MiSTer FPGA Forum

dshadoff wrote: ↑Wed May 04, 2022 9:11 pm Does this adapter/circuit have the same problems/incompatibility with the Commodore 1701/1702 montiors that your other composite adapter has ?

I don't know because I have not that monitor to test. But someone with that monitor can try.

antoniovillena wrote: ↑Wed May 04, 2022 9:14 pm

dshadoff wrote: ↑Wed May 04, 2022 9:11 pm Does this adapter/circuit have the same problems/incompatibility with the Commodore 1701/1702 montiors that your other composite adapter has ?

I don't know because I have not that monitor to test. But someone with that monitor can try.

If you want to send me one, I can test it on my 1702 and let you know. If it works I'll buy it LOL.

Right now I'm using the method of component cable and the custom cores and it seems to work fine on the 1702.

shertz wrote: ↑Thu May 05, 2022 9:43 pm

antoniovillena wrote: ↑Wed May 04, 2022 9:14 pm

dshadoff wrote: ↑Wed May 04, 2022 9:11 pm Does this adapter/circuit have the same problems/incompatibility with the Commodore 1701/1702 montiors that your other composite adapter has ?

I don't know because I have not that monitor to test. But someone with that monitor can try.

If you want to send me one, I can test it on my 1702 and let you know. If it works I'll buy it LOL.

Right now I'm using the method of component cable and the custom cores and it seems to work fine on the 1702.

I will send one unit to a Spanish guy to test. If confirm working I will inform in this thread

antoniovillena wrote: ↑Wed May 04, 2022 9:12 pm No, as I know. But he can confirm.

How are you testing your units then, if not with Mike's cores?

matijaerceg wrote: ↑Thu May 05, 2022 10:00 pm

antoniovillena wrote: ↑Wed May 04, 2022 9:12 pm No, as I know. But he can confirm.

How are you testing your units then, if not with Mike's cores?

Yes. I've tested my units with Mike's cores. But I don't know if he implements luma trap for NTSC and PAL or only for one of them. We must wait his confirmation or when he publish his schematics

antoniovillena wrote: ↑Thu May 05, 2022 10:48 pm Yes. I've tested my units with Mike's cores. But I don't know if he implements luma trap for NTSC and PAL or only for one of them. We must wait his confirmation or when he publish his schematics

Ah, apologies, I must have misunderstood - I thought you were saying his cores don't send the 0 or 1 for pal/ntsc selection on pin 14. But now I understand that you're saying his cores work fine with your adapter.

Oh awesome another design

I have this almost ready to go as well, was just finishing up testing:

Except its for NTSC only, it uses a 6.8uH Inductor and a 300pF capacitor for the NTSC luma trap.

dshadoff wrote: ↑Wed May 04, 2022 9:11 pm Does this adapter/circuit have the same problems/incompatibility with the Commodore 1701/1702 montiors that your other composite adapter has ?

You don't need any adapters if you have a 1702, I designed the cores to work perfectly with my 1702, it was probably the main reason I worked on the Y/C framework.

You just need a VGA to component cable

I just managed to order one of antoniovillena's adapters. Really looking forward to trying this.

I hope there will be a VIC-20 core version with support for it as well, as that was my first computer, so composite will look closer to how I normally use it.

But more than that, I hope that this will become standard core functionality on MiSTer.

Just to understand: I have the VGA->Composite/S-Video adapter of Antonio (https://www.antoniovillena.es/store/pro ... o-adapter/) and I connect it via component to my Trinitron and I use the "normal" cores. What is the difference with the MikeS1 cores?

Thanks!

AmintaMister wrote: ↑Fri May 06, 2022 9:23 am Just to understand: I have the VGA->Composite/S-Video adapter of Antonio (https://www.antoniovillena.es/store/pro ... o-adapter/) and I connect it via component to my Trinitron and I use the "normal" cores. What is the difference with the MikeS1 cores?

Thanks!

This new technique, applied to the modified cores, outputs an Y/C signal directly from the VGA output, without any conversion (with a VGA to component cable you can use Y/C directly). For composite, it needs a luma trap added, so you don't get artifacts. This is what the much more simple adapter that Antonio also sells does (combines Y and C with a luma trap for composite, as well as providing an S-VHS connector and PAL/NTSC support).

