MiSTer FPGA Forum

What bollox. A Pi 5 connected to a CRT, and every emulator configured to run in native resolution (224p/240p/288p) for each system, will have about the same latency as a Mister connected to a modern LCD. The FPGA snobbery on here is pathetic.

You obviously have no clue what you are talking about. This is fine bye me. But don't think people will believe this uninformed nonsense for a second. At that point this thread is already a travesty show. Sad but true. Don't really know why emulator only fans (and i like advanced and sophisticated software emulators a lot, not this mainly for speed optimized Pi emulators though.) have to troll in a MiSTer forum. But that's the internet i guess..

Krypto wrote: ↑Fri Sep 13, 2024 11:30 pm

It's sad that with over 81 posts in this topic not one of them is about first hand experience with the new MiSTer Pi board. That would be actually interesting and useful information.

For myself, I've had my own MiSTer stack for over 4 years and it was money well spent. It's also great that other manufacturers besides Terasic are now producing MiSTer compatible boards.

DHL delivered my MiSTer Pi yesterday at almost 20:00, I was supposed to have gotten it 1 or 2 days before that, God I hate 3rd party shipping companies. Anyway, I'm setting it up on my QLED TV as I'm typing this and I should be able to give some feedback on it. I had DE10 since January 2019, so I had enough time to know how it runs classic games and should be able to see and feel if there's any differences.

Yes, I remember latency well, there I was, going into WH Smiths in 82, going onto a spectrum, typing 10 PRINT "hello". 20 GOTO 10. Thinking, this is 0,0000000001ms slower than my Sepctrum at home, or 0.0000000001ms faster than the one in Dixons

All FPGA projects and all emulators have their plusses and minuses, as does the real hardware. The 64 being a perfect example, the 6581s R1- to R4 had as much as 30% difference in it's circuitry as the same machine beside another one. Ben Daglish told me that.

Just be grateful we now have 3 choices, I've got the real hardware still, FPGA devices, and all emulators. I pick and choose the way it feels to me.
If arcades floats yer boat, just buy the jamma boards and it'll be perfect for you. Or create your own FPGA and cores.

All the best funsters, remember the rules of the forum, play nicely.

One of the things I love about the MiSTer community is that we mostly all get along and are very civil towards each other. I hope that is not changing with the MiSTer Pi and more and more people joining the community. Disagreements are great and welcomed. How we handle those situations is what matters.

Just a quick comment on my take, Groovy MiSTer has shown that the MiSTer eliminates lag compared to natively running on the local display because the local display drivers are slower than the MiSTer is over the network. It's hard to believe but true. So therefore, Native MiSTer on CRT > Groovy MiSTer on CRT > Software Emulation on CRT - for sure. How an LCD plays into this depends on the latency of the LCD but it should add the same lag to any setup since it is a fixed amount of lag. To say that software emulation with a CRT is the same as MiSTer with an LCD is possible, but it totally depends on how much lag the LCD has. This is only regarding the display. Controller input lag is another separate discussion. Quickly: SNAC can't be beat.

As far as MiSTer Pi vs. DE10-nano, it's essentially a wash and not worth squabbling about in my opinion.

if that is taki’s board your getting ripped off. i would buy directly from him.

Retro-Nerd wrote: ↑Sat Sep 14, 2024 10:13 pm

What bollox. A Pi 5 connected to a CRT, and every emulator configured to run in native resolution (224p/240p/288p) for each system, will have about the same latency as a Mister connected to a modern LCD. The FPGA snobbery on here is pathetic.

You obviously have no clue what you are talking about. This is fine bye me. But don't think people will believe this uninformed nonsense for a second. At that point this thread is already a travesty show. Sad but true. Don't really know why emulator only fans (and i like advanced and sophisticated software emulators a lot, not this mainly for speed optimized Pi emulators though.) have to troll in a MiSTer forum. But that's the internet i guess..

it’s nothing to do with a rasp pi. unfortunate name choice.

markboston38 wrote: ↑Sun Sep 15, 2024 3:13 am

it’s nothing to do with a rasp pi. unfortunate name choice.

Nobody confuses that. But this "Use a cheap Raspi setup with software emulators (btw. a Raspi 5 istn't that cheap in the first place) and you don't need a FGPA based solution anymore" argument is silly and pointless. Two different audiences. The first just want to play, the latter want the best accuracy/timing/authentic sound etc. and the lowest possible latency. Nothing that performance optimized software emulators for ARM SoCs could achieve.

