you.
Complaining about people not seeing your way isn't the way to make things happen. If you want to see a change happen, you have to be willing to commit.

I think eventually ether Neo Geo CD functions will be added to the existing Neo Geo Core or a stand alone Neo Geo CD core will be made.
But you have to wait if you don't want to add to any contribution.

There other ways people contribute without learning to program, like bug report once the core made, documenting behaviors and bugs in the actual hardware, providing financial or material assistance (many devs have a patreon or other crowdsourcing to cover their costs), few people even donated consoles and boards to devs so the devs can study the real hardware and have some real hardware to compare too.

Honestly the one who needs to say nothing is you rhester72. Who brings nothing to offer to the table other than your hallow "I want it" statements.

Posted: **Fri Apr 30, 2021 7:38 pm**

darksakul wrote: ↑Fri Apr 30, 2021 6:25 pmHonestly the one who needs to say nothing is you rhester72. Who brings nothing to offer to the table other than your hallow "I want it" statements.

Don't confuse me with the OP. I actually _don't_ want it (or, rather, I have zero interest in it one way or the other).

Posted: **Wed May 05, 2021 1:50 pm**

CD functionality would be awesome. A handful of awesome exclusives that would be great on MiSTer

Posted: **Mon Jun 07, 2021 7:19 am**

mcj wrote: ↑Sat May 30, 2020 9:44 pm Having a NeoGeo CD core would simply be bliss! I do hope that some brave soul steps up to the plate to knock it out for the MiSTer!

With the recent new development of the libretro neocd core, there is now a lot more research done looking into the accuracy of NeoGeo CD hardware, specifically the CD controller.

And while many in this thread mention long load times, this video illustrates what it could look like in the core as well with a CD Load Skipping hack, also found in the neocd core. The best part of that video is really that it is demonstrated using one of the absolute worst offenders of the load screen.

All of that said, it really would be quite an endeavor and assuredly not an easy one. I do hope to play some Neo Turf Masters CD on the MiSTer someday!

Yeah, I enjoy music from that game.

Posted: **Mon Oct 11, 2021 12:06 pm**

I came across this thread after I learned about an hour ago that the Neo Geo CD actually exists (I live in a country where Neo Geo home consoles just weren't a thing). What I gathered from reading through is that people here have been discussing whether the exclusive content and features of its software library are things worth developing a core for. I'd like to think that the MiSTer community is mature enough to refrain from making demands.

Anyway developers, please keep up the good work and do what you're interested in. As I'm sure we all know, if you're really into something, the end result tends to be a lot better than if you were to be pressured into it.

Posted: **Wed Oct 13, 2021 6:09 am**

darksakul wrote: ↑Mon Apr 19, 2021 10:51 am
DaveGeorge wrote: ↑Sun Apr 18, 2021 11:54 pm
darksakul wrote: ↑Sun Apr 18, 2021 1:27 pm

That is it, all that is were missing from the Neo geo CD, just the one game.
And believe me you aren't missing much.
But it’s not just ”that one game” now is it. Quite a few of the CD-games are enhanced in one way or another. Turfmasters has the Scotland course, Metal Slug has the combat school, Real bout Special has Blue Mary’s music video. Not to mention the cd-soundtrack that’s included in a lot of the titles.

Except to be honest, even among the hard core Neo geo Fans, no one cares about the Scotland Course, Combat School or Blue Mary's music video.
I think the Scotland course is awful, same for the combat school. It's like saying we need to support The Turbo Grafx Cd version of Alterbeast as it a better sound track despite it being the worst port of Alterbeast, even the NES port is a much better game.

Were not losing out on Neo Turf Masters or Metal Slug, Real bout Special don't benefit from a forgettable music video.

You want the core, you learn Verilog and VHDL and write it. Stop expecting others to do it for you.

Couldn't disagree more. I own every major Neogeo game on a whole host of consoles. The RBS music video is my childhood right there. Wasn't used to a 2D video game making such quality cutscenes (I only discovered snatcher years after), also yes I find that school on Metal Slug and Scotland from Neo Turf Masters to be significant.

