MiSTer FPGA Forum

hello i'm having problems with the core. The entire thing doesn't boot up, I can't tell if there's something important missing in the installation instructions or if i've been taken for a ride due to how those instructions are written. I do better with visual video tutorials and unfortunately this core doesn't seem to have one.

Hi, do you use hdmi output or vga output ?
The core doesn't work on hdmi output.

oh THAT's why I wasn't getting anywhere.

The know issues on the readme with the information of HDMI : https://github.com/MiSTer-devel/SharpMZ ... own-issues

The core got a big update, the readme is huge. I "tried" it and now I get output on HDMI.
** MONITOR SA-1510 **
I did not go further at this time as I have to read about it in order to know what to do

Yes @alaswx working on it !
For model 80k, 80c, 80a and 700 you need to load mzf (tape file) directly in memory it present a page with exec addr xxxxx
On the shell you need to type Jxxxxx

For model 80B and 2000 (this one not works I think) you will have a message saying IPL waiting to load a program.
You need to load a mzf in queue tape and the IPL will load it.

Holy crap, this now works on a 15hz CRT. Awesome.
Anyone know which is the most compatible machine ?
I own an MZ-700, but can't find the MZ-700 in the 'machines' part of the menu.
To load a tape, is it still --- L then enter ?

MZ700 is there, it is the one I use as I found a TOSEC set for it.
It is not a core but 10,000 cores for the price of one: so many models, video modes, option roms ...
To load a tape look at the post before yours.
Regarding tapes: the TOSEC set contains many machine code tapes but also a bunch of BASIC tapes. The TOSEC set also contains the BASIC interpreter and I tried to load a tape using the queue tape but when it was time to type LOAD "CMT: <Program Name>" the " on the KB does not produce ".
Keyboard handling under MISTer is horrible to say the least while staying polite. This is mainly the case with the computer cores and I gave up using a lot of them due to this KB problem. The C64 got a lot of improvements lately but surely nothing about the KB so my C64 is "collecting dust on a shelf" among many others. Recently there has been a lot of talk about how messed up is the handling of controllers but nothing about how messed up is the KB handling. I guess there are not that many fans of old computers.
After all this rambling I would appreciate very much if someone could help me find the " and may be other keys.

I can type "" using a Razor USB keyboard, and this core. Just like on a PC, I just held left shift + 2
But why the need for LOAD "CMT: <Program Name>" ?? Rather just typing L, then Enter. Is one for BASIC, and the other for Machine Code programs ?
I haven't used my MZ-700 in years, so I easily forget how to use it.

BTW, for me the C64 keyboard works fine. You just have to know the combination of keys to press.

No, if you use the Load direct to Ram function (for machine code programs only) there is no real tape reading (if I can express it like this), the code is directly pushed into RAM like if it had been read. At that point a window pops up and tell you some information regarding the tape which was loaded, the most important being the Exec Addr: hhhh. In the monitor/shell you have to type Jhhhh to jump to that address and execute the program. This does not exists on a real machine. The other way to load a tape is to use the Queue tape which is more like the real thing: you place the program in the queue which is like the tape and after that you use the regular commands you would have used on a real machine. I did not try it on machine code programs as the Load direct to RAM is much better but could not be done on a real machine.
For BASIC things are different: Load direct to RAM can be used only for machine code programs so you have to do it the old way: you load the BASIC program in the queue tape like you would have done by placing a tape in the player and within BASIC you use the BASIC command to load the program from tape. It is at that point that I got stuck with the ". In any case I have to rename my BASIC tapes: the one I was trying to load, coming from the TOSEC pack is called "Ace Racer (19xx)(-)[Req BASIC].mzf". I'd better rename it "ACE RACER.mzf".
I hope my explanation is not too confusing, in summary:
If your "tape" contains a program in machine code you use Load direct to RAM which places the program directly in memory like if it had been read by issuing the proper command in the monitor/shell and in the monitor/shell you just have to jump at the address given by the popup window.
If your "tape" contains a BASIC program you proceed the old way by placing it in the queue (in the cassette player) and you issue the proper BASIC command to load it.
If I understand correctly you can place a bunch of programs in the queue and if your Tape Buttons is set to Auto you can load the first one, run it and when you are done load the next one, run it, ...

Regarding my frustration with the KB it is just that: frustration. I know you can use other keys or combinations but there are many cores like that, each one with its quirks. I just would like that when I type " , whatever computer core I am using, I see a " appearing on the screen and so on. I understand it is not a trivial problem but I think it is a problem which should be address. I don't count on it but I can always dream.