LamerDeluxe wrote: ↑Fri May 06, 2022 9:27 am

AmintaMister wrote: ↑Fri May 06, 2022 9:23 am Just to understand: I have the VGA->Composite/S-Video adapter of Antonio (https://www.antoniovillena.es/store/pro ... o-adapter/) and I connect it via component to my Trinitron and I use the "normal" cores. What is the difference with the MikeS1 cores?

Thanks!

This new technique, applied to the modified cores, outputs an Y/C signal directly from the VGA output, without any conversion (with a VGA to component cable you can use Y/C directly). For composite, it needs a luma trap added, so you don't get artifacts. This is what the much more simple adapter that Antonio also sells does (combines Y and C with a luma trap for composite, as well as providing an S-VHS connector and PAL/NTSC support).

Thanks!

Lu now has a video about this...

https://youtu.be/DBy_XPmieKc

Lu's video says you need to go to s-video before composite, but I'm just going component straight to composite with no s-video in between. Am I going to break something doing it this way?

edit: apparently there's a possibility of damage, gonna grab those s-video cables

riblad_om wrote: ↑Sun May 08, 2022 3:18 am Lu's video says you need to go to s-video before composite, but I'm just going component straight to composite with no s-video in between. Am I going to break something doing it this way?

edit: apparently there's a possibility of damage, gonna grab those s-video cables

Out of curiosity, what would the risk of damage be?

I'm also using a VGA->Component to Composite with no S-Video between them. The result looks fine for NES/SNES/PCE, but MD/SCD/NG/PS1 cores have much more distracting rainbow banding and artifacts.

green_onion wrote: ↑Sun May 08, 2022 3:00 pm

riblad_om wrote: ↑Sun May 08, 2022 3:18 am Lu's video says you need to go to s-video before composite, but I'm just going component straight to composite with no s-video in between. Am I going to break something doing it this way?

edit: apparently there's a possibility of damage, gonna grab those s-video cables

Out of curiosity, what would the risk of damage be?

I'm also using a VGA->Component to Composite with no S-Video between them. The result looks fine for NES/SNES/PCE, but MD/SCD/NG/PS1 cores have much more distracting rainbow banding and artifacts.

You'll be outputting about .65 volts over spec. You'll basically slowly kill your TV circuitry over time running that way.

dmckean wrote: ↑Sun May 08, 2022 6:13 pm

green_onion wrote: ↑Sun May 08, 2022 3:00 pm

riblad_om wrote: ↑Sun May 08, 2022 3:18 am Lu's video says you need to go to s-video before composite, but I'm just going component straight to composite with no s-video in between. Am I going to break something doing it this way?

edit: apparently there's a possibility of damage, gonna grab those s-video cables

Out of curiosity, what would the risk of damage be?

I'm also using a VGA->Component to Composite with no S-Video between them. The result looks fine for NES/SNES/PCE, but MD/SCD/NG/PS1 cores have much more distracting rainbow banding and artifacts.

You'll be outputting about .65 volts over spec. You'll basically slowly kill your TV circuitry over time running that way.

Good to keep in mind. I'll look into adding an S-Video step to the chain. Thanks!

ZEZ has another video about this subject. This one is a little more in depth....

https://youtu.be/Swu4-LK8Fns

I received the adapter from Antonio today. I'm having a lot of color artifacts with it. I've been communicating with MikeS1, to correct dynamic color artifacts in PAL mode. But right now it looks like the luma trap might not be working correctly.

Also if you order it with a housing, the housing says PAL/NTSC vertically. But the switch works horizontally and switches between s-video and composite.

My advice would be to hold off on ordering right now, until it becomes clear what is causing the color artifacts.

LamerDeluxe wrote: ↑Tue May 10, 2022 8:33 pm I received the adapter from Antonio today. I'm having a lot of color artifacts with it. I've been communicating with MikeS1, to correct dynamic color artifacts in PAL mode. But right now it looks like the luma trap might not be working correctly.

Also if you order it with a housing, the housing says PAL/NTSC vertically. But the switch works horizontally and switches between s-video and composite.

My advice would be to hold off on ordering right now, until it becomes clear what is causing the color artifacts.

Hi. Thank you for the advice. I will halt the item without stock until MikeS1 receive his one and we can fix the problem. About housing I am using the same housing of the other adapter. In future designs I can flip the top to hide the PAL/NTSC texts by swapping the SVIDEO and Composite connectors.

antoniovillena wrote: ↑Tue May 10, 2022 8:49 pm

LamerDeluxe wrote: ↑Tue May 10, 2022 8:33 pm I received the adapter from Antonio today. I'm having a lot of color artifacts with it. I've been communicating with MikeS1, to correct dynamic color artifacts in PAL mode. But right now it looks like the luma trap might not be working correctly.