Mister Pi (yes, lousy name) is good for the retro gaming scene. Don't know why smartasses and generally miserable persons tries to torpedo that with stupid discussions.

Bristles wrote: ↑Sat Sep 14, 2024 8:37 pm

What bollox. A Pi 5 connected to a CRT, and every emulator configured to run in native resolution (224p/240p/288p) for each system, will have about the same latency as a Mister connected to a modern LCD. The FPGA snobbery on here is pathetic.

That is categorically untrue. Without run-ahead, there's guaranteed frames of emulation latency, plus input latency (that can't be 'overclocked' as on MiSTer and no SNAC) and display latency (which isn't possible to address due to the Pi's video subsystem).

You're also completely ignoring that (particularly for arcade codes) custom refresh rates were very much the norm in the real world...and very, VERY difficult to get right on the Pi. I've done it, but I also know what I'm doing and am unafraid to reprogram low-level video drivers to achieve the intended refresh. Play MK1 on your Pi and let me know how that character selection screen looks to you at any resolution.

Don't get me wrong, I don't think there's anything at all wrong with casual Pi gaming, but from accuracy to latency, it's silly to even suggest it's equivalent.

Facts are facts. Many facts have already been agreed upon. Without measurements or technical proof, the rest is up for almost meaningless but still fine debate, and the experience of how it looks or feels may/will be different from person to person on how equivalent things are. People more sensitive to actual differences are most likely correct. People more set in their ways and sensitive to their beliefs being upended are more likely to be incorrect. Not saying who's right here, just that lack of provable facts makes it an endless discussion that hopefully remains civil.

Regarding the community, for a person with only 89 posts so far, I could understand why they would not yet feel part of the (much smaller but still very real) community. I get on with plenty of people here and tolerate a few too.

Retro-Nerd wrote: ↑Sun Sep 15, 2024 3:29 am

markboston38 wrote: ↑Sun Sep 15, 2024 3:13 am

it’s nothing to do with a rasp pi. unfortunate name choice.

Nobody confuses that. But this "Use a cheap Raspi setup with software emulators (btw. a Raspi 5 istn't that cheap in the first place) and you don't need a FGPA based solution anymore" argument is silly and pointless. Two different audiences. The first just want to play, the latter want the best accuracy/timing/authentic sound etc. and the lowest possible latency.

Exactly!

Retro-Nerd wrote: ↑Sun Sep 15, 2024 3:29 am

Mister Pi (yes, lousy name) is good for the retro gaming scene. Don't know why smartasses and generally miserable persons tries to torpedo that with stupid discussions.

Because I (we?), as you said, "want the best accuracy/timing/authentic sound etc. and the lowest possible latency". And the fact, that MisterPi runs cores faster than Mister on DE10-Nano, and faster than the difference in quartz tolerance (2-3 frames per few minutes vs 2-3 frames per hour) would suggest, makes me worried about "the best accuracy/timing/authentic sound etc", and also about lightgun compatibility and speedrunning suitability.

Oh, and thank you for calling me a "miserable person" for shaking your faith in the possibility of making the deal of a lifetime by buying expensive fpga board a few bucks cheaper.

Best hint i could give you: Stay away from Takis products, when you are convinced (obviously by plain watching youtube clips with pointless comparison methods) that this new boards aren't good enough for you. Use the offical DE10 Nano, problem solved.

btw: i didn't call you anything. But if you want to put on the shoe... I really don't get it. We live in amazing times when it comes to Retro Gaming. So many different choices to play your favorite games, from cheap (software emulators) to really expensive (collecting real Neo Geo i.e.). But this thread isn't exactly a positive example for people having fun with just that. People complaining about things that they didn't even seen (in real)/tested yet can get really tedious at times. Read again what limi wrote. There is nothing more to add.

@Retro-Nerd
What an aggressive person!
You didn't refute any arguments and you didn't answer any question, but you gave me a lovely hint. How sweet.

Maybe I'll take your advice. After all, I don't want to hurt Taka's business that you're so worried about. I'd rather go back to spending my hard-earned money on consoles, PCBs, and scalers. At least I know what I'm buying and I'm not distracting people waiting for an untested FPGA solution to arrive so they can become better people.

