MiSTer FPGA Forum

As any of you may know, the Zx Spectrum Recreated is a perfect repro Bluetooth of the original ZxSpectrum used with emulator.

It would work as bluetooth on MISTer Zx Spectrum core, mapping 1:1 the keys?

https://recreatedzxspectrum.com/index.php

Maybe that would help. I was never exposed to spectrum computers, and I find using these cores with a PC keyboard pretty baffling. I press ctrl-1 and get !? That's just weird.

cathrynmataga wrote: ↑Sun Oct 24, 2021 12:56 am Maybe that would help. I was never exposed to spectrum computers, and I find using these cores with a PC keyboard pretty baffling. I press ctrl-1 and get !? That's just weird.

The original Spectrum keyboard layout is confusing when transferred to a PC keyboard.

If you are not familiar with the original keyboard it is easier to simulate the later Spectrums from Amstrad. The +2 and +3 both had a more traditional keyboard layout and by defaut single keypresses didn't print the keywords on screen, but single characters.

Good idea. I set ZXNext to +3 Basic, and tried poking around a little, maybe that is a little more normal. I am intrigued by the enthusiasm of the Spectrum community more than anything else. But these machines are a little quirky to those of us just dabbling in this.

So has anyone tried this?

cathrynmataga wrote: ↑Sat Oct 30, 2021 6:55 am Good idea. I set ZXNext to +3 Basic, and tried poking around a little, maybe that is a little more normal. I am intrigued by the enthusiasm of the Spectrum community more than anything else. But these machines are a little quirky to those of us just dabbling in this.

The Spectrum is definitely one of the most interesting machines, everything was just bare minimum, but it was enough. It is astonishing to see what people were able to achieve on a Spectrum back in the day (they got the complete R-Type running on that thing) and it is even more astonishing what people achieve today (take a look the titles from Zosya or Sanchez).

Ok, but anyone has tried the Zx Spectrum Recreated Bluetooth Keyboard with MISTer? Thanks!

I got a Recreated ZX Spectrum keyboard and tried this. Short version: it's not supported.

The keyboard has 2 modes. One (mode B) seems to be a proprietary mode only usable with the Recreated Spectrum applications. That's the mode that supports all the extended commands.
The other mode (mode A) is an ASCII mode, with which you can use the keyboard as a standard keyboard. Obviously this also works with the ZX Spectrum core but the extended commands are not accessible / supported. So it's fine if you want to play games and you want an original feel but pretty useless if you want to write a BASIC program.

_paul_ wrote: ↑Fri Nov 12, 2021 6:59 pm I got a Recreated ZX Spectrum keyboard and tried this. Short version: it's not supported.

The keyboard has 2 modes. One (mode B) seems to be a proprietary mode only usable with the Recreated Spectrum applications. That's the mode that supports all the extended commands.
The other mode (mode A) is an ASCII mode, with which you can use the keyboard as a standard keyboard. Obviously this also works with the ZX Spectrum core but the extended commands are not accessible / supported. So it's fine if you want to play games and you want an original feel but pretty useless if you want to write a BASIC program.

If it allows only individual letters can 't you just use the keyboard in +3 mode?

Chris23235 wrote: ↑Fri Nov 12, 2021 7:49 pm

_paul_ wrote: ↑Fri Nov 12, 2021 6:59 pm I got a Recreated ZX Spectrum keyboard and tried this. Short version: it's not supported.

The keyboard has 2 modes. One (mode B) seems to be a proprietary mode only usable with the Recreated Spectrum applications. That's the mode that supports all the extended commands.
The other mode (mode A) is an ASCII mode, with which you can use the keyboard as a standard keyboard. Obviously this also works with the ZX Spectrum core but the extended commands are not accessible / supported. So it's fine if you want to play games and you want an original feel but pretty useless if you want to write a BASIC program.

If it allows only individual letters can 't you just use the keyboard in +3 mode?

It's not very practical because many of the special characters that you access with symbol shift are not where they should be. So it's finding out where they are and then remembering the mapping.

Or is it possible to create a ZX Spectrum keyboard mapping configuration?

_paul_ wrote: ↑Fri Nov 12, 2021 6:59 pm I got a Recreated ZX Spectrum keyboard and tried this. Short version: it's not supported.

The keyboard has 2 modes. One (mode B) seems to be a proprietary mode only usable with the Recreated Spectrum applications. That's the mode that supports all the extended commands.
The other mode (mode A) is an ASCII mode, with which you can use the keyboard as a standard keyboard. Obviously this also works with the ZX Spectrum core but the extended commands are not accessible / supported. So it's fine if you want to play games and you want an original feel but pretty useless if you want to write a BASIC program.

