MiSTer FPGA Forum

Posted: **Sat Aug 29, 2020 10:40 am**

Hello everyone

I'm a little bit confused with all the information im getting from here and there so I would like to ask for some help on these questions:

- Where to get a mister kit in Europe ? I have seen a couple of sites but I cant tell which one is the official one...

- I am not sure if mister comes with the required software all set up? or you have to download it from somewhere else? any step by step guides around?

- I need a Jamma adapter, then I have seen J-Pac, I-Pac and JammASD thing ... there about about the same price but I dont get what the differences are between these

thank you so much in advance

Posted: **Sat Aug 29, 2020 12:19 pm**

I'm very, very new to this myself, but...

https://github.com/MiSTer-devel/Main_Mi ... etup-Guide seems to be a good place to start with the MiSTer. And then either the Direct Video page about setting up RGB signals - https://github.com/MiSTer-devel/Main_Mi ... rect-Video - or buying an I/O board to get analog video from its VGA port without the need for an HDMI converter.

You could then -in theory- use a J-Pac which will take RGBHV (VGA-plug) input (no need for composite sync from the MiSTer) and simply plug the jamma edge into your cab and the USB connection into the MiSTer. The J-pac also has a few extra inputs for more arcade buttons so you don't need a kick-harness. I say in theory about all this, as the J-Pac's can be a bit temperamental. I'd google to find out if anyone else is using one with a MiSTer, and exactly how.

An I-Pac is a keyboard encoder that allows arcade buttons (or any simply switches) to be conencted to a PC. No idea what a JammASD is though.

Posted: **Sat Aug 29, 2020 1:04 pm**

DrKucho wrote: ↑Sat Aug 29, 2020 10:40 am - Where to get a mister kit in Europe ? I have seen a couple of sites but I cant tell which one is the official one...

Please look at the Sellers section of this forum. There is no single official site, but rather a few vendors that are trusted by the community.

- I am not sure if mister comes with the required software all set up?

It doesn't. Look at the MiSTer wiki for instructions.

- I need a Jamma adapter, then I have seen J-Pac, I-Pac and JammASD thing

Look at the Ultimarc webpage. I-Pac is just a USB adapter, J-Pac in addition connects to the Jamma edge and accepts RGB/VGA input, and JanmASD seems to be another device like the J-Pac with maybe more features. I can't tell you which one is better for you, it all depends on what you already have and your level of technical skill.

Posted: **Sat Aug 29, 2020 1:14 pm**

DrKucho wrote: ↑Sat Aug 29, 2020 10:40 am - I need a Jamma adapter, then I have seen J-Pac, I-Pac and JammASD thing ... there about about the same price but I dont get what the differences are between these

If you go with the J-Pac you should be able to connect natively to the arcade monitor. If you go with an IPac you will need another method of outputting video to the monitor. IPAC is good if you've already addressed your video output needs and just need the control interface. I am doing an arcade build and went with the JPAC. I'll post up to the forum with results when I'm done.

Posted: **Sat Aug 29, 2020 2:53 pm**

thank you all for the responses

I dont get the J-pac video feature, can't I take the R-G-B-Sync signals from the VGA connector of the Mister IO board?

Posted: **Sat Aug 29, 2020 3:01 pm**

Please look at the Sellers section of this forum. There is no single official site, but rather a few vendors that are trusted by the community.

but these vendors need to get the boards from someone... or each one manufacture their own units by a standard mister specs ?

Posted: **Sat Aug 29, 2020 6:05 pm**

DrKucho wrote: ↑Sat Aug 29, 2020 3:01 pm but these vendors need to get the boards from someone... or each one manufacture their own units by a standard mister specs ?

They make their own. MiSTer is open hardware, anybody can make and sell the parts.
https://github.com/MiSTer-devel/Main_Mi ... don-boards

There are some sellers who do not respect the spec and make their own modifications, though. Those create compatibility problems or require custom versions of the build/firmware, but sadly many feel justified for making those changes in name of one or another feature they deem convenient.

Posted: **Sat Aug 29, 2020 6:09 pm**

DrKucho wrote: ↑Sat Aug 29, 2020 3:01 pm but these vendors need to get the boards from someone... or each one manufacture their own units by a standard mister specs ?

Anyone is free to build any of the MiSTer project boards, circuit diagrams along with gerber PCB files are all provided in the hardware section of the projects GitHub.

In my case, every board I sell is built in house by myself, each and every one is hand made and hand tested.

Posted: **Sat Aug 29, 2020 11:52 pm**

DrKucho wrote: ↑Sat Aug 29, 2020 2:53 pm I dont get the J-pac video feature, can't I take the R-G-B-Sync signals from the VGA connector of the Mister IO board?