I guess that I cannot count on reading here comprehensive review of Taki's clone, so ok.
Thank you for your advice and I hope that your purchase fulfills your expectations. with that attitude, it can't let you down.

This was already too aggressive? Well, sorry to hear that. But what were your really expecting here? Given the fact that you are are doing nothing else than paranoid talk, about uncertain/unverified potential flaws in Takis new board by watching/judging a clip. There will be comprehensive reviews of his clone for sure. But i doubt that many will go into detail about "faster frames" that you are so afraid of (compared to the offical boards).

Thank you for your advice and I hope that your purchase fulfills your expectations

You are welcome. Time will tell if the later handheld will fullfill my expectations. When it comes to portables i'm hard to please. Depends on the built quality, display, ergonomy, weight etc. But i'm in good spirits that i'll be satisfied with it. For me it's more interesting than the Analogue pocket.

I am quoting myself because today i can tell with security that total price on Italy country is about 193/197 euro), VAT and shipping included and with no custom fees to pay when delivered, my friend just received his one today).
Price can change slightly for euro / dollar currency exchange.

lroby74 wrote: ↑Wed Sep 04, 2024 8:26 pm

Be careful, 160$ + IVA + custom fee and shipping..
Without microSD card, without case, without VGA Scart cable and without someone that had already mounted and tested it for you like Manufehri for example.
Price will be still good but not so good anymore like it may seems to

kathleen wrote: ↑Tue Sep 03, 2024 4:52 pm

While I was surfing on the web, I found a video showing a Mister PI.
I looked deeper and I found this ; https://retroremake.co/products/mister- ... -mega-pack
Does it tell something to anyone ? The price seems to be quite low compared to a full Mister kit.
They claim that MiSTER Pi is a fully compatible MiSTer FPGA development board. If this is really the case then this is not bad at all.

If there was no thrust in Taki's Clone, they would have not sold out not so fast.
Next batch will also sold out fast, i am sure.

The quartz will not only have variations due to tolerances, it will for example drift with temperature as well. That is all perfectly normal. Real machines will drift like that between each other, too.

If one wants to fix such quartz drift, one could of course buy a multi-thousand dollar research grade Rubidium oscillator atomic-clock and hook it up to the MiSTer as external clk signal lol

Anyone knows if the Multisystem is compatible with Taki's DE10 clone?

limi wrote: ↑Fri Sep 06, 2024 3:09 pm

limi wrote: ↑Fri Sep 13, 2024 2:25 pm

lroby74 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 16, 2024 7:02 pm

I am quoting myself because today i can tell with security that total price on Italy country is about 193/197 euro), VAT and shipping included and with no custom fees to pay when delivered, my friend just received his one today).
Price can change slightly for euro / dollar currency exchange.

How did your friend avoided custom fees? Is that something possible for everyone in Europe?

Today, I see a Terasic at 231,28€ at Mouser, VAT and shipping included. I hope there'll be a better way to get Taki's boards here soon...

He didn't nothing particular, simply courier delivered his package without asking money

Yop wrote: ↑Fri Sep 20, 2024 2:04 am

How did your friend avoided custom fees? Is that something possible for everyone in Europe?
Today, I see a Terasic at 231,28€ at Mouser, VAT and shipping included. I hope there'll be a better way to get Taki's boards here soon...

Yop wrote: ↑Fri Sep 20, 2024 2:04 am

lroby74 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 16, 2024 7:02 pm

I am quoting myself because today i can tell with security that total price on Italy country is about 193/197 euro), VAT and shipping included and with no custom fees to pay when delivered, my friend just received his one today).
Price can change slightly for euro / dollar currency exchange.

How did your friend avoided custom fees? Is that something possible for everyone in Europe?

Today, I see a Terasic at 231,28€ at Mouser, VAT and shipping included. I hope there'll be a better way to get Taki's boards here soon...

In Switzerland everything tha comes from China does not go through VAT and Tax.