Also preferred the band style music for the fighting games as opposed to the Sega Megadrive style cartridge music. There are plenty of Neo CD fans. Nobody honestly knows if there's real interest in putting in work for the core or if there isn't. Saying people don't have interest in a core like that would be like saying folks aren't interested in a Sega Saturn/Sega CD core.

Posted: **Wed Oct 13, 2021 6:14 pm**

I was going to ignore this thread, but I got notification of a reply.

Captain FPGA wrote: ↑Wed Oct 13, 2021 6:09 am There are plenty of Neo CD fans. Nobody honestly knows if there's real interest in putting in work for the core or if there isn't.

No one know's if there real interest is where I am getting at, sure there edge cases who actually value the Neo CD (for some ungodly reason).
I saying people don't have interest because it's true, they don't. (The hypothetical numbers here just to put values on what I seen online) If out of survey of 1000 people, 100 said No we don't need CD support, 2 said yes, and the 898 ether don't care ether way or undecided. That is those 2 people going to convince? It may as well be zero for all it matters.

Most people who are into Neo Geo ether:
A. Saw/played them in the arcades
B. Saw/played them in the arcades, owned a home AES or Neo CD back in the 90s
C. Saw/played them in the Arcades, played later ports on like the PS2 (or later consoles) or Emulation
D. Never saw the Arcades, Played them on later ports like the PS2 (or later consoles) and/or Emulation
E. Saw/played them in the arcades, now owns a MVS, AES, or Neo CD years later
F. Never saw the Arcades, Never had them at home, never played Emulation or Ports.

So out of B, how many seen, know of or even played Neo CD? No anyone even knows?
All of the ports and most of the emulation ignores Neo CD. So no one really knows what they are missing.

We see cores made as someone felt ether nostalgic for that core, or thought it interesting and worth attention.
You are obviously Nostalgic and passionate about Neo Geo CD support, problem is the way you going to go about it is going to get people who share opinions like I expressed to double down on their "We need no CD Support".

For most people its, "why we need to support that 1 RPG no one played or cared about" and that what is going to hang over this entire thing.
Just telling the other groups who are disinterested or undecided that "they are wrong" isn't what going to get this going ether, as they just dismiss you. I starting to change my mind, but I went from opposed to don't care.

Captain FPGA wrote: ↑Wed Oct 13, 2021 6:09 am Saying people don't have interest in a core like that would be like saying folks aren't interested in a Sega Saturn/Sega CD core.

Except people did spoke up, a overwhelming amount of people spoke up about having Saturn and PS1 Support, and a Sega CD Core and Turbo Grafx CD support is already made.
Your Statement is a bad comparison, it's a false equivalence. There actual titles on the Saturn, Sega CD, and PS1 that seen no where else.
I speaking of titles not the extras or alternate sound tracks, extra levels and omakes. It's why people go and say its just one game.
Each system to be made into a core needs to be looked at individually on their own merits, and not compared/contrasted to other cores.

The one way this is going to get off the ground is if a passionate and nostalgic individual also leads the development of the core.
Or you get people excited about that little piece of NG history that getting overlooked.

Posted: **Wed Oct 13, 2021 8:12 pm**

The great majority of developers do it for free in their spare time and one should thank them for what they are doing. You can ask for a specific core but you cannot request a specific core.
Regarding Jotego it is a different ball game, he has a bunch of patrons who can request specific cores. $ talks.

Posted: **Wed Oct 13, 2021 8:50 pm**

My post was not directed towards you but to those asking incessantly for Neo Geo CD or whatever.
It was also not directed towards Jotego who makes his cores public once debugged.

Posted: **Wed Oct 13, 2021 11:40 pm**

If there’s no core, it’s because there are no developers interested enough to put it at the top of their priority list. Not to say that they will never do it, but it just isn’t interesting enough to them yet (evidently because something else is). This has no particular relationship to how many non-developers want such a core, or how badly any one of them thinks they want it. It has been said before, but this isn’t a corporation running a help desk to service requests… it’s hobbyists writing code for themselves, and sharing.