More frustration: I cannot find : . So close to enjoy ACE RACER!

jca wrote: ↑Sun Jul 11, 2021 11:56 pm Keyboard handling under MISTer is horrible to say the least while staying polite. This is mainly the case with the computer cores and I gave up using a lot of them due to this KB problem. The C64 got a lot of improvements lately but surely nothing about the KB so my C64 is "collecting dust on a shelf" among many others. Recently there has been a lot of talk about how messed up is the handling of controllers but nothing about how messed up is the KB handling. I guess there are not that many fans of old computers.
After all this rambling I would appreciate very much if someone could help me find the " and may be other keys.

I'm not sure it would be easy, or even possible, to unify the keyboard mappings. I suppose they are trying to represent original layouts. Maybe there could be an option to flip between "original/modern" layouts, but even then there could be problems regarding regional differences. I've tested most of the micro cores and the keyboard can definitely be tamed, even if it requires a bit of trial & error sometime.

Perhaps you should start a new topic regarding problematic keyboards, and everyone can chip in describing different machines. Also, this MiSTer Manual describes quite a few mappings (eg C64, though all you really need to load stuff is Shift+Esc).

jca wrote: ↑Mon Jul 12, 2021 4:05 am Regarding my frustration with the KB it is just that: frustration. I know you can use other keys or combinations but there are many cores like that, each one with its quirks. I just would like that when I type " , whatever computer core I am using, I see a " appearing on the screen and so on. I understand it is not a trivial problem but I think it is a problem which should be address. I don't count on it but I can always dream.

The problem is, only those who have owned, or used the original machines would know each machine's keyboard quirks. So, while it would be easier for you, and me, and others who have used original machines, it wouldn't be easy for Mister users who are used to a standard PC keyboard.
And, like the other poster has already said, this might not be possible to fix, or at least an easy solution.
Perhaps, it might be possible to print out keyboard mappings for each core. Even have a picture of the original keyboard, along with a modern PC keyboard, and have the mappings shown in each image ??

jca wrote: ↑Mon Jul 12, 2021 4:05 am Regarding my frustration with the KB it is just that: frustration. I know you can use other keys or combinations but there are many cores like that, each one with its quirks. I just would like that when I type " , whatever computer core I am using, I see a " appearing on the screen and so on. I understand it is not a trivial problem but I think it is a problem which should be address. I don't count on it but I can always dream.

That's character mapping. It's region-dependent, and for some computers it involves complex sequences of keypresses; for example, to enter a "[" in the Spectrum core, you need to go into extended mode (caps shift + symbol shift) and then press symbol shift + Y. Implementing these sequences in hardware can be done, but it is hard and if implemented safely, it introduces several frames delay between the keypress and the input.

Actually, for MiSTer, I'm all for going in the opposite direction to the one you're suggesting: have each physical keyboard key be mapped to a key in the computer emulated by the core, sometimes called scancode mapping or positional mapping. That way, if you have muscle memory from using a certain retro computer (like me with the Spectrum), you can take advantage of it. Either way, learning to type in that computer using an image of the original keyboard as reference is as close as you can get to the original experience. That's what I did in my revamp of the SAM Coupé keyboard, for example. I have never used one, but using the keyboard layout of the original SAM as if I were in front of one feels more authentic in my opinion.

For some cores, like ao486, scancode mapping is the only mapping that actually makes sense, given that the scancode-to-character mapping is done by the OS (keyb xx) and the scancodes have a 1:1 correspondence between physical and emulated keyboards. For others, the core creator is the one who decides which mapping to use, and there's no uniform criterion. For the Gigatron core I implemented what the original did: a choice between 5 regional keyboard mappings, which was easy because the Gigatron is character-based, not scancode based. In an ideal world, there would be a choice between character or scancode mapping in each core, with the regional character mapping being configurable in MiSTer.ini. That's a lot of work for everyone (core creators for each core, and Sorgelig for Main), it's also tricky and prone to mistakes, and I don't see it happening.