Probably not. The spec is a 0.7Vp-p signal so i imagine that's what the mister is producing, and the arcade chassis probably wants about 1.5Vp-p minimum. The J-Pac acts as an amplifier for the RGB lines, among other things. And it means you don't have to mess with the wiring already in the cab at all.

You could also knock up your own amp much cheaper from something like a THS7374 (or if you'd prefer not to solder at that pitch, a THS7314 is almost as nice). You'll probably only need to amp the RGB lines, and not sync.

One other benefit of the J-pac is that it will simply take a VGA (DB15HD/HD15) plug, and merge the syncs for you. Which is one area i'm dickering with right now. This is assuming the J-Pac works as described.

Posted: **Sun Aug 30, 2020 7:24 am**

Thank you all again , with your responses my understanding of the mister world is getting much better

I’ve been checking again the JammASD , they call it the European J-PAC , which simplifies things for me a lot LOL, but there is this thing that scares me a little, they say that once connected the pc will see it as a keyboard and all the arcade joystick and button pressings will go trough as keystrokes ... and thinking about input lag, I’ve read that keyboards usually have more lag than game controllers because their usb driver is not programmed the same way or ... I don’t really remember it in detail ... but it made sense to me when I read it cause a game controller is expected to be read as fast as posible.

Any Thoughts/Facts?

Posted: **Sun Aug 30, 2020 10:56 am**

DrKucho wrote: ↑Sun Aug 30, 2020 7:24 am Once connected the pc will see it as a keyboard and all the arcade joystick and button pressings will go trough as keystrokes ... and thinking about input lag,

There is no way to know that unless somebody tests JammASD with the lag measuring tools.

If lag is a major concern and you don't want to risk it, then you are better off using one of the official proven solutions, like making a Deamonbyte adapter. See here: https://github.com/MiSTer-devel/Retro-C ... USB-MiSTer

Posted: **Sun Aug 30, 2020 2:42 pm**

Thanks it’s interesting and doesn’t seem dificult to build one of those Arduino usb things

But I would like to simplify going with something like the j pac , been googling a little and I found that j pac is also mapped as keyboard but seems to be no complains about j pac input lag , on the contrary I found this about jammasd

http://www.arcadeshop.de/product_review ... anguage=en

It’s hard to believe a device that has been made almost to clone the j pac works this bad? I wonder if it’s just that unit the guy got that is defected.

Posted: **Sun Aug 30, 2020 3:10 pm**

Actually you don't want the JammASD... I just looked more into it, and it turns out that it's PS/2 only... so you need a USB converter. Those converters are the culprits for the lag. Here's a thread that discusses it: https://forum.arcadeotaku.com/viewtopic.php?t=11135

J-Pac is native USB, so looks like a much better choice.

Posted: **Sun Aug 30, 2020 9:27 pm**

Why not just make a simple Arduino Micro converter from bare buttons to USB?
It's guaranteed for lowest possible latency (~1ms) and can be modified for specific needs as it's open source.

Posted: **Tue Sep 01, 2020 9:49 am**

Newsdee wrote: ↑Sun Aug 30, 2020 3:10 pm Actually you don't want the JammASD... I just looked more into it, and it turns out that it's PS/2 only... so you need a USB converter. Those converters are the culprits for the lag. Here's a thread that discusses it: https://forum.arcadeotaku.com/viewtopic.php?t=11135

J-Pac is native USB, so looks like a much better choice.

OMG! well spotted

Posted: **Tue Sep 01, 2020 9:50 am**

Sorgelig wrote: ↑Sun Aug 30, 2020 9:27 pm Why not just make a simple Arduino Micro converter from bare buttons to USB?
It's guaranteed for lowest possible latency (~1ms) and can be modified for specific needs as it's open source.

Because I would need a video amp ? Not sure I would really need it but apparently I will

Posted: **Tue Sep 01, 2020 10:04 am**

I was talking about input only. Probably you can use whatever you want for video either jammaSD or j-Pac. But for inputs you can make a converter with Arduino Micro.

Posted: **Tue Sep 01, 2020 11:40 am**

I wonder if the Console JAMMAizer! could be used with MiSTer for this purpose. It uses a THS7375 amplifier.

Posted: **Tue Sep 01, 2020 9:35 pm**

Newsdee wrote: ↑Sun Aug 30, 2020 3:10 pm Actually you don't want the JammASD... I just looked more into it, and it turns out that it's PS/2 only... so you need a USB converter. Those converters are the culprits for the lag. Here's a thread that discusses it: https://forum.arcadeotaku.com/viewtopic.php?t=11135

J-Pac is native USB, so looks like a much better choice.