Posted: **Thu Oct 14, 2021 8:49 am**

dshadoff wrote: ↑Wed Oct 13, 2021 11:40 pm If there’s no core, it’s because there are no developers interested enough to put it at the top of their priority list. Not to say that they will never do it, but it just isn’t interesting enough to them yet (evidently because something else is). This has no particular relationship to how many non-developers want such a core, or how badly any one of them thinks they want it. It has been said before, but this isn’t a corporation running a help desk to service requests… it’s hobbyists writing code for themselves, and sharing.

You're speaking for yourself, and perhaps some other devs you know really well. This is not a closed pool however. There are people from "outside" contributing to the project all the time, and they might have completely different motivations and influences.

It's only logical that expressing interest in cores - or features - might cause somebody to actually start working on it (latest example: Apple II disk write support) and there is nothing wrong with it as long as it's done in respectable and reasonable manner.

So my message to the lurkers and passer-bys is: keep at it, and don't mind the local grumbling. But also, don't expect something will happen overnight - or ever. One of the great things about MiSTer is that unpredictability: you never know what surprise you'll get next week, but there is no doubt that the project is constantly evolving.

Posted: **Thu Oct 14, 2021 11:55 am**

It’s just a statement of fact. A new developer who really wants to see this core could learn HDL and work on it (as some comments have encouraged), or another developer could finish what they’re working on and find this as the next item on their list to work on. But if it doesn’t exist today, that hasn’t happened yet. Simple as that. Positive comments might slightly adjust the timing for someone who had already considered developing it.

Talk about a community being toxic or an “I asked for it a while ago, why isn’t it here yet dammit ?” attitude is only going to dissuade devs from this core and from contributing in general. My helpdesk comparison was in response to those types of comments.

Posted: **Thu Oct 14, 2021 12:29 pm**

dshadoff wrote: ↑Thu Oct 14, 2021 11:55 am Talk about a community being toxic or an “I asked for it a while ago, why isn’t it here yet dammit ?” attitude is only going to dissuade devs from this core and from contributing in general. My helpdesk comparison was in response to those types of comments.

I don't really see these types of comments here - it's more of your, and few other people's projection. And the remark about toxicity has merit in the light of endless patronizing "lrn2code" (or worse) replies, or full-on shitstorms like the one from yesterday. It's something that is much more likely to put people off from participating, and what in fact I've heard numerous times outside of this very niche forum.

Yes, the fact the core is not here definitely means it's not here. That indeed is a fact, but the rest - as to why that is or what might/might not happen in the future is an opinion. There might be a dev who will simply pop out of the blue next week and do it because he was looking to contribute and saw interest in this core - or it might never happen. In any case, these threads don't do any harm, and if they irritate anybody, they can be simply ignored.

Anyway, I'm not here to argue about it (it's rather clear we don't agree on that) just to present another point of view to non-regulars who read this forum.

Posted: **Thu Oct 14, 2021 1:20 pm**

darksakul wrote: ↑Wed Oct 13, 2021 6:14 pm I was going to ignore this thread, but I got notification of a reply.

Captain FPGA wrote: ↑Wed Oct 13, 2021 6:09 am There are plenty of Neo CD fans. Nobody honestly knows if there's real interest in putting in work for the core or if there isn't.
No one know's if there real interest is where I am getting at, sure there edge cases who actually value the Neo CD (for some ungodly reason).
I saying people don't have interest because it's true, they don't. (The hypothetical numbers here just to put values on what I seen online) If out of survey of 1000 people, 100 said No we don't need CD support, 2 said yes, and the 898 ether don't care ether way or undecided. That is those 2 people going to convince? It may as well be zero for all it matters.

Most people who are into Neo Geo ether:
A. Saw/played them in the arcades
B. Saw/played them in the arcades, owned a home AES or Neo CD back in the 90s
C. Saw/played them in the Arcades, played later ports on like the PS2 (or later consoles) or Emulation
D. Never saw the Arcades, Played them on later ports like the PS2 (or later consoles) and/or Emulation
E. Saw/played them in the arcades, now owns a MVS, AES, or Neo CD years later
F. Never saw the Arcades, Never had them at home, never played Emulation or Ports.

So out of B, how many seen, know of or even played Neo CD? No anyone even knows?
All of the ports and most of the emulation ignores Neo CD. So no one really knows what they are missing.

