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Just a thought on Downscaler/GBS Control and MiSTer
Posted: Mon Apr 26, 2021 9:49 am
by 80271085
Hi, MiSTers
Just found some interesting things regarding downscaler/GBS console on youtube
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mcqskbC ... feinGaming
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fmfR0XI ... l=RetroRGB
https://www.youtube.com/redirect?https: ... bs-control
That is really helpful for playing consoles like ps2, xbox360 or modern pc that don't support native 240p display on crt or pvm/bvms.
so I am wondering is that possible to implement a new core on Mister fpga to emulate the GBS 8200 board and other add-ons boards/ic elements, such as ESP8266,Si5351.etc. as a whole up/down scaler ? it probably needs an "enhanced" IO board with additional Inputs (VGA or Component?)
So MiSTer can be a retro gaming platform rather than game machine !
Re: Just a thought on Downscaler/GBS Control and MiSTer
Posted: Mon Apr 26, 2021 11:12 am
by SwedishGojira
I think it would be probably be easier/cheaper to just buy/build an AIO-GBS.
Re: Just a thought on Downscaler/GBS Control and MiSTer
Posted: Mon Apr 26, 2021 1:47 pm
by FoxbatStargazer
Yeah needing to make a custom board for inputs already invalidates this project. The De10-nano seems also way overkill for the amount of processing required, so again doesn't make much sense to produce the custom board.
Re: Just a thought on Downscaler/GBS Control and MiSTer
Posted: Tue Apr 27, 2021 1:19 am
by 80271085
SwedishGojira wrote: ↑Mon Apr 26, 2021 11:12 am
I think it would be probably be easier/cheaper to just buy/build an AIO-GBS.
yeah, its out of order right now , waiting for delivery of parts/modules referenced in the video from RetroRGB
Re: Just a thought on Downscaler/GBS Control and MiSTer
Posted: Tue Apr 27, 2021 1:23 am
by 80271085
FoxbatStargazer wrote: ↑Mon Apr 26, 2021 1:47 pm
Yeah needing to make a custom board for inputs already invalidates this project. The De10-nano seems also way overkill for the amount of processing required, so again doesn't make much sense to produce the custom board.
agree, just a thought since the GBS board/ICs are easy to get
Re: Just a thought on Downscaler/GBS Control and MiSTer
Posted: Tue Apr 27, 2021 2:51 am
by dentnz
The MiSTer doesn't have a fast enough video conversion capability and would require an additional IO board of some kind, probably with a video-specific IC. At that point, you may as well get a GBS board and make the necessary changes to give it GBSControl capabilities.
Re: Just a thought on Downscaler/GBS Control and MiSTer
Posted: Tue Apr 27, 2021 5:19 am
by 80271085
dentnz wrote: ↑Tue Apr 27, 2021 2:51 am
The MiSTer doesn't have a fast enough video conversion capability and would require an additional IO board of some kind, probably with a video-specific IC. At that point, you may as well get a GBS board and make the necessary changes to give it GBSControl capabilities.
yeah, its a more realistic choice to get 240p output with GBS solution for other consoles. but it would be an interesting subproject on Mister which I believe should be doable theoretically, maybe it's just not the right time until there is a more stable solution/board/firmware out there
Re: Just a thought on Downscaler/GBS Control and MiSTer
Posted: Sun May 16, 2021 3:46 am
by darksakul
Also if you want a FPGA solution that can downscale the Retro Tink 5 X is now out.
https://youtu.be/FvFzcn8NCb4
Re: Just a thought on Downscaler/GBS Control and MiSTer
Posted: Sun May 16, 2021 6:18 am
by Newsdee
Wasn't there a version of OSSC that ran off a DE10? Or was that canceled?
Re: Just a thought on Downscaler/GBS Control and MiSTer
Posted: Sun May 16, 2021 6:22 am
by zakk4223
Newsdee wrote: ↑Sun May 16, 2021 6:18 am
Wasn't there a version of OSSC that ran off a DE10? Or was that canceled?
I don't think they ever produced it. It was part of the OSSC-Pro 'announcement', since that product is based on the same Cyclone-V as the DE-10. I think they were going to produce add-on boards for the de-10 so you could run at least some of the OSSC-Pro features on it, but as far as I know they never materialized in the wild.
Re: Just a thought on Downscaler/GBS Control and MiSTer
Posted: Sun May 16, 2021 4:06 pm
by darksakul
Newsdee wrote: ↑Sun May 16, 2021 6:18 am
Wasn't there a version of OSSC that ran off a DE10? Or was that canceled?
