MiSTer FPGA Forum

Any idea how much the all in one bundle will cost in advance? want to start setting aside because I don't imagine it'll be cheap with all the addons etc

ash2fpga wrote: ↑Sun Sep 12, 2021 8:07 pm How is the air flow (cooling) with case B?

It's good and will also cool any SDD / HDD / storage that's fitted to the CASE B design. The fan cooling in general is much more than required as the DE10 is also still fitted with heatsink, I tend to always run the fan at 3.3v so it's totally silent. You could probably even use a regular fan running at 3.3v and it would also be almost silent. That said, the Noctua is a nice fan and should last a very long time in this configuration, well worth the extra money.

peterkozmd wrote: ↑Sun Sep 12, 2021 10:45 pm Any idea how much the all in one bundle will cost in advance? want to start setting aside because I don't imagine it'll be cheap with all the addons etc

Neil is adding a pre-order page up on his website rmcretro.store in the next few weeks, that should list all the options for Multisystem + enclosure + Meanwell PSU etc.

The price for the Multisystem I/O motherboard is £141.66 (+UK VAT) - that comes with the Ethernet patch and Micro USB cables - you just to add a DE10-Nano and it's ready to go.

I prefer case B. Much more tidy.

Loving what I have seen of the Multisystem so far! I will be getting one.

crabfists wrote: ↑Mon Sep 13, 2021 9:11 am I prefer case B. Much more tidy.

Loving what I have seen of the Multisystem so far! I will be getting one.

Thank you, I can understand why case B is a tidier option, it's quite easy to internally route the SCART cable and for mass storage options. I still like the original case too.

We have had so much interest in the enclosure, it's going to be interesting to see how many people want to order the Multisystem with a case. I have a feeling there is a great opportunity for people to sell the enclosure to the community, if anyone reading has a 3D printer/s sitting idle you may want to consider this. It's welcome and encouraged.

I hope we will also see more designers making compatible Multisystem enclosures now that the 3D design is released.

Question: maybe is it an overlook from me, but I didn't see if the case, when ordered from the Multisystem site, was 3D printed or factory molded; which one is it?

Slipard wrote: ↑Mon Sep 13, 2021 9:32 am Question: maybe is it an overlook from me, but I didn't see if the case, when ordered from the Multisystem site, was 3D printed or factory molded; which one is it?

That's a great question, Initially the enclosure will need to be 3D printed, it's just the most sensible option until we can see if a tooled design is even a viable thing to do. Tooling would be quite expensive for an enclosure of this size and that also means it's fixed (we would have to decide on Option A or B for tooling). With 3D printing you can at least make changes or improvements without needing to change tooling.

It would be great to hear if people are happy with a 3D printed enclosure, I think it looks quite good in a matte finish, it's strong and I have tuned the quality for best print time/cost so it should be a viable option to print/sell without costing too much.

Yeah still waiting for the final price added up with board,power supply,case plus nano and i assume the extra addon modules. So literally everything included out the box. Really eager to know how much the complete cost will be for everything included. Anyone have any idea the total damage estimate for everything? 300? or upwards of 400 usd?

As far as 3d printed case? ehh..would much prefer they offer something more polished as a case instead of the coarse ugly looking 3d one personally maybe metal or acrylic

I noticed that the final board design is missing the two 10 pin headers next to the expansion port. Are these signals now lost, or have they been fully integrated into the slot?

peterkozmd wrote: ↑Mon Sep 13, 2021 1:11 pm Yeah still waiting for the final price added up with board,power supply,case plus nano and i assume the extra addon modules. So literally everything included out the box. Really eager to know how much the complete cost will be for everything included. Anyone have any idea the total damage estimate for everything? 300? or upwards of 400 usd?

Since the DE-10 Nano alone has now become a good 20% more expensive, it is better to count on 400 than 300 Dolloar. In my opinion, however, it makes no sense to purchase the DE10 there, it should actually be cheaper in the USA.

german_user wrote: ↑Mon Sep 13, 2021 2:16 pm I noticed that the final board design is missing the two 10 pin headers next to the expansion port. Are these signals now lost, or have they been fully integrated into the slot?

Yes, these were Low voltage versions of the High voltage SNAC and user ports, they have now been integrated into the expansion slot and you just have a physical switch to select if it's running the low voltage or high voltage expansion - it can also detect this switch position on the expansion slot so the software / core can know what's connected and how it should be used etc. It's also less likely to cause problems if it's all just the edge slot rather than the 10 pin headers, they would have been bent or shorted out at some point.

Short answer, they are not lost, just integrated and we also added all the spare I/O from the DE10-nano, even all the spare arduino and analogue pins that are not currently used on the MiSTer stack design, so future expansion can get quite interesting if the community and core dev's want to support it.

Cheers,

Richard.

Thank you very much for the detailed answer, then I am reassured.

german_user wrote: ↑Mon Sep 13, 2021 2:29 pm

peterkozmd wrote: ↑Mon Sep 13, 2021 1:11 pm Yeah still waiting for the final price added up with board,power supply,case plus nano and i assume the extra addon modules. So literally everything included out the box. Really eager to know how much the complete cost will be for everything included. Anyone have any idea the total damage estimate for everything? 300? or upwards of 400 usd?