We see cores made as someone felt ether nostalgic for that core, or thought it interesting and worth attention.
You are obviously Nostalgic and passionate about Neo Geo CD support, problem is the way you going to go about it is going to get people who share opinions like I expressed to double down on their "We need no CD Support".

For most people its, "why we need to support that 1 RPG no one played or cared about" and that what is going to hang over this entire thing.
Just telling the other groups who are disinterested or undecided that "they are wrong" isn't what going to get this going ether, as they just dismiss you. I starting to change my mind, but I went from opposed to don't care.

Captain FPGA wrote: ↑Wed Oct 13, 2021 6:09 am Saying people don't have interest in a core like that would be like saying folks aren't interested in a Sega Saturn/Sega CD core.
Except people did spoke up, a overwhelming amount of people spoke up about having Saturn and PS1 Support, and a Sega CD Core and Turbo Grafx CD support is already made.
Your Statement is a bad comparison, it's a false equivalence. There actual titles on the Saturn, Sega CD, and PS1 that seen no where else.
I speaking of titles not the extras or alternate sound tracks, extra levels and omakes. It's why people go and say its just one game.
Each system to be made into a core needs to be looked at individually on their own merits, and not compared/contrasted to other cores.

The one way this is going to get off the ground is if a passionate and nostalgic individual also leads the development of the core.
Or you get people excited about that little piece of NG history that getting overlooked.

Just sayin', claiming that "no one" cares about the Neo CD? Literally Smh. The thing sold 500,000 units clearly people cared. Regardless of whether it's enough to challenge other hardware or replace the cartridge platforms is another argument. I reject this argument whole sale that it isn't cherished by Neo Geo fans or die-hards.

The intent behind my statement isn't to belittle the Sega CD or Saturn. It's just odd to me that someone would go way out of their way to attack the Neo CD diminishing it's value. The implication there would be if I said the only thing Saturn is good for are fighters or the Sega CD was nothing more than a glorified movie sim. These were talking points pushed by fans of other machines.

Didn't make them necessarily true for everyone, just it's very elitist and divisive. I wouldn't say that about neither console because I love my Saturn, Dreamcast, Mega CD, and Neo CD just about the same. You on the other hand talk about how we shouldn't compare and contrast, you just did it though.

Talking about how those systems had exclusive titles implying because the Neo CD had fewer that should some how justify even giving a Neo CD core the time of day? You should have led with let's judge these systems on their own merits and left it at that.

You are obviously Nostalgic and passionate about Neo Geo CD support, problem is the way you going to go about it is going to get people who share opinions like I expressed to double down on their "We need no CD Support".

By disagreeing with your assessment that nobody cares about Metal Slugs combat school or Mary's music video? Don't conflate defending those exclusive some retro gamers cherish with bashing other consoles or whatever you thought I was doing. I think it's fair game to argue against these narratives and if that prevents people from making a core that 10s of thousands would enjoy, that isn't going to change my position in the slightest. It will disappoint some and they'll move on. Not the end of the world.

To be clear, never said it's wrong to diminish a given hardware for one they perceive is lack of games or whatever. It's more like I'm saying your critiques are harsh and unnecessary. I will say one thing doubling down on "no core" isn't up to you. So that makes one less person big deal. If you're coming into this topic with nothing but negative things to say about the machine, you probably had your mind made up already.

When I first beat RBS over my friends house we all had fond memories of that music video and the sprite art involved. I also happen to like the music from said video. It was cool because it's unexpected to a simple fighting game to deliver this type of presentation. As a fellow artist I appreciated the hell out of it.

I won't get into the other two or that one exclusive on the Neo CD but it goes without saying not everyone is going to think the Neo CD is "bad". Finally, I still contest there are a lot of people out there who'd be interested in such a core. It's Neo Geo after all and apart of original SNK's legacy. Also, those PS2 ports that you mentioned, carried some of those NeoCD tracks, as did the Saturn, PSX, etc. People who are fans of the Saturn and Playstation ports of Neo Geo games I'm sure will have a fond appreciation for these tracks. It's not to say all of them will but, I wouldn't under-estimate the appeal for this thing.

