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Why is the default layout flipped from the Neo Geo CD Pad?
Posted: Thu Dec 16, 2021 3:35 am
by Dinierto
I am genuinely curious and ignorant to the reason for this. Looking at the OEM original control pads, the layout is:
CD
AB
But on a regular controller set up with the SNES layout in the MiSTer controller config, it defaults to this:
DC
BA
Now to make things more confusing of course, the Neo Geo mini pads have their own unusual layout, but it doesn't match the Neo Geo core default either. There are also different community layouts for things like KOF or Metal Slug, from what I'm seeing, but again, I didn't see a correlation there either.
Personally I think I'd default to the original hardware layout if it was my choice (and obviously anybody can change the layout manually after the fact), but I'm curious why the current layout is what it is?
Re: Why is the default layout flipped from the Neo Geo CD Pad?
Posted: Fri Dec 17, 2021 12:41 am
by Drexl
It's probably matching A to A, B to B regardless of position. Obviously that doesn't line up right when A is on the left.
There's a setting in mister.ini to match the buttons based on their position rather than the names:
Code: Select all
; Defines internal joypad mapping from virtual SNES mapping in main to core mapping
; Set to 0 for name mapping (jn) (e.g. A button in SNES core = A button on controller regardless of position on pad)
; Set to 1 for positional mapping (jp) (e.g. A button in SNES core = East button on controller regardless of button name)
gamepad_defaults=0
Re: Why is the default layout flipped from the Neo Geo CD Pad?
Posted: Fri Dec 17, 2021 11:12 pm
by Dinierto
That was a good tip, but mine is set to 1 already apparently
Re: Why is the default layout flipped from the Neo Geo CD Pad?
Posted: Sat Dec 25, 2021 4:53 am
by Newsdee
Dinierto wrote: ↑Fri Dec 17, 2021 11:12 pm
That was a good tip, but mine is set to 1 already apparently
I just checked, and positional mapping is not implemented for the Neogeo core.
Basically this part of the core config string:
should have two versions (jn and jp).
Re: Why is the default layout flipped from the Neo Geo CD Pad?
Posted: Sat Dec 25, 2021 5:01 am
by Dinierto
Newsdee wrote: ↑Sat Dec 25, 2021 4:53 am
Dinierto wrote: ↑Fri Dec 17, 2021 11:12 pm
That was a good tip, but mine is set to 1 already apparently
I just checked, and positional mapping is not implemented for the Neogeo core.
Basically this part of the core config string:
should have two versions (jn and jp).
Interesting, so is this an issue I should bring up on github?
Re: Why is the default layout flipped from the Neo Geo CD Pad?
Posted: Sat Dec 25, 2021 6:57 am
by Newsdee
Dinierto wrote: ↑Sat Dec 25, 2021 5:01 am
Interesting, so is this an issue I should bring up on github?
This is one of the few things I know how to fix
Can you try this binary and let me know if it works for you?
Re: Why is the default layout flipped from the Neo Geo CD Pad?
Posted: Sat Dec 25, 2021 2:00 pm
by SegaMan
Set it correctly in Core menu.
Cost 10sec of time
Re: Why is the default layout flipped from the Neo Geo CD Pad?
Posted: Sat Dec 25, 2021 4:32 pm
by Dinierto
SegaMan wrote: ↑Sat Dec 25, 2021 2:00 pm
Set it correctly in Core menu.
Cost 10sec of time
Do you mean remap the buttons? If you do, I'm aware of how to remap it, I was looking to fix the issue. Why not fix it at the core level if possible?
Re: Why is the default layout flipped from the Neo Geo CD Pad?
Posted: Sat Dec 25, 2021 6:22 pm
by DevilHunterWolf
Dinierto wrote: ↑Sat Dec 25, 2021 4:32 pm
SegaMan wrote: ↑Sat Dec 25, 2021 2:00 pm
Set it correctly in Core menu.
Cost 10sec of time
Do you mean remap the buttons? If you do, I'm aware of how to remap it, I was looking to fix the issue. Why not fix it at the core level if possible?
That's framing it as something to "fix". Neo Geo layout I'm finding out is very much a personal preference. Unless someone is using the arcade layout in the usual straight line, everyone likes to define the buttons in different ways. Sometimes people even remap based on the game; fighting game vs run and gun, as an example. For a 4 button face layout, I personally would put A on the bottom, B on the left, C on the right, and D on the top. Makes for a nice thumb rock for run and gun and keeps the weak attacks on the "bottom" of the 4 buttons and strong attacks on the "top" of the 4 buttons for fighting games. And people using 6 button controllers may really be shaking it up.