Just curious, is it possible to put the system buttons on Taki's fan board:
https://retroremake.co/cdn/shop/files/r ... width=1646

Haven’t taken the plunge yet into Mister, so I’m happy to see the new Mister Pi! I have a CRT monitor that only has composite. For the DE-10 I was planning on using MisterAddons IO analog pro due to the single Saturn AV cable. So 2 questions:

1. Can I use MisterAddons IO Analog Pro board with the Mister PI?
2. If not or not recommended, what cable / dongle setup should I use for accurate composite out with the Mister Pi?

Waifu4Life wrote: ↑Fri Sep 20, 2024 5:40 pm

Just curious, is it possible to put the system buttons on Taki's fan board:
https://retroremake.co/cdn/shop/files/r ... width=1646

Yes. I've done that, in fact. Bridge the 5th and 6th pin on the outside with a jumper (pins 10+12) to tell the board that the analog addon board is installed.
Pins 1, 3 and 5 are the LEDs (the resistors are even preinstalled already), pins 13, 15 and 17 are the buttons.
Install a wire from each of those pins to the "Ext. Button/Ext. LED" header pins and they'll work. You can see the three pins each that were used in my photo, I soldered them from below.

neogeo81 wrote: ↑Fri Sep 20, 2024 6:49 am

Yop wrote: ↑Fri Sep 20, 2024 2:04 am

lroby74 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 16, 2024 7:02 pm

I am quoting myself because today i can tell with security that total price on Italy country is about 193/197 euro), VAT and shipping included and with no custom fees to pay when delivered, my friend just received his one today).
Price can change slightly for euro / dollar currency exchange.

How did your friend avoided custom fees? Is that something possible for everyone in Europe?

Today, I see a Terasic at 231,28€ at Mouser, VAT and shipping included. I hope there'll be a better way to get Taki's boards here soon...

In Switzerland everything tha comes from China does not go through VAT and Tax.

Sorry, I meant European Union. If I remember well, Switzerland is in Schengen space but not in UE, so importation rules wouldn't the same.

Its just luck, if you dont have to pay taxes, but can happen. I had some time ago the issue, that i payed taxes allready via ebay and dhl want the taxes also. The seller makes a wrong mark about the tax in his declaration. So i had to pay dhl too, to get my parcel. Ebay paid my taxes back, so all was good.

Waifu4Life wrote: ↑Thu Sep 19, 2024 11:49 pm

Anyone knows if the Multisystem is compatible with Taki's DE10 clone?

Ricardo from ultimatemister wrote that Taki clone is runing fine with MMS.
But he meantioned that one connector is in the way for the smaller (not so high) cases and that had to be removed from the clone. This connector is for powering the taki usb board.
Furthermore there are some problems with the style of the new usb connector, that makes cableing more difficult. Perhaps there is another revision in preperation.
Hope that helps

Arakon wrote: ↑Sat Sep 21, 2024 2:24 pm

Yes. I've done that, in fact. Bridge the 5th and 6th pin on the outside with a jumper (pins 10+12) to tell the board that the analog addon board is installed.
Pins 1, 3 and 5 are the LEDs (the resistors are even preinstalled already), pins 13, 15 and 17 are the buttons.
Install a wire from each of those pins to the "Ext. Button/Ext. LED" header pins and they'll work. You can see the three pins each that were used in my photo, I soldered them from below.
PXL_20240921_141553228.jpg

Thank you, I'll see with my friend if he's able to do this or if I should just order an IO board once Taki offer's his free case.

Cheers

german_user wrote: ↑Sun Sep 22, 2024 2:20 am

Ricardo from ultimatemister wrote that Taki clone is runing fine with MMS.
But he meantioned that one connector is in the way for the smaller (not so high) cases and that had to be removed from the clone. This connector is for powering the taki usb board.
Furthermore there are some problems with the style of the new usb connector, that makes cableing more difficult. Perhaps there is another revision in preperation.
Hope that helps

Yes, I've read his post, but he's selling the kit for more than I paid for originally for my DE10-Nano and I though it would have gotten cheaper with time. So I'll stick with the free case that Taki will provide me.

Cheers

For what it's worth, I've bought the MiSTer Pi as my second setup, and everything has been smooth sailing so far. It feels exactly like a stock de-10 nano. I initially thought mine was dead because I connected power to the wrong USB-C connector... That's the only issue I've had, really!

I'm stoked that the barrier for entry has been lowered for the MiSTer project.

I'll be happy to answer any questions, since it seems many people on this thread don't have first-hand experience with the device.