Uhmm this jamasd is USB as per what I can see in the pic

https://www.ebay.es/itm/264257730879

Posted: **Tue Sep 01, 2020 11:40 pm**

DrKucho wrote: ↑Tue Sep 01, 2020 9:35 pm Uhmm this jamasd is USB

Looks like a V3... some places still sell tbe older ones.

Posted: **Wed Sep 02, 2020 9:54 am**

Found this jammasd info on the mister wiki

https://github.com/MiSTer-devel/Main_Mi ... ut-devices

Which got me confused again, first off is good that mister officially supports jammasd but then all that config instructions are confusing, they are also incoherent with what you can read on the jammasd selling pages, those say that it will be recognized as a keyboard

Posted: **Wed Sep 02, 2020 11:40 am**

I am using a JAMMASD in my Astro City for some time and it is horrible when it comes to input lag. It has round about 25ms of lag (~2 frames). I have tested it by myself with the Arduino Test method and you can find the results in this list:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/u/ ... M/htmlview

In addition to that MiSTerAddons is working on a JAMMA Interface for the MiSTer right now. With the help of Bootsector they managed to decrease the input latency to ~0.73ms. This interface seems very promising and will be way better than the Jpac and of course the JAMMASD.

For reference: https://twitter.com/MisterAddons/status ... 07360?s=20

Posted: **Wed Sep 02, 2020 2:33 pm**

I have a MiSTer in my SEGA New Astro City and it works great!

Here is my setup:

- MiSTer (by MiSTerAddons) w USB hub and analogue IO.
- JAMMACon (by Shane Kiely) with a SEGA Saturn hat (designed to connect a SEGA Saturn controls, RGB, and sound to JAMMA).
- 2x RetroPad32 (By BrunoFreitas/Bootsector) which converts the controls to USB.

It's not a cheap setup, but the performance is excellent. Lag tests show the RetroPad32 as being one of the lowest lag controller adapter solutions money can buy.

A bonus of using the JAMMACon with Saturn hat is that it gives me access to 8 action buttons for each player. I have matched that with a 2-player 8-button NAC control panel. Lots of nice extra buttons for MiSTer use.

Of course I can still use the JAMMACon to do it's original purpose of putting a Saturn inside my NAC for some killer tate shooters and etc, that are not currently on MiSTer.

One solution I am keeping my eye out for is the new JAMMA IO for MiSTer by MiSTerAddons. Will make for a single elegant solution. If I was starting out fresh now I would just wait for this solution.

Posted: **Sat Sep 05, 2020 11:27 pm**

evidencedj wrote: ↑Wed Sep 02, 2020 11:40 am I am using a JAMMASD in my Astro City for some time and it is horrible when it comes to input lag. It has round about 25ms of lag (~2 frames). I have tested it by myself with the Arduino Test method and you can find the results in this list:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/u/ ... M/htmlview

In addition to that MiSTerAddons is working on a JAMMA Interface for the MiSTer right now. With the help of Bootsector they managed to decrease the input latency to ~0.73ms. This interface seems very promising and will be way better than the Jpac and of course the JAMMASD.

For reference: https://twitter.com/MisterAddons/status ... 07360?s=20

OMG 25 ms , that’s terrible !

Posted: **Sun Sep 06, 2020 9:01 am**

ARCADEAGES wrote: ↑Wed Sep 02, 2020 2:33 pm I have a MiSTer in my SEGA New Astro City and it works great!

Here is my setup:

- MiSTer (by MiSTerAddons) w USB hub and analogue IO.
- JAMMACon (by Shane Kiely) with a SEGA Saturn hat (designed to connect a SEGA Saturn controls, RGB, and sound to JAMMA).
- 2x RetroPad32 (By BrunoFreitas/Bootsector) which converts the controls to USB.

It's not a cheap setup, but the performance is excellent. Lag tests show the RetroPad32 as being one of the lowest lag controller adapter solutions money can buy.

A bonus of using the JAMMACon with Saturn hat is that it gives me access to 8 action buttons for each player. I have matched that with a 2-player 8-button NAC control panel. Lots of nice extra buttons for MiSTer use.

Of course I can still use the JAMMACon to do it's original purpose of putting a Saturn inside my NAC for some killer tate shooters and etc, that are not currently on MiSTer.

One solution I am keeping my eye out for is the new JAMMA IO for MiSTer by MiSTerAddons. Will make for a single elegant solution. If I was starting out fresh now I would just wait for this solution.

Been checking jammacon , interesting option thanks !

Posted: **Sun Sep 06, 2020 9:04 am**

Here something that I don’t get, if jammasd has 25 ms of input lag , how can the light gun work?

