MiSTer FPGA Forum

I would only add dual RAM if CPS3 requires it.

I have an older 128MB + I use analog IO board with my CRT and I have the official case.
I need to buy newer version RAM for the Saturn Core and I figured maybe it's best if I just go for dual RAM in case MK core comes out.(I'm big fan of MK and Saturn).

so does dual RAM setup mean no analog IO board and no CRT?
the HDMI to CRT convertor are very finicky and hit and miss as far as I know.

what else do I have to buy if I want dual RAM setup? what size of ram? 2x 128mb?

Dual Ram means only Digital IO board. CRT output can be obtained via a HDMI dongle

This explains it all

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8iiMPWINnnw

Nope

KneeTie wrote: ↑Thu Oct 12, 2023 8:12 pm

I would only add dual RAM if CPS3 requires it.

And MK2 and MK3 and NBA JAM and a lot of other high bandwith arcade cores...

Did dual when I first built my mister, no regrets.

cursedverses wrote: ↑Fri Sep 01, 2023 1:21 pm

FPGA64 wrote: ↑Fri Sep 01, 2023 12:38 pm

cursedverses wrote: ↑Fri Sep 01, 2023 12:32 pm

Exactly this. I love the multisystem I put my DE-10 into. If you're not going to accomodate those of us that have bought a fixed setup (aka the setup that works with everything else) well, enjoy carving a niche into a niche...

Well you could argue you went off into a niche when you didnt use the official stack. Its just unfortunate that the derrivative builds cant handle dual ram.

It's not really that derivative of what the default stack has been all this time - USB hub, DE10, Analog/Digital addon.

It'd be interesting to see just how much of the community runs a dual-ram stack and, after spending considerable money on obtaining the stack, would be willing to break it down for another RAM stick. How do you post a poll on here anyway?!?

also the multisystem is a quality piece of kit. my multisystem ram tests fine at 160 for example.

the systems needing dual ram i don’t care so much about. they’re stuff i can run better under emulation mostly anyway.

Bunker wrote: ↑Tue Nov 21, 2023 10:51 am

Did dual when I first built my mister, no regrets.

Sure, as much regrets as benefits so far?

Saturn core hitting main has me reconsidering dual sticks. A lot of missing sound on my single stick solution.

FoxbatStargazer wrote: ↑Wed Nov 22, 2023 12:20 am

Saturn core hitting main has me reconsidering dual sticks. A lot of missing sound on my single stick solution.

I don't think this has something to do with single/dual ram. Sound is generally buggy, not just missing but glitches/static sound too in more than a few games. The games that already work fine, sound-wise, will do that with single or dual ram.

pac wrote: ↑Tue Nov 21, 2023 10:57 pm

Bunker wrote: ↑Tue Nov 21, 2023 10:51 am

Did dual when I first built my mister, no regrets.

Sure, as much regrets as benefits so far?

Costs next to nothing for an additional ram stick

FoxbatStargazer wrote: ↑Wed Nov 22, 2023 12:20 am

Saturn core hitting main has me reconsidering dual sticks. A lot of missing sound on my single stick solution.

Dual stick won't help (anymore), the core was resigned to do dual concurrent access to a single stick. That stick, however, MUST be V2.9 or above.

rhester72 wrote: ↑Wed Nov 22, 2023 8:05 pm

FoxbatStargazer wrote: ↑Wed Nov 22, 2023 12:20 am

Saturn core hitting main has me reconsidering dual sticks. A lot of missing sound on my single stick solution.

Dual stick won't help (anymore), the core was resigned to do dual concurrent access to a single stick. That stick, however, MUST be V2.9 or above.

BS. Works fine on my 2.5 RAM. Zero problems.

C-R-T wrote: ↑Sun Nov 26, 2023 6:20 pm

BS. Works fine on my 2.5 RAM. Zero problems.

a) You'd literally be the first on this forum to say so.
b) I'd be shocked if, at minimum, you weren't experiencing missing music in places/games you haven't noticed or played.

rhester72 wrote: ↑Sun Nov 26, 2023 8:43 pm

C-R-T wrote: ↑Sun Nov 26, 2023 6:20 pm

BS. Works fine on my 2.5 RAM. Zero problems.

a) You'd literally be the first on this forum to say so.
b) I'd be shocked if, at minimum, you weren't experiencing missing music in places/games you haven't noticed or played.

I don't know if this helps but I have three MiSTers and they all have the very first version of the 128M when it first came out. I haven't noticed any problems with audio or gameplay for almost all the way through Albert Odyssey. It's easy to switch between them with a shared save files with RetroNAS but I digress

djsquare wrote: ↑Mon Nov 27, 2023 1:22 am

I don't know if this helps but I have three MiSTers and they all have the very first version of the 128M when it first came out. I haven't noticed any problems with audio or gameplay for almost all the way through Albert Odyssey. It's easy to switch between them with a shared save files with RetroNAS but I digress

The music problem isn't with all games - a list should be pretty easy to derive from the Saturn thread with people consistently complaining about the same set of games.

rhester72 wrote: ↑Mon Nov 27, 2023 2:11 am

djsquare wrote: ↑Mon Nov 27, 2023 1:22 am

I don't know if this helps but I have three MiSTers and they all have the very first version of the 128M when it first came out. I haven't noticed any problems with audio or gameplay for almost all the way through Albert Odyssey. It's easy to switch between them with a shared save files with RetroNAS but I digress

The music problem isn't with all games - a list should be pretty easy to derive from the Saturn thread with people consistently complaining about the same set of games.