Also if you order it with a housing, the housing says PAL/NTSC vertically. But the switch works horizontally and switches between s-video and composite.

My advice would be to hold off on ordering right now, until it becomes clear what is causing the color artifacts.

Hi. Thank you for the advice. I will halt the item without stock until MikeS1 receive his one and we can fix the problem. About housing I am using the same housing of the other adapter. In future designs I can flip the top to hide the PAL/NTSC texts by swapping the SVIDEO and Composite connectors.

Antonio, how did you test your units exactly?

matijaerceg wrote: ↑Wed May 11, 2022 10:08 pm

antoniovillena wrote: ↑Tue May 10, 2022 8:49 pm

LamerDeluxe wrote: ↑Tue May 10, 2022 8:33 pm I received the adapter from Antonio today. I'm having a lot of color artifacts with it. I've been communicating with MikeS1, to correct dynamic color artifacts in PAL mode. But right now it looks like the luma trap might not be working correctly.

Also if you order it with a housing, the housing says PAL/NTSC vertically. But the switch works horizontally and switches between s-video and composite.

My advice would be to hold off on ordering right now, until it becomes clear what is causing the color artifacts.

Hi. Thank you for the advice. I will halt the item without stock until MikeS1 receive his one and we can fix the problem. About housing I am using the same housing of the other adapter. In future designs I can flip the top to hide the PAL/NTSC texts by swapping the SVIDEO and Composite connectors.

Antonio, how did you test your units exactly?

I've tried NES core with some games and I did not see nothing strange

antoniovillena wrote: ↑Wed May 11, 2022 10:55 pm

matijaerceg wrote: ↑Wed May 11, 2022 10:08 pm Antonio, how did you test your units exactly?

I've tried NES core with some games and I did not see nothing strange

NES doesn't have much rainbow artifacts to begin with.

Are you able to test Genesis core via composite (since it has a lot of rainbow artifacts via composite usually) and maybe post results?

matijaerceg wrote: ↑Wed May 11, 2022 11:02 pm Are you able to test Genesis core via composite (since it has a lot of rainbow artifacts via composite usually) and maybe post results?

Ok. I will try during this weekend. I consider discard this version of the cheapo board and when the new version it's available I'll replace (send new boards) to buyers of current one.

Yeah I got just got Antonio's adapter today and it doesn't look any different than just using component to s-video to composite. It is more convenient though, but It doesn't look like it has a luma trap.

passballtotucker wrote: ↑Fri May 13, 2022 12:59 am Yeah I got just got Antonio's adapter today and it doesn't look any different than just using component to s-video to composite. It is more convenient though, but It doesn't look like it has a luma trap.

Better wait for the revised board I guess.. Or for Mike's boards, which are actually being meticulously tested.

Thank you Mike for making these custom cores to use S-video. I have 2 Mitsubishi 33" Megaview PVM's, 2 Sony 19" PVM's, and about a half dozen monitors with component inputs. I gotta say that I am really enjoying playing my MiSTer on my Commodore 1702 monitor. This is to me true nostalgia. I grew in the 80's playing on home computers and consoles on a 13" screen. Its an added bonus that i now get to play them on nice crisp S-video. Thanks again for all your effort. Looking forward to getting your S-video/ composite dongle.

P.S. please add the odyssey2 to your list of cores.

The 1702 is why I started this journey

I'lll add the Odyssey2 and a couple more this weekend . I've been spending too much time trying to prototype different breakout board designs. But happy I have one out open source right now.

Has anyone come up with an elegant solution to the Arcade cores? Right now it seems like you have to put them in the arcade folder, eyeball version numbers to make sure you delete the right thing, then make sure you don't update your arcade cores so they don't get replaced, but I don't really know how the mister file structure works.

riblad_om wrote: ↑Sat May 14, 2022 4:49 am Has anyone come up with an elegant solution to the Arcade cores? Right now it seems like you have to put them in the arcade folder, eyeball version numbers to make sure you delete the right thing, then make sure you don't update your arcade cores so they don't get replaced, but I don't really know how the mister file structure works.

Maybe put it into an _ArcadeYC folder? See https://www.atari-forum.com/viewtopic.php?t=34832