A huge THANKS for your answer!

Found details on the keyboard mappings here: http://www.zx81keyboardadventure.com/2 ... eated.html

_paul_ wrote: ↑Sun Nov 14, 2021 10:33 am Found details on the keyboard mappings here: http://www.zx81keyboardadventure.com/2 ... eated.html

So in this way is it possible to use with Mister?

AmintaMister wrote: ↑Sun Nov 14, 2021 11:11 am

_paul_ wrote: ↑Sun Nov 14, 2021 10:33 am Found details on the keyboard mappings here: http://www.zx81keyboardadventure.com/2 ... eated.html

So in this way is it possible to use with Mister?

Not really, the mapping would have to be added to the Core options to fully support the keyboard. If you want to use the Recreated ZX Spectrum keyboard I'd recommend the Fuse Spectrum Emulator, that has support for the keyboard built in.

I'm waiting for a Recreated keyboard to arrive. Meanwhile, can anyone confirm if what they see is consistent with that blog post? I'm willing to write a patch.

pgimeno wrote: ↑Tue Nov 16, 2021 3:09 pm I'm waiting for a Recreated keyboard to arrive. Meanwhile, can anyone confirm if what they see is consistent with that blog post? I'm willing to write a patch.

Just did a check, the mapping on my Recreated Spectrum is 100% consistent with the table posted in the blog post.

_paul_ wrote: ↑Wed Nov 17, 2021 8:17 pm Just did a check, the mapping on my Recreated Spectrum is 100% consistent with the table posted in the blog post.

Thanks for the info. Just one more thing. When you release a key you actually see another key being pressed, right? Because the blog says that the keyboard sends key release events on key release:

however on release the keyboard send the code for 'v' being released.

(emphasis mine). I think the word I emphasized is wrong, according to the Fuse sources; I just wanted to confirm that you see other keys being pressed (not released as the blog says) when you release a key.

pgimeno wrote: ↑Wed Nov 17, 2021 9:53 pm

_paul_ wrote: ↑Wed Nov 17, 2021 8:17 pm Just did a check, the mapping on my Recreated Spectrum is 100% consistent with the table posted in the blog post.

Thanks for the info. Just one more thing. When you release a key you actually see another key being pressed, right? Because the blog says that the keyboard sends key release events on key release:

however on release the keyboard send the code for 'v' being released.

(emphasis mine). I think the word I emphasized is wrong, according to the Fuse sources; I just wanted to confirm that you see other keys being pressed (not released as the blog says) when you release a key.

Using Notepad, if I press the [1] key on the keyboard, a single character “a” appears in Notepad. If I then release the [1] key, the character “b” appears in Notepad.

So pressing and releasing the [1] key resuls in “ab”.

Wouldn't it be easier to use something like this?

https://www.hackster.io/news/a-zx-spect ... 5b0ceb6339

Chris23235 wrote: ↑Thu Nov 18, 2021 8:59 am Wouldn't it be easier to use something like this?

https://www.hackster.io/news/a-zx-spect ... 5b0ceb6339

The number of Recreated ZX Spectrum keyboards produced are limited (I believe 10K), for some it may be easier to build your own than to have to wait until someone wants to sell theirs. But you would still need to do the mapping for a ZX Spectrum layout keyboard for the MiSTer core .

Imo for most people it is easier to buy a keyboard like the Recreated ZX Spectrum than to embark on a hardware project as explained in the video.

Seeing the lack of development activity for the Recreated ZX Spectrum it is only a matter of time before support for iOS and Android expires and these keyboards become useless for most current owners. The number of software titles offered in the app is very limited and does not seem to be expanding. So more may be put on eBay before too long.

_paul_ wrote: ↑Thu Nov 18, 2021 10:19 am But you would still need to do the mapping for a ZX Spectrum layout keyboard for the MiSTer core .

I don't think you have to do much mapping, because as far as I understand it the keyboard presses are already mapped by the Arduino and send out via USB in their final form. But here I am not 100% sure.

My advice would be to think twice if you're really going to use it before spending some time/money on getting it going. Cute as it is, the Spectrum keyboard really isn't the most functional one out there and not suited for anything more than casually typing something now and then.

I have a real 48kb ZX sitting next to me on my desk and once had plans to play a lot of text-based games on it, but gave up on that idea and delegated it to MiSTer + Logitech KB, and now using the ZX only for some Kempston-based gaming.