Interesting. I don't know if this is a tired subject or not but are there any known titles I could try that are problematic? I would really hate to replace all the RAM in all three of these MiSTers but if it needs to be done, it needs to be done

An incomplete list of games where issues with crackling/missing sound effects and/or music were resolved by upgrading RAM from v2.5 to v2.9/3.0 (2-chip modules ONLY, the 4-chip versions do not work!):

Clockwork Knight
Daytona USA
Duke Nukem 3D
Earthworm Jim 2
Nights into Dreams
Panzer Dragoon
Sega Rally
Virtua Fighter 2

Cotton 2 music doesn't work well with 2.5.

rhester72 wrote: ↑Mon Nov 27, 2023 3:24 am

An incomplete list of games where issues with crackling/missing sound effects and/or music were resolved by upgrading RAM from v2.5 to v2.9/3.0 (2-chip modules ONLY, the 4-chip versions do not work!):

Clockwork Knight
Daytona USA
Duke Nukem 3D
Earthworm Jim 2
Nights into Dreams
Panzer Dragoon
Sega Rally
Virtua Fighter 2

Odd, I am running v2.9 but Virtua Fighter 2 sound effects are still missing, I do get music and the announcer. The rest of the titles mentioned I have no issues with.

@mike911 I got that list from the earlier Saturn thread - I haven't tested any myself. I'll test VF2 tonight to see what happens on my setup (where Saturn generally behaves itself quite well).

Out of interest - exactly how much RAM is required on the second RAM stick to run all dual-RAM cores available today, and how much for this MK core?

Are we talking the full 128MB? Or just a few KB/MB in practice?

cursedverses wrote: ↑Fri Dec 01, 2023 2:01 pm

Out of interest - exactly how much RAM is required on the second RAM stick to run all dual-RAM cores available today, and how much for this MK core?

Are we talking the full 128MB? Or just a few KB/MB in practice?

Right now the size of the second module is irrelevant, adding a second module just improves the overall memory bandwidth available on the GPIO pins. Most just use 128/32MB but any size module will work.

cursedverses wrote: ↑Fri Dec 01, 2023 2:01 pm

Out of interest - exactly how much RAM is required on the second RAM stick to run all dual-RAM cores available today, and how much for this MK core?

Are we talking the full 128MB? Or just a few KB/MB in practice?

There is no MK core

FPGA64 wrote: ↑Fri Dec 01, 2023 6:40 pm

cursedverses wrote: ↑Fri Dec 01, 2023 2:01 pm

Out of interest - exactly how much RAM is required on the second RAM stick to run all dual-RAM cores available today, and how much for this MK core?

Are we talking the full 128MB? Or just a few KB/MB in practice?

There is no MK core

Just to be clear, I thought this was WIP. Maybe things have changed, and life is busy!

AngelicLiver wrote: ↑Fri Dec 01, 2023 2:34 pm

cursedverses wrote: ↑Fri Dec 01, 2023 2:01 pm

Out of interest - exactly how much RAM is required on the second RAM stick to run all dual-RAM cores available today, and how much for this MK core?

Are we talking the full 128MB? Or just a few KB/MB in practice?

Right now the size of the second module is irrelevant, adding a second module just improves the overall memory bandwidth available on the GPIO pins. Most just use 128/32MB but any size module will work.

Oh I see. I remember (or at least I think I did) the PSX core being developed with the second memory stick serving audio (to avoid a small latency bringing it in from the DE10-Nano's SDRAM) as opposed to the two sticks being used to increase bandwidth on some way.

If the two are being paired together (e.g. DDR in more modern PCs) then I imagine I'd have to match the pairs.

If not, say, the PSX using one RAM module for system and another for audio, or a not yet complete system separating system and video/audio RAM, then we'd potentially only need a fraction of the 128MB that is used for e.g. NeoGeo for MiSTer's second GPIO slot.

I'd also assume a mismatched module for bandwidth expansion would be one troublesome if you matched a 128MB with a 32MB after the 32MB limit?

Sorry, the questions may seem stupid, but there's a lot of understanding to be had here.

rhester72 wrote: ↑Wed Nov 22, 2023 8:05 pm

FoxbatStargazer wrote: ↑Wed Nov 22, 2023 12:20 am

Saturn core hitting main has me reconsidering dual sticks. A lot of missing sound on my single stick solution.

Dual stick won't help (anymore), the core was resigned to do dual concurrent access to a single stick. That stick, however, MUST be V2.9 or above.

Yep this solved my dilemma, ordered a 3.0 from MisterAddons. I effectively have two sticks if I want to try that at some point, but hopefully I can stick with my VGA out for now.

I wonder how many other cores needing more bandwith could use a similar method for single-stick as in the Saturn core? Especially wonder about the test Jaguar build Kitrinix? put out that was much more playable with dual RAM.