Personally, I think anyone that is familiar with the Neo Geo controls will be remapping immediately to their preference. For anyone else coming in more blind to Neo Geo games, I think lining up A and B to A and B on the Nintendo layout makes sense. Keeps in line with the usual accept and cancel buttons, as well. That's why I don't see it as something needing to be "fixed". When even SNK doesn't have a standard layout, I think it's fine if the MiSTer core is doing what makes sense for its platform.
Re: Why is the default layout flipped from the Neo Geo CD Pad?
Posted: Sat Dec 25, 2021 6:34 pm
by Dinierto
DevilHunterWolf wrote: ↑Sat Dec 25, 2021 6:22 pm
Dinierto wrote: ↑Sat Dec 25, 2021 4:32 pm
SegaMan wrote: ↑Sat Dec 25, 2021 2:00 pm
Set it correctly in Core menu.
Cost 10sec of time
Do you mean remap the buttons? If you do, I'm aware of how to remap it, I was looking to fix the issue. Why not fix it at the core level if possible?
That's framing it as something to "fix". Neo Geo layout I'm finding out is very much a personal preference. Unless someone is using the arcade layout in the usual straight line, everyone likes to define the buttons in different ways. Sometimes people even remap based on the game; fighting game vs run and gun, as an example. For a 4 button face layout, I personally would put A on the bottom, B on the left, C on the right, and D on the top. Makes for a nice thumb rock for run and gun and keeps the weak attacks on the "bottom" of the 4 buttons and strong attacks on the "top" of the 4 buttons for fighting games. And people using 6 button controllers may really be shaking it up.
Personally, I think anyone that is familiar with the Neo Geo controls will be remapping immediately to their preference. For anyone else coming in more blind to Neo Geo games, I think lining up A and B to A and B on the Nintendo layout makes sense. Keeps in line with the usual accept and cancel buttons, as well. That's why I don't see it as something needing to be "fixed". When even SNK doesn't have a standard layout, I think it's fine if the MiSTer core is doing what makes sense for its platform.
Yeah, I hear you there, and that makes a lot of sense. I guess my point is- all things being equal (i.e. there are many different layouts that people prefer), why not default to the original OEM layout that came with the consoles? Some people might not like it, but that's true of any layout, and at least that one is what many people grew up with
That's just my line of thinking, it'd be like growing up with the SNES and then the buttons are all jumbled
From a preservation standpoint it seems the most logical choice to me
Re: Why is the default layout flipped from the Neo Geo CD Pad?
Posted: Sat Dec 25, 2021 6:45 pm
by Newsdee
DevilHunterWolf wrote: ↑Sat Dec 25, 2021 6:22 pm
I think it's fine if the MiSTer core is doing what makes sense for its platform.
Positional mapping is a feature of the platform, currently not used in the core. It is relative to a SNES gamepad so mapping to a Neogeo CD controller is the most natural
Has anybody tried my build with gamepad_defaults=1 ?
Re: Why is the default layout flipped from the Neo Geo CD Pad?
Posted: Sat Dec 25, 2021 7:01 pm
by Dinierto
Newsdee wrote: ↑Sat Dec 25, 2021 6:45 pm
DevilHunterWolf wrote: ↑Sat Dec 25, 2021 6:22 pm
I think it's fine if the MiSTer core is doing what makes sense for its platform.
Positional mapping is a feature of the platform, currently not used in the core. It is relative to a SNES gamepad so mapping to a Neogeo CD controller is the most natural
Has anybody tried my build with gamepad_defaults=1 ?
A friend of mine did unsuccessfully but I'll try later, with the holiday my availability will be random
Re: Why is the default layout flipped from the Neo Geo CD Pad?
Posted: Sun Dec 26, 2021 4:03 am
by Dinierto
Newsdee wrote: ↑Sat Dec 25, 2021 6:45 pm
DevilHunterWolf wrote: ↑Sat Dec 25, 2021 6:22 pm
I think it's fine if the MiSTer core is doing what makes sense for its platform.
Positional mapping is a feature of the platform, currently not used in the core. It is relative to a SNES gamepad so mapping to a Neogeo CD controller is the most natural
Has anybody tried my build with gamepad_defaults=1 ?
Just tried it and it works beautifully