The DE 10 OSSC was a prototype for the (at the time of writing) yet unreleased OSSC Pro
Its going to use the same Cyclone V FPGA, but they needed to move away from the DE 10 dev board to do what they wanted.
zakk4223 wrote: ↑Sun May 16, 2021 6:22 am
I think they were going to produce add-on boards for the de-10 so you could run at least some of the OSSC-Pro features on it
That was never the case. They OSSC dev team used a DE 10 for their own R&D only. They OSSC team never intended to make a MiSTer Add-On.
Often in R&D you use various Dev boards that never actually make it in the final revision, the dev board serves as a jumping off point for the OSSC team to work on a FPGA core without worrying about the hardware. Once they got the Core where wanted they ditched the DE 10.
Some of the MiSTer Devs do a similar approach, they use a different dev board that allows them to swap in various actual parts of the console to make sure the parts that they made in FPGA work as they should using a known static variable that is the original part.
And example of this would be using a FPGA board with a MIPS R4300i CPU for a N64 Core Development, as the N64 used a variant of the MIPS R4300i.
You can build the rest of the chips in and circuits in FPGA first and see how they behave with a real CPU before introducing the CPU in the core.
Re: Just a thought on Downscaler/GBS Control and MiSTer
Posted: Sun May 16, 2021 8:21 pm
by zakk4223
darksakul wrote: ↑Sun May 16, 2021 4:06 pm
Newsdee wrote: ↑Sun May 16, 2021 6:18 am
Wasn't there a version of OSSC that ran off a DE10? Or was that canceled?
The DE 10 OSSC was a prototype for the (at the time of writing) yet unreleased OSSC Pro
Its going to use the same Cyclone V FPGA, but they needed to move away from the DE 10 dev board to do what they wanted.
zakk4223 wrote: ↑Sun May 16, 2021 6:22 am
I think they were going to produce add-on boards for the de-10 so you could run at least some of the OSSC-Pro features on it
That was never the case. They OSSC dev team used a DE 10 for their own R&D only. They OSSC team never intended to make a MiSTer Add-On.
Often in R&D you use various Dev boards that never actually make it in the final revision, the dev board serves as a jumping off point for the OSSC team to work on a FPGA core without worrying about the hardware. Once they got the Core where wanted they ditched the DE 10.
Some of the MiSTer Devs do a similar approach, they use a different dev board that allows them to swap in various actual parts of the console to make sure the parts that they made in FPGA work as they should using a known static variable that is the original part.
And example of this would be using a FPGA board with a MIPS R4300i CPU for a N64 Core Development, as the N64 used a variant of the MIPS R4300i.
You can build the rest of the chips in and circuits in FPGA first and see how they behave with a real CPU before introducing the CPU in the core.
No, they intended to produce one. Direct from marqs post about it here:
https://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=65892
"For DIY-builders and those who can't wait for the final HW, a small add-on PCB compatible with a couple Terasic FPGA dev boards (DE10-Nano, DE2-115) is in works and available soon. Together with the parent dev board, it can be used to implement a subset of the functionality presented above."
Re: Just a thought on Downscaler/GBS Control and MiSTer
Posted: Sun May 16, 2021 9:44 pm
by Harrumph
It exists and afaik Marqs still updates it because he can get feedback on features such as deinterlacing. The board is not sold by anyone though, you have to get it made yourself.
Dedicated thread is here:
https://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=67775
Re: Just a thought on Downscaler/GBS Control and MiSTer
Posted: Mon May 17, 2021 12:25 am
by darksakul
zakk4223 wrote: ↑Sun May 16, 2021 8:21 pm
No, they intended to produce one.
I read those plans too, they intend to use a Cyclone V not a DE 10 Nano.
Huge difference. Their block diagram has a Cyclone V not a DE 10 Nano.
They were only using a DE 10 for development and R&D, never for the final product.
People who want to go down the DIY route can make their own OSSC Pro with a DE 10 Nano, but they aren't going to sell a OSSC Pro with a DE 10 inside.
They have to obviously make a new board for the Cyclone V from scratch as there alot on the DE 10 nano that just not be used for a Video Encoder.
And they are unlikely to make something you can slot a MiSTer into.
Re: Just a thought on Downscaler/GBS Control and MiSTer
Posted: Mon May 17, 2021 2:28 am
by Newsdee
The DE-10 Nano is a development board, so it makes sense to use it to prototype other things that aren't MiSTer.