Since the DE-10 Nano alone has now become a good 20% more expensive, it is better to count on 400 than 300 Dolloar. In my opinion, however, it makes no sense to purchase the DE10 there, it should actually be cheaper in the USA.

Yes, exactly. The DE10-nano will be lower cost in the US. They are imported into the UK / Europe and seem to have a higher cost here because of that. You can't get a 'Volume discount' unless you buy a really big number of them, the price the big distributors have it listed is a really good buy price for the DE10-Nano as it's also subsidised by Intel for the educational / university sector.

Buy your DE10-Nano (or a spare) as soon as you can. At some point the component supply will become more limited and the lead time for manufacture is likely to extend, even for the big US distributors.

Here's an amazon link i think i'll order from https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07B89YHSB/
Is this their any cheaper places to get this? also with this and the mister system i should be set right? Sorry new to this. Thanks for the help.

multisystem wrote: ↑Mon Sep 13, 2021 9:51 am

Slipard wrote: ↑Mon Sep 13, 2021 9:32 am Question: maybe is it an overlook from me, but I didn't see if the case, when ordered from the Multisystem site, was 3D printed or factory molded; which one is it?

That's a great question, Initially the enclosure will need to be 3D printed, it's just the most sensible option until we can see if a tooled design is even a viable thing to do. Tooling would be quite expensive for an enclosure of this size and that also means it's fixed (we would have to decide on Option A or B for tooling). With 3D printing you can at least make changes or improvements without needing to change tooling.

It would be great to hear if people are happy with a 3D printed enclosure, I think it looks quite good in a matte finish, it's strong and I have tuned the quality for best print time/cost so it should be a viable option to print/sell without costing too much.

In my opinion, some aspects of the design would unnecessarily increase tooling costs, I've reviewed the STL's a bit for fun... It looks like you would need a couple slides to accommodate the vents and openings from multiple angles, but I could be wrong. I'm not an expert, just work in plastics and see it from sort of that perspective. Was the 3d printable case designed with injection molding in mind?

Certainly looks very interesting. I do not use Twitter, so I hope I will hear about it on Facebook or here if it becomes available in some way.

multisystem wrote: ↑Mon Sep 13, 2021 9:51 am

Slipard wrote: ↑Mon Sep 13, 2021 9:32 am Question: maybe is it an overlook from me, but I didn't see if the case, when ordered from the Multisystem site, was 3D printed or factory molded; which one is it?

That's a great question, Initially the enclosure will need to be 3D printed, it's just the most sensible option until we can see if a tooled design is even a viable thing to do. Tooling would be quite expensive for an enclosure of this size and that also means it's fixed (we would have to decide on Option A or B for tooling). With 3D printing you can at least make changes or improvements without needing to change tooling.

It would be great to hear if people are happy with a 3D printed enclosure, I think it looks quite good in a matte finish, it's strong and I have tuned the quality for best print time/cost so it should be a viable option to print/sell without costing too much.

aberu wrote: ↑Mon Sep 13, 2021 5:16 pm Was the 3d printable case designed with injection molding in mind?

Exactly the opposite, I always design for the 3D printing process first, especially it it's going to be printed on FDM machines as they have even more limitations that SLS does not.

Some designers make the mistake of designing a moulded case, then expect it to be able to be FDM or SLA 3D printed for prototypes, that's not a good path even with powder based SLS Nylon 3D printing. It should be designed for the process you intend to use, even if it's only for prototypes.

It has been designed so that it could evolve into an injection moulded design if needed, but that's not always the best route for open source hardware projects as you still get much more flexibility and freedom with 3D printing. Especially at the moment when a component / connector may have to change due to shortages or obsolescence, if that does not fit your moulded case it's going to stop production.

aberu wrote: ↑Mon Sep 13, 2021 5:16 pm In my opinion, some aspects of the design would unnecessarily increase tooling costs, I've reviewed the STL's a bit for fun... It looks like you would need a couple slides to accommodate the vents and openings from multiple angles, but I could be wrong. I'm not an expert, just work in plastics and see it from sort of that perspective.

The 3D printed design currently has no draught angles for moulding and many of the wall thickness choices are specifically for the standard 0.4mm FDM nozzle size, so they produce strong walls and solid infill where needed. If it was changed to moulding lots of these things would be changed for the moulding process and to limit mould cooling problems and defects etc.


I do this with most projects, for example below is a product we recently started as 3D printed (Left of the image - it's specifically designed to 3D print quickly), then the design was altered to produce a 3D enclosure that was going to be tooled, this could be 3D printed (middle image) but it was just to prove the models were ready to be tooled. - Then the finished tooled case is on the Right.

peterkozmd wrote: ↑Mon Sep 13, 2021 4:28 pm Here's an amazon link i think i'll order from https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07B89YHSB/
Is this their any cheaper places to get this? also with this and the mister system i should be set right? Sorry new to this. Thanks for the help.