Posted: **Thu Oct 14, 2021 2:03 pm**

Captain FPGA wrote: ↑Thu Oct 14, 2021 1:20 pm
darksakul wrote: ↑Wed Oct 13, 2021 6:14 pm I was going to ignore this thread, but I got notification of a reply.
It's just a person projecting their world view onto others. Typical internet.

Posted: **Thu Oct 14, 2021 2:28 pm**

twonunpackmule wrote: ↑Thu Oct 14, 2021 2:03 pm
Captain FPGA wrote: ↑Thu Oct 14, 2021 1:20 pm
darksakul wrote: ↑Wed Oct 13, 2021 6:14 pm I was going to ignore this thread, but I got notification of a reply.
It's just a person projecting their world view onto others. Typical internet.
And what did he do?

Posted: **Thu Oct 14, 2021 2:57 pm**

Captain FPGA wrote: ↑Thu Oct 14, 2021 1:20 pm Just sayin', claiming that "no one" cares about the Neo CD? Literally Smh. The thing sold 500,000 units clearly people cared. Regardless of whether it's enough to challenge other hardware or replace the cartridge platforms is another argument. I reject this argument whole sale that it isn't cherished by Neo Geo fans or die-hards.

I'm not sure about other people, but I'm certainly not questioning the fact that somebody wants the core.

However:
a) Developers want to do something else more.
b) Nobody wants the core enough to learn how to build it themselves.

I was told in this thread that nobody is demanding developers to write the core, that this is simply my projection...

I find it's the reverse: that the statement "you could learn to program it" is somehow offensive... this is a projection. It's neither offensive in and of itself, nor has it been said in a way that is meant as offensive.

Every developer on this system has learned how to program because they really wanted to get the result. I learned FPGA programming because I wanted a FPGA core for the PC Engine to improve on emulation (it turned out that srg320 beat me to it, but I was fully prepared to work through it). This is also true of GreyRougue and other developers. We weren't all FPGA programmers from day one - that's nonsense. Sure, some were procedural programmers before - but in the overwhelming majority of cases, they learned that themselves too, because they wanted it that much.

So "learn" is not an offensive statement at all - it's meant as an encouragement, and an empowering statement.

Captain FPGA wrote: ↑Thu Oct 14, 2021 1:20 pm The intent behind my statement isn't to belittle the Sega CD or Saturn. It's just odd to me that someone would go way out of their way to attack the Neo CD diminishing it's value.

Nobody is belittling it or trying to diminish its value.
However:
srg320 preferred to write a Saturn core.
FPGAzumspass preferred to write PSX.
Furrtek didn't continue on NeoCD core because he returned to decapping chips - and to build the NeoSD Loader device because people like the machine.
There is only one of each of these people.

I don't know, maybe one day, one of these developers will work on it. Or perhaps one of the posters here might.

Posted: **Fri Oct 15, 2021 12:34 am**

dshadoff wrote: ↑Thu Oct 14, 2021 2:57 pm
Captain FPGA wrote: ↑Thu Oct 14, 2021 1:20 pm Just sayin', claiming that "no one" cares about the Neo CD? Literally Smh. The thing sold 500,000 units clearly people cared. Regardless of whether it's enough to challenge other hardware or replace the cartridge platforms is another argument. I reject this argument whole sale that it isn't cherished by Neo Geo fans or die-hards.
I'm not sure about other people, but I'm certainly not questioning the fact that somebody wants the core.

However:
a) Developers want to do something else more.
b) Nobody wants the core enough to learn how to build it themselves.

I was told in this thread that nobody is demanding developers to write the core, that this is simply my projection...

I find it's the reverse: that the statement "you could learn to program it" is somehow offensive... this is a projection. It's neither offensive in and of itself, nor has it been said in a way that is meant as offensive.

Every developer on this system has learned how to program because they really wanted to get the result. I learned FPGA programming because I wanted a FPGA core for the PC Engine to improve on emulation (it turned out that srg320 beat me to it, but I was fully prepared to work through it). This is also true of GreyRougue and other developers. We weren't all FPGA programmers from day one - that's nonsense. Sure, some were procedural programmers before - but in the overwhelming majority of cases, they learned that themselves too, because they wanted it that much.

