MiSTer FPGA Forum

Hey, first post, relatively new to the whole MiSTer/FPGA thing and still rather clueless how they work on any detailed level.

I've had my MiSTer for a little over a month and I was wondering what people's opinions of and experience with the DE10-Nano regarding daily use over a period of time.

Since getting one set up my MiSTer gets plenty of daily use, which includes testing many different cores on a number of different CRTs. Especially arcade games which has me flashing different cores every few minutes. Which led me to wonder, is frequently flashing different cores to the DE10-Nano going to ultimately shorten the lifespan in any way? Obviously nothing lasts forever, but I was curious if some of the users who have been messing with their DE10-Nanos/MiSTers are finding them to be durable for heavy use and frequent flashing over the course of a few years.

I just like mine a lot so far and hope it stays that way for a good while.

Basically no limit to flashing the FPGA.

'Altera does not specify the number of times you can reprogram or reconfigure FPGA devices because these devices are SRAM-based. An SRAM-based device can be reconfigured as often as a design requires; there is no specific limit.'

Source:
https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en ... _8599.html

Intel have tested the Cyclone V for 2.1 million hours, with zero failures.

Xbytez wrote: ↑Sun Sep 12, 2021 9:48 pm Intel have tested the Cyclone V for 2.1 million hours, with zero failures.

That's nuts!

Xbytez wrote: ↑Sun Sep 12, 2021 9:48 pm Basically no limit to flashing the FPGA.

'Altera does not specify the number of times you can reprogram or reconfigure FPGA devices because these devices are SRAM-based. An SRAM-based device can be reconfigured as often as a design requires; there is no specific limit.'

Source:
https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en ... _8599.html

Intel have tested the Cyclone V for 2.1 million hours, with zero failures.

Well, I suppose that more or less answers the lingering worries. Thanks for the links and the test results!

I guess I'll quit fretting over the DE10-Nano and go back to my usual routine, fretting over the longevity of my CRTs.

green_onion wrote: ↑Sun Sep 12, 2021 10:47 pm

Well, I suppose that more or less answers the lingering worries. Thanks for the links and the test results!

I guess I'll quit fretting over the DE10-Nano and go back to my usual routine, fretting over the longevity of my CRTs.

That you have all the reason in the world to be worry about, especially since those bad boys can say "goodbye" in so many ways

green_onion wrote: ↑Sun Sep 12, 2021 10:47 pm

Xbytez wrote: ↑Sun Sep 12, 2021 9:48 pm Basically no limit to flashing the FPGA.

'Altera does not specify the number of times you can reprogram or reconfigure FPGA devices because these devices are SRAM-based. An SRAM-based device can be reconfigured as often as a design requires; there is no specific limit.'

Source:
https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en ... _8599.html

Intel have tested the Cyclone V for 2.1 million hours, with zero failures.

Well, I suppose that more or less answers the lingering worries. Thanks for the links and the test results!

I guess I'll quit fretting over the DE10-Nano and go back to my usual routine, fretting over the longevity of my CRTs.

Whilst the FPGA itself has no limit being SRAM based, it is worth mentioning that I've heard of some stories regarding durability of the HDMI, USB OTG (micro usb is notoriously not designed for constant plugging in/out) and the MicroSD... However I've got no hard evidence.

I think the biggest issue you need to be wary of is static discharge, there is more than one post regarding that issue with me being one of them. Permanently damaged an internal resistor (I think) that controls the user I/O led on one De10, so I'm very wary now.

Not to worry you, I don't think it's like a delicate little flower just that I know it can be damaged

What Blitzwing said!
The three biggest weak points is usb otg/microsd/static electricity, the hdmi is probably better for wearing out but with the caveat that it is not wired correctly from the factory and give people problems with CEC/Power/etc.

had mine since mid 2019, changed the ram from 32 to 64 to 128, had two different i/o boards, had 1 usb dongle hub, 2 different usb hubs, didn't have a case for it until feb this year, plugged it into CRT monitors via VGA, CRT TV's via VGA>SCART, also into flatscreen TV's via HDMI, plugged & unplugged the audio headphone jack multiple times, had 3 different sized SDCards, a 1TB USB hard drive for storage, am constantly plugging & unplugging USB gamepads and old DB9 joysticks via a Mayflash USB adapter, have it plugged into my internet when updating only, got USB keyboard & mouse plugged in, also a MT32pi.... absolutely no issues whatsoever, taken the whole thing in a carry case to friends houses and set it up on their TV's for gaming.. still going strong after all that..