Thanks for all your replies regarding the KB. I know all about how KB works as many years ago I wrote a KB driver on a microcontroller. I even discovered that the KB could be put in different modes and I ended up using mode 3 which sends the key number as scancode.
The official MISTer keyboard is the US layout so why not write the computer cores based on that and do the proper transcoding somewhere between the KB and the core? I understand very well that it is not an easy task but we live in modern times. Regarding a delay: don't the cores have to do the transcoding already?
Each time a new computer core is developed I get all excited but most of the time it does not take very long to get frustrated and not reusing the core.
I cannot see myself reaching for Volume 30 (out of 32) of Encyclopædia MISTerica and flip, flip, filp Sharp MZ Series, flip flip flip ", flip, flip, flip :, ...
By the way I still did not figure out where the : is located. Could it be Alt+Ctrl+Shift+6?

Now I really want to know what happens on MISTer: pressing and releasing a key will send a Key Press scancode followed by a Key Release scancode. What do the core receives? Early computers did not use KB sending scancodes so how do they process whatever they receive?

Anyone knowing what I have to type : in this core? I want to at least enjoying running a BASIC program before putting the Sharp MZ computer on the shelf.

I have the TOSEC collection for the MZ 700. Among these tapes a few are not recognized as valid and show 1MHz in the type. They all have (PD) at the end of the name and seem to have something to do with math. Do you know what they are and how to use them?
These are:
Bubble Sort
Fibonacci
GCD
Life
Mastermind
Minmax
Number Guess
Number Sort
The Relaxer

Edit: I suppose they could be used by a different programming language as some applications in the set are Forth and Pascal.

jca wrote: ↑Mon Jul 12, 2021 1:44 pm By the way I still did not figure out where the : is located. Could it be Alt+Ctrl+Shift+6?

It looks like some keys are unmapped, and the : key seems to be one. That, or I haven't figured out the key combination. I had a similar problem in the SAM core with the " key and it turned out that I had to use the right Shift key instead of the left Shift key in order to get it (when it is unshifted in the real machine). That's the spark that ignited my rewrite of the keyboard in that core.

Unfortunately, I have taken a look at the keyboard handler in this core and it's written in VHDL, and so far I am still learning Verilog and haven't gotten to learning VHDL yet. Apparently this file has something to do with it: https://github.com/MiSTer-devel/SharpMZ ... keymap.mif

jca wrote: ↑Mon Jul 12, 2021 1:44 pm Now I really want to know what happens on MISTer: pressing and releasing a key will send a Key Press scancode followed by a Key Release scancode. What do the core receives? Early computers did not use KB sending scancodes so how do they process whatever they receive?

Cores get key press and key release events too. Some cores replicate a matrix using one register per key, setting it when the keypress comes and resetting it when the keyrelease comes. Then they use those registers when the emulated CPU queries the state of the matrix.

By the way, many cores don't have separate registers for both shifts or both CTRLs or any other duplicate keys, and fail at handling them correctly. For example, pressing both shifts and releasing one while holding the other, will make shift count as not pressed.

Not sure what happened: I typed a long post, press submit and it all disappeared.
Summary: to load a basic tape load the Basic interpreter with Load to RAM, jump to its entry point, queue the BASIC program and just type LOAD: it defaults to tape and load the first thing found on the tape. Now type RUN and enjoy your BASIC game. My level of frustration went way down.

Hi,

Is this core really supposed to work with HDMI now? If so, is there any configuration necessary? because all I get is a black screen.

The readme file still says that HDMI is disabled.

Tks,

D.

I didn’t update the readme when I added hdmi. Do you get the osd?

alanswx wrote: ↑Tue Jul 13, 2021 10:31 am I didn’t update the readme when I added hdmi. Do you get the osd?

Hi,

Thanks for replying.

No, I get a black screen and the system hangs and has to be rebooted.

D.

danielb wrote: ↑Tue Jul 13, 2021 10:42 am

alanswx wrote: ↑Tue Jul 13, 2021 10:31 am I didn’t update the readme when I added hdmi. Do you get the osd?

Hi,

Thanks for replying.

No, I get a black screen and the system hangs and has to be rebooted.

D.

Do you have a new mister binary? I had to make some changes in there.

As far as I know, everything is up to date. Mister version 210711, core version 21.07.09.

D.

The core only syncs on HDMI for me when I set vsync_adjust to 1 on a global scale. Seems my TV doesn't like the low latency settings on this core. I would set the setting core specific, but I don't know how the core is called internally, I tried adding:
To the Mister.ini, but this didn't work.

To get this working on a CRT, you have to goto the core's OSD menu - while using a HDMI display first, then scroll down to "Display", then set "VGA Scaling" to OFF. Save settings, reboot.