So "learn" is not an offensive statement at all - it's meant as an encouragement, and an empowering statement.

Captain FPGA wrote: ↑Thu Oct 14, 2021 1:20 pm The intent behind my statement isn't to belittle the Sega CD or Saturn. It's just odd to me that someone would go way out of their way to attack the Neo CD diminishing it's value.
Nobody is belittling it or trying to diminish its value.
However:
srg320 preferred to write a Saturn core.
FPGAzumspass preferred to write PSX.
Furrtek didn't continue on NeoCD core because he returned to decapping chips - and to build the NeoSD Loader device because people like the machine.
There is only one of each of these people.

I don't know, maybe one day, one of these developers will work on it. Or perhaps one of the posters here might.

First of all, thank you so much for explaining the intent behind asking people to learn how to program a core if they like them enough. I can see how some might think it's just a way to dismiss people but after you explained it I feel differently now.

However, I don't think I was trying to imply saying something like that would be offensive? If I did then I definitely forgot. Correct me if I'm wrong but perhaps you were trying to address someone else?

Furrtek did a gr8 job with the SD Loader. I'm glad he made these available for the front loader.

Posted: **Fri Oct 15, 2021 4:34 am**

Sorry, the reply was not specifically directed at you - it was a general response to what seems to have become largely a "side A" and "side B" conversation.

Posted: **Fri Oct 15, 2021 5:57 am**

The NEO-GEO CD is a strange beast. It was released for the soul purpose of trying to sell NEO-GEO AES hardware and software to people who couldn't afford the cart versions. Only a handful of titles are exclusives to the system and some of them aren't even games at all. IMPO, this system should not be a priority over most other systems.

Posted: **Fri Oct 15, 2021 4:56 pm**

Is the hardware drastically different from the AVS/MVS? Would someone need to make a whole new core, or would it be possible to add NGCD support to the existing core?

I have a NGCD and agree it would be nice to have it added to MiSTer one day, if someone was so inclined to do so.

Posted: **Fri Oct 15, 2021 6:50 pm**

It's probably possible to add to the existing core (but I don't know the details).
Unless a technical barrier exists (such as shortage of resources), this would be the approach that should be taken.

Posted: **Sun Oct 17, 2021 5:59 pm**

0x15e wrote: ↑Sat Oct 16, 2021 3:31 pm
the_importer wrote: ↑Fri Oct 15, 2021 5:57 am The NEO-GEO CD is a strange beast. It was released for the soul purpose of trying to sell NEO-GEO AES hardware and software to people who couldn't afford the cart versions. Only a handful of titles are exclusives to the system and some of them aren't even games at all. IMPO, this system should not be a priority over most other systems.
The thing is that so much of the hard work is already done. Aside from the bios, CD drive, some sound limitations, and using ram instead of rom, there isn't a huge difference. If you look back in the Neo Geo core commit history, you can see where furrtek was working on it (attempting to hook up the bios at least). If it was a big architecture change I would completely agree that it's not worth the effort but it just feels so close that it's disappointing and frustrating that it might never be finished.

Has anyone ever heard from furrtek about why it wasn't completed? If there's a technical reason I'll be perfectly happy to shut up about this. If it was more of a "diminishing returns" situation, I'll just have to hold out hope that someone picks it up eventually - maybe after the other high profile CD systems (PSX and Saturn) are done.

I know there are plans for a dedicated MRA-based MVS core at some point... Maybe that could reinvigorate interest or turn up some new information that would make NGCD support easier.

Unfortunately even though I'm a programmer for my day job I don't know nearly enough about emulation, let alone fpga dev to do anything with it, otherwise I'd have a go at it myself.

I'd personally prefer a NEO-GEO Pocket Color core over a NEO-GEO CD core

Posted: **Sun Oct 17, 2021 6:40 pm**

NGPC will definitely happen, Robert had expressed interest however Jotego had said he would do it. I expect someone will do it within the next year, hopefully Robert after he has finished the PS1.

Posted: **Tue Nov 09, 2021 3:33 am**

The only thing I miss with the neo geo cd are the soundrack of Samurai Spirits 1-4 and the RPG but that game alone justify a neogeo cd core.

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