Dont see the amazon price, but mouser is about 171$ for the DE10-Nano Kit. Digikey is about 175$.

For the RGB video out on the SCART and VGA, how many bits is the color depth?

We are trying to make sure we have enough filament and the right colours in stock for launch, any feedback on what colour and case style you prefer would be most appreciated, thank you.

Style A or B -
And a close up of the 3D printed enclosure quality, the light highlights very small layer changes and tiny defects, you don't really see these with the eye but I want to give an idea of what we are aiming for - all top layers are smooth, layer height is 0.2mm and the finish is matte PLA.

These are not post processed, so they come off the 3D printer exactly as in the images, that way we can keep costs down and if anyone wants to sand/polish/smooth or paint they can do this themselves.

Neil is going to put up some poles to capture votes on Twitter if anyone also wishes to show a preference there, thank you.

Ultron wrote: ↑Tue Sep 14, 2021 12:17 pm For the RGB video out on the SCART and VGA, how many bits is the color depth?

It's exactly the same as the Analogue output of the MiSTer Analogue I/O board, so has the same depth, colour and compatibility.

At the moment I actually prefer the white case in its original form.

multisystem wrote: ↑Tue Sep 14, 2021 8:53 am The 3D printed design currently has no draught angles for moulding and many of the wall thickness choices are specifically for the standard 0.4mm FDM nozzle size, so they produce strong walls and solid infill where needed. If it was changed to moulding lots of these things would be changed for the moulding process and to limit mould cooling problems and defects etc.


I do this with most projects, for example below is a product we recently started as 3D printed (Left of the image - it's specifically designed to 3D print quickly), then the design was altered to produce a 3D enclosure that was going to be tooled, this could be 3D printed (middle image) but it was just to prove the models were ready to be tooled. - Then the finished tooled case is on the Right.

Very cool! Thanks for the insight. The company I work at is primarily doing prototyping and production of medical and gun parts (burning both ends of the candle I suppose) for mold design, tooling, molding, and finishing all in one shop. However, we are newer to the 3d printing game, mostly just use it internally for fixtures and end of arm attachments, so I was mostly commenting as a newbie even from my indirect experience, glad I recognized correctly that it was a DFAM part.

Wow!... very nice work, love the look of the case.

multisystem wrote: ↑Tue Sep 14, 2021 12:20 pm We are trying to make sure we have enough filament and the right colours in stock for launch, any feedback on what colour and case style you prefer would be most appreciated, thank you.

Style A or B -

And a close up of the 3D printed enclosure quality, the light highlights very small layer changes and tiny defects, you don't really see these with the eye but I want to give an idea of what we are aiming for - all top layers are smooth, layer height is 0.2mm and the finish is matte PLA.

These are not post processed, so they come off the 3D printer exactly as in the images, that way we can keep costs down and if anyone wants to sand/polish/smooth or paint they can do this themselves.

Neil is going to put up some poles to capture votes on Twitter if anyone also wishes to show a preference there, thank you.

Would buy definitely a white one Please let us know when we can order!

Gyruss wrote: ↑Fri Sep 17, 2021 4:38 pm

Would buy definitely a white one Please let us know when we can order!

Great, nice to see some interest in the White, I like it too.

Neil is putting up pre-orders for patrons from next Thursday 23rd Sep, and then anyone can order the following week - Thursday 30th.

Keep an eye on https://rmcretro.store/mister-multisystem/ for the order selection and pre order pages.

What type of plasic is used to 3D print the enclosure? I prefer the white variant (B) but I am a little concerned about its UV resistance. I don't want to end up with a yellowish case (years from now).

Using Memtest, what kind of frequencies are you getting as stable from the RAM?

Ariek wrote: ↑Sat Sep 18, 2021 10:10 am What type of plasic is used to 3D print the enclosure? I prefer the white variant (B) but I am a little concerned about its UV resistance. I don't want to end up with a yellowish case (years from now).

If that would happen with my white version over the years I will use retrobright like I did with my PC- engines before, they look brandnew after when it is done

multisystem wrote: ↑Tue Sep 14, 2021 12:20 pm We are trying to make sure we have enough filament and the right colours in stock for launch, any feedback on what colour and case style you prefer would be most appreciated, thank you.

Multisystem_enclosure_colour_options_vote1.jpg


Style A or B -

Multisystem_enclosure_style_options_vote2.jpg

And a close up of the 3D printed enclosure quality, the light highlights very small layer changes and tiny defects, you don't really see these with the eye but I want to give an idea of what we are aiming for - all top layers are smooth, layer height is 0.2mm and the finish is matte PLA.

These are not post processed, so they come off the 3D printer exactly as in the images, that way we can keep costs down and if anyone wants to sand/polish/smooth or paint they can do this themselves.

Multisystem_enclosure_close_up_finish_quality.jpg


Neil is going to put up some poles to capture votes on Twitter if anyone also wishes to show a preference there, thank you.

Style A is what I would take, looks so different then all other consoles, and the Mister FPGA is really different then all others