I’d be more worried about plugging and unplugging the hdmi port myself.

I know it doesn’t feel the most durable and I frequently plug/unplug mine. Should get an IO board I guess.

throAU wrote: ↑Mon Sep 13, 2021 9:24 am I’d be more worried about plugging and unplugging the hdmi port myself.

I know it doesn’t feel the most durable and I frequently plug/unplug mine. Should get an IO board I guess.

again I never had any issues with that.. i do wonder what you guys are doing with them to make you feel like these ports aren't durable.. i mean are you yanking and bashing them around? when you spend in excess of £/$300 on something you generally take care with it. i know I don't chuck it in the corner when i've finished playing donkey kong.

bazza_12 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 13, 2021 12:38 pm again I never had any issues with that.. i do wonder what you guys are doing with them to make you feel like these ports aren't durable.

I surf the internets and find all this complaining about broken ports even if they only looked at them the wrong way

Mainly it´s because there are plenty of reports of fragile ports/sd slots for a not that common device (DE-10 nano) that has me a bit worried.
Compare to raspberry pi/or other similar products that have been shipped in extremely higher amount where there are about the same amount of complaints about fragile ports.
THAT makes me think the DE-10 do have very fragile ports/sd slot compared to say a pi.

And on top of that there are only one usb port that can be used for controllers/and so on on the DE-10 making the lone port even more precious.

I do have mine out of the way and do really/really (did i say REALLY?) try to not have anything or do anything near it at all, but at the same time have it near enough so i can change controllers and press the buttons without leaning/stretch too much.
And i sure as hell try do not unplugg/plug in anything directly on the DE-10 as in sd/usb/hdmi.
In fact the sd card has been in there for almost exactly a year before i did remove it and started from scratch yesterday, and i plan on leaving it in there for atleast a year again.

grizzly wrote: ↑Mon Sep 13, 2021 5:31 pm I do have mine out of the way and do really/really (did i say REALLY?) try to not have anything or do anything near it at all

I bet you didn't take dust buildup into account :evil laugh:

Now don't say you dust it off regularly... because that's an ESD waiting to happen :evilest laugh:

...

Seriously people, enjoy what we have without sweating it too much Otherwise, don't even try to look funnily at a €2000 upgrade to your PC -evar!

@green_onion, did I say how much I love your nickname and avatar?

Nope used canned air one time so far.

Xbytez wrote: ↑Sun Sep 12, 2021 9:48 pm Basically no limit to flashing the FPGA.

'Altera does not specify the number of times you can reprogram or reconfigure FPGA devices because these devices are SRAM-based. An SRAM-based device can be reconfigured as often as a design requires; there is no specific limit.'

Source:
https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en ... _8599.html

Intel have tested the Cyclone V for 2.1 million hours, with zero failures.


CycloneV-Lifetest-Summary.png

They tested it for 228 years didnt know its been around for so long lol.

More like they tested 228 chips for a year.

bazza_12 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 13, 2021 12:38 pm

throAU wrote: ↑Mon Sep 13, 2021 9:24 am I’d be more worried about plugging and unplugging the hdmi port myself.

I know it doesn’t feel the most durable and I frequently plug/unplug mine. Should get an IO board I guess.

again I never had any issues with that.. i do wonder what you guys are doing with them to make you feel like these ports aren't durable.. i mean are you yanking and bashing them around? when you spend in excess of £/$300 on something you generally take care with it. i know I don't chuck it in the corner when i've finished playing donkey kong.

I haven't had any issues and don't plan to, its more the case that it is mounted directly to the board without any other strain relief.

I just see it as a weak point to be CAREFUL with. Not that I have any issues with it. It's simply a port with significant resistance for cable insertion and ALL of that force is transmitted directly to the mounting on the board. It's also the most frequently plugged/unplugged port on the DE10-Nano itself.

Ditto if anyone reading has an external hub hanging off the onboard USB Micro-b connector. via a cable If you've got a hub hanging off it I would strongly suggest a USB add on board so that you have additional USB ports and any insertion/removal force is not transmitted directly into your DE10-Nano's single USB connector.