As far as I know the light gun detection works with a perfect sync system between the screen and the gun light beam , offsync just one frame and nothing will be detected, am I wrong ?

Posted: **Sat Sep 12, 2020 5:32 pm**

DrKucho wrote: ↑Sun Sep 06, 2020 9:04 am Here something that I don’t get, if jammasd has 25 ms of input lag , how can the light gun work?

As far as I know the light gun detection works with a perfect sync system between the screen and the gun light beam , offsync just one frame and nothing will be detected, am I wrong ?

Go look at what human visual reaction time actually is and you'll see that 25ms is almost 1/10 of that time.....

Posted: **Tue Sep 15, 2020 10:14 pm**

WolfgangBlack wrote: ↑Sat Sep 12, 2020 5:32 pm
DrKucho wrote: ↑Sun Sep 06, 2020 9:04 am Here something that I don’t get, if jammasd has 25 ms of input lag , how can the light gun work?

As far as I know the light gun detection works with a perfect sync system between the screen and the gun light beam , offsync just one frame and nothing will be detected, am I wrong ?
Go look at what human visual reaction time actually is and you'll see that 25ms is almost 1/10 of that time.....

For most of the games is not much but go play frogger on level 20 and you will see that 1/10 loss of reaction time will probably kill you

But I’m not talking of human reaction time Here, but the light gun sync with the screen

Posted: **Sat Mar 27, 2021 3:24 pm**

evidencedj wrote: ↑Wed Sep 02, 2020 11:40 am I am using a JAMMASD in my Astro City for some time and it is horrible when it comes to input lag. It has round about 25ms of lag (~2 frames). I have tested it by myself with the Arduino Test method and you can find the results in this list:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/u/ ... M/htmlview

In addition to that MiSTerAddons is working on a JAMMA Interface for the MiSTer right now. With the help of Bootsector they managed to decrease the input latency to ~0.73ms. This interface seems very promising and will be way better than the Jpac and of course the JAMMASD.

For reference: https://twitter.com/MisterAddons/status ... 07360?s=20

Hi @evidencedj did you tested the jammasd v2 (ps2+usb converter) or jammasd v3 (native usb)? how you configured 2 players on jammasd? a friend gave me one to try it, but i'm not able to map like 2 distinct devices (player 1 and player 2) i uncommented the jamma_vid and jamma_pid in mister.ini but no use.
thanks

MiSTer FPGA Forum

Getting a MiSTer for an original CRT + Jamma arcade cabinet

Getting a MiSTer for an original CRT + Jamma arcade cabinet

Re: Getting a MiSTer for an original CRT + Jamma arcade cabinet

Re: Getting a MiSTer for an original CRT + Jamma arcade cabinet

Re: Getting a Mister for an original CRT + Jamma arcade cabinet

Re: Getting a Mister for an original CRT + Jamma arcade cabinet

Re: Getting a Mister for an original CRT + Jamma arcade cabinet

Re: Getting a Mister for an original CRT + Jamma arcade cabinet

Re: Getting a Mister for an original CRT + Jamma arcade cabinet

Re: Getting a Mister for an original CRT + Jamma arcade cabinet

Re: Getting a Mister for an original CRT + Jamma arcade cabinet

Re: Getting a Mister for an original CRT + Jamma arcade cabinet

Re: Getting a Mister for an original CRT + Jamma arcade cabinet

Re: Getting a Mister for an original CRT + Jamma arcade cabinet

Re: Getting a Mister for an original CRT + Jamma arcade cabinet

Re: Getting a Mister for an original CRT + Jamma arcade cabinet

Re: Getting a Mister for an original CRT + Jamma arcade cabinet

Re: Getting a Mister for an original CRT + Jamma arcade cabinet

Re: Getting a Mister for an original CRT + Jamma arcade cabinet

Re: Getting a Mister for an original CRT + Jamma arcade cabinet

Re: Getting a Mister for an original CRT + Jamma arcade cabinet

Re: Getting a Mister for an original CRT + Jamma arcade cabinet

Re: Getting a Mister for an original CRT + Jamma arcade cabinet

Re: Getting a Mister for an original CRT + Jamma arcade cabinet

Re: Getting a Mister for an original CRT + Jamma arcade cabinet

Re: Getting a Mister for an original CRT + Jamma arcade cabinet

Re: Getting a Mister for an original CRT + Jamma arcade cabinet

Re: Getting a Mister for an original CRT + Jamma arcade cabinet

Re: Getting a Mister for an original CRT + Jamma arcade cabinet

Re: Getting a Mister for an original CRT + Jamma arcade cabinet