C64 core maturity vs alternatives

[seastalker]

I have a real C64 shortboard version and a MK2 board revision and was looking at the Ultimate 64 board for a while. I had looked at the Turbo Chameleon in the past as well but with Mister, I personally look at it with its dock and find the Mister more appealing. I get it that using any such solution with a real C64 keyboard feels more authentic, though you can put a Mister in a C64, C64c or various Amiga cases with a Keyrah for similar usage. The Mega65 cases may also be amazing (especially though not exclusively if able to somehow introduce 3.5 inch floppy support).

AFAIK, the Mister core can do RGB so that at least matches if not surpasses other options. At this point in the game, is there any advantage to the alternatives other than not being able to 'plug' a Mister into a real C64?

[ericgus09]

the Ultimate 64 has more options, like internal REU support, it now has a variable "turbo" mode so you can run stuff up to 48mhz. you can of course also use real 64 external drives, actual cartridges, tape drive, has disk drive sound emulation (either via the audio or a speaker module on the mobo), has 8 hardware SIDS and sockets for using 2 real sids, LED light strip synced to the SID, etc.... it has a bunch of built in cartridges, it has printer emulation, and a lot of other features that differentiate it from the Mister implementation... I would say "feature wise" the Ultimate 64 is far ahead, that said the Mister version is "capable" and does the stock machine well but they each fill a certain niche, but I would say the Ultimate is further ahead overall .. both are good .. either would do you well ..

[tomxp411]

The Ultimate 64 is definitely a better choice, if you're primarily looking for Commodore 64 compatibility.

The U64 has the best 1541 disk drive emulation on FPGA, and you can also hook up a real IEC drive if needed. It also has slots for real SID chips, 9-pin joystick ports, a real cartridge slot (in addition to cartridge emulation), networking (including Swiftlink emulation) and a few other small features not present on the MiSTer core. There's also the new 48MHz CPU, which outpaces any other 6502 implementation that I'm aware of.

At this point, the Ultimate 64 is the single most powerful Commodore 64 implementation anywhere. The only advantage the Turbo Chameleon used to have was the CPU accelerator, and Gideon destroyed that advantage with the recent 48MHz turbo CPU.

Now if you want to emulate any other systems, in addition to the 64, the MiSTer is a good buy, and I'm not saying you shouldn't buy a MiSTer for all the other stuff it does. But the C64 on MiSTer is pretty barebones compared to the Ultimate.

[akeley]

But the C64 on MiSTer is pretty barebones compared to the Ultimate.

That's correct, but only if you're interested in connecting external hardware. Comparing software compatibility and general accuracy is another matter though, which is what "core maturity" refers to. Does FDD compatibility affect that?

I'd be interested to hear how "complete" C64 core really is.

[Insert Disk Two]

One advantage that MiSTer core has is that you get proper integer scaling. If I remember correctly Ultimate 64 outputs 576p only and is up to your display to stretch the picture, and this may add lag. Also, I have experienced there problem that some TVs won't give you a 4:3 option (I'm looking at you, Panasonic) and you get a stretched picture.

[Bas]

With the recent slew of updates on MiSTer, how does it stack up now? REU support is there, IEC connectable, SID fixes..

[ericgus09]

With the recent slew of updates on MiSTer, how does it stack up now? REU support is there, IEC connectable, SID fixes..

I still use the Ultimate 64 for one really amazing feature for me, PAL60 ...

Since I use my U64 on a real CRT (an NTSC/North American 1702 CRT specifically - I live in the USA) .. trying to get PAL games etc to display is not normally a do-able thing, PAL60 resolves this, its "pal video but formatted for 60hz/ntsc displays", you can run the U64 in PAL mode but out put the analog video at 60hz and with the right signals for an NTSC CRT to work perfectly and looks great on my NTSC Commodore 1702 CRT monitor ... There is also an NTSC50 mode for folks who live in PAL land.. (run your U64 in NTSC mode but output a pal compatible "ntsc 50hz" output)..

the U64 has a lot of other nice features and the whole form factor .. eg you can use original drives, carts, etc with it .. and it uses a real keyboard.. amongst other things..

Honestly I see them as complementary to each other .. and which I use depends on the experience I want .. but at the end of the day my "go to" is my U64 all other things being equal ..

[grizzly]

How does the 50 to 60hz conversion do in terms of accuracy and no skips/hops/judders in the PAL60hz mode?
Or is the "computer" speed up so it runs at 60hz speed?

My experience from what i remember at watching 25/50hz stuff (mainly video) on a 60hz screen is faaaaaaaarrr from good!

[ericgus09]

The computer speed is what you would expect for the mode (i.e. PAL runs at 50hz despite having 60hz video out) .. so it runs "normally" basically what you would expect it to run like, what he has done is put in a light weight OSSC-esque mini scaler for analog video into the U64 and it works quite well.

[Grumpy-Old-Gamer]

The turbo chameleon is the most mature core being in development since 2012/13

It's also a great when used with a original C64 and has other cores available including RTG AGA mining unlike the U64

MiSTers C64 core is based on FPGA64 which was made for the Turbo Chameleon predecessor the C-One nearly 20 years ago but is the only open source C64 core

[dshadoff]

I don’t think lineage has so much to do with things after significant updates take place (as has just happened).

The real question here should be.... “has anybody here done compatibility testing since the recent updates, to identify strengths/weaknesses ?” Because that was the goal, and that’s what should be measured.

[akeley]

I've tried literally hundreds of C64 games from 1982-1983 (plus quite a few of later ones), do not recall a single problem. This was before the latest changes. Not saying there aren't any issues, of course, just that they usually crop up in old games.

I'm using a PAL/NTSC capable CRT TV, there's zero stutter or any other artifacts. The only drawback was the narrower border issue, but this has been fixed recently.