About 42

throAU wrote: ↑Tue Sep 14, 2021 9:54 am Ditto if anyone reading has an external hub hanging off the onboard USB Micro-b connector. via a cable If you've got a hub hanging off it I would strongly suggest a USB add on board so that you have additional USB ports and any insertion/removal force is not transmitted directly into your DE10-Nano's single USB connector.

I much prefer my "hanging off" hub, because it was way cheaper and obviously it also takes the stress of the on board USB connector.

akeley wrote: ↑Tue Sep 14, 2021 12:27 pm

throAU wrote: ↑Tue Sep 14, 2021 9:54 am Ditto if anyone reading has an external hub hanging off the onboard USB Micro-b connector. via a cable If you've got a hub hanging off it I would strongly suggest a USB add on board so that you have additional USB ports and any insertion/removal force is not transmitted directly into your DE10-Nano's single USB connector.

I much prefer my "hanging off" hub, because it was way cheaper and obviously it also takes the stress of the on board USB connector.

Well kinda... but the onboard USB is a type mini (?) B and small/fragile.

If you get the USB board, it is hooked up via a bridging board and the USB board itself screws onto the base of the unit. So there's no physical stress on the DE10's port at all. Plus you get 6 USB ports

Again, i'm careful with my stuff, but just pointing out that the USB board will definitely help make the whole unit a bit more durable. It will also protect the bottom of your DE10

I had read about the ports being easily damaged, and made a case for the MiSTer FPGA that protects all the ports buy adding external ports, the case is kinda boring, bland, and utilitarian, but it protects every port on the MiSTer FPGA.

throAU wrote: ↑Tue Sep 14, 2021 1:58 pm Again, i'm careful with my stuff, but just pointing out that the USB board will definitely help make the whole unit a bit more durable. It will also protect the bottom of your DE10

Well...you could say that dealing with the box directly could expose it to more risk of a static discharge Just saying that these kind of trade offs are arguable and rather minuscule. For me paying 4x less for USB ability was more important, hence my remark.

bazza_12 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 13, 2021 12:38 pm again I never had any issues with that.. i do wonder what you guys are doing with them to make you feel like these ports aren't durable.

Wait, what? Are you telling me that a hammer and chisel aren't the correct tools to plug in the USB and that impact drivers shouldn't be used to undo screws?? Now they tell me.

Blitzwing wrote: ↑Fri Oct 08, 2021 3:40 pm

bazza_12 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 13, 2021 12:38 pm again I never had any issues with that.. i do wonder what you guys are doing with them to make you feel like these ports aren't durable.

Wait, what? Are you telling me that a hammer and chisel aren't the correct tools to plug in the USB and that impact drivers shouldn't be used to undo screws?? Now they tell me.

i'm not saying anything.. but please refrain from inserting usb or sdcards with pneumatic hammers or air compressors..

Mine passed the cat piss test so i'd say it's pretty durable!

Also I leave mine in it's original box it is said that box has magical powers!

FatSlob71 wrote: ↑Sat Oct 09, 2021 4:45 pm Mine passed the cat piss test so i'd say it's pretty durable!

mine has passed the cat-sat-on test..

The oldest DE-10 in my testing fleet has been going strong for over 3 years, it has worked hard, suffered uncountable plugging/unplugging of I/O boards, RTCs, USB hubs (cabled and bridged), various HDMI monitors and tons of SNAC stuff. Never had an issue with any of the ports on any of the test de-10s.

I see they sell HDMI extension cables, including very short ones. I'm going to get one of those. Sounds like a simple way of protecting the connector. I already have two MSX machines with the joystick port loose and inoperative.

WILL1384 wrote: ↑Tue Sep 14, 2021 2:03 pm

I had read about the ports being easily damaged, and made a case for the MiSTer FPGA that protects all the ports buy adding external ports, the case is kinda boring, bland, and utilitarian, but it protects every port on the MiSTer FPGA.

Will, your case is amazing, I would like to have a similar one for myself, could you please share more details about which parts do I need to get?
Thanks and have a great day!

Mine will be 3 years this january and still alive and kicking.

I live near the beach so electronics in my house tend to get rusty quickly and on my mister kit everything metallic is rusty already