The beauty of the Mister is that we can finally ditch that god-awful rubber keyboard, and use a modern keyboard, with modern cherry switches. I use a Razor Blackwidow, it's got lovely clicky blue switches, and soooo much better to use than a speccy keyboard.
I also have a few 48k spectrums here, and I try to use the keyboard less, and less. I now use a Comcon Joystick interface that allows keyboard-only games to be mapped to this device - just to avoid that keyboard.

Chris23235 wrote: ↑Thu Nov 18, 2021 8:59 am Wouldn't it be easier to use something like this?

https://www.hackster.io/news/a-zx-spect ... 5b0ceb6339

It will work out of the box in MISTer?

AmintaMister wrote: ↑Thu Nov 18, 2021 3:09 pm

Chris23235 wrote: ↑Thu Nov 18, 2021 8:59 am Wouldn't it be easier to use something like this?

https://www.hackster.io/news/a-zx-spect ... 5b0ceb6339

It will work out of the box in MISTer?

As it is working as a standard USB keyboard it should work out of the box.

_paul_ wrote: ↑Thu Nov 18, 2021 6:01 am Using Notepad, if I press the [1] key on the keyboard, a single character “a” appears in Notepad. If I then release the [1] key, the character “b” appears in Notepad.

So pressing and releasing the [1] key resuls in “ab”.

Thanks, so indeed it's what I suspected: the release of a physical key causes another logical key to be *pressed*, not released as the blog says.

I've started with the patch, but the way the code is written is fragile and it will need a rewrite of some parts to make it more robust, otherwise I can't guarantee that it will be stable enough.

Chris23235 wrote: ↑Thu Nov 18, 2021 3:24 pm

AmintaMister wrote: ↑Thu Nov 18, 2021 3:09 pm

Chris23235 wrote: ↑Thu Nov 18, 2021 8:59 am Wouldn't it be easier to use something like this?

https://www.hackster.io/news/a-zx-spect ... 5b0ceb6339

It will work out of the box in MISTer?

As it is working as a standard USB keyboard it should work out of the box.

Won't it have the same limitation as trying to use the Recreated ZX Spectrum in standard USB keyboard mode? The ZX Spectrum keyboard is not exactly a standard US 101 keyboard layout. With the mapping I get on the Recreated Spectrum in standard USB mode the special characters are not where they should be and getting to the E (extended) commands on the keyboard is not possible.

MiSTer_Kirk wrote: ↑Thu Nov 18, 2021 2:25 pm The beauty of the Mister is that we can finally ditch that god-awful rubber keyboard, and use a modern keyboard, with modern cherry switches. I use a Razor Blackwidow, it's got lovely clicky blue switches, and soooo much better to use than a speccy keyboard.

You haven't typed much on a Spectrum right? Having Ctrl as Symbol Shift is cumbersome in comparison with the real symbol shift in a rubber keyboard. All keys are too far apart for what has always been a single-hand key entry, and the muscle memory doesn't work well in these circumstances.

Right, I'm not happy with the rubber keyboard either, that's why I had a dK'Tronics keyboard when my membrane died instead of trying to find a new membrane. But it's a problem for me if the keyboard layout is not consistent with the Spectrum's.

_paul_ wrote: ↑Thu Nov 18, 2021 4:42 pm Won't it have the same limitation as trying to use the Recreated ZX Spectrum in standard USB keyboard mode?

Not if each of the keyboard keys has a 1:1 mapping to a PC key instead of trying to do clever things. For the MiSTer, Symbol Shift should be mapped to Ctrl, and Caps Shift to LShift.

pgimeno wrote: ↑Thu Nov 18, 2021 4:50 pm You haven't typed much on a Spectrum right?

I have owned a 16k ZX Spectrum, upgraded to 48k back in the 80s, since xmas 1982. When I got it, all I had was a couple of C&VG magazines which had spectrum listings in to type-in. That was it, I had no tape deck, or games at xmas 82. It wasn't until Jan 83 that I was able to get a tape deck, and some tapes. After using a BBC Micro, at my school, which had a proper full-travel keyboard, the spectrum keyboard was atrocious. Typing in listings, I kept trying to "Type" the words, only to forget that they were single press keys, and the words would appear automatically. I hated it back then, and still hate it.
I know it was a budget conscious decision by Sinclair to keep the costs down, and it has it's charm. And, I still think the overall design of the ZX Spectrum is still THE best, most iconic design ever. But playing games on that keyboard really sucked.
Those dK'Tronics keyboards were, at that time, out of my budget. I remember seeing them in magazine ads, but nobody I knew had one, so it wasn't on my radar. I see, on eBay, those dK'Tronics keyboards are getting more money today than